The Improbability of God

The Improbability of God

SirJosephPorter

#241

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 4th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Boy! Dueling Dogma! Isn't this fun?

Cliffy, let us start a fight about dogmas. I will go first.

My dogma is better than your dogma.

Spade

#242

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 4th, 2009

I had a dog ma once. Had seven pups! Beat that, Porter!

SirJosephPorter

#243

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 4th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

I had a dog ma once. Had seven pups! Beat that, Porter!

Well, maybe but can she get you to Heaven? With my dogma, I have a reserved seat in heaven (and my dogma goes one better than the Muslim dogma, it gives me 100 virgins, not the paltry 72 that Muslims get).

MHz

#244

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 4th, 2009

Cliffy, watch how easy it is to pluck that topic right off SJP's tongue .
SJP somebody mentioned doggie-style, what does that mean in your world?

Last edited by MHz; Mar 4th, 2009 at 06:05 PM..

MHz

#245

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 4th, 2009

Every time I go to town
the boys keep kick'n my dog around
makes no difference if he's a hound
the boys sure kick that dog around

Scott Free

#246

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 4th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

Really, I have mistaken Hitchens for Dawkins.
Hitchens or Dawkins all the same.

Sure just like all Muslims are suicide bombing maniacs.

Generalizations are a slippery slope and those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

(Let's see your translator figure that one out lol

)

Scott Free

#247

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

Thank you, Scott Free, for sticking up for us pagans. We are a maligned and misunderstood lot. Except for Tyr! Well, except for Tyr today!

eanassir

#248

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

God allows some to have their hearts hardened so that all prophecy will occur as written. Being gather later is the punishment because that person receives blessings from God later than some. That does not make them less than entirely equal when there are finally gathered.
Here is an incident where the delay in gathering some is for the purpose of teaching another group something about God that they would otherwise be unaware of.

Eze:39:23:
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity:
because they trespassed against me,
therefore hid I my face from them,
and gave them into the hand of their enemies:
so fell they all by the sword.

(((their return from death is as follows)))

Eze:39:26:
After that they have borne their shame,
and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me,
when they dwelt safely in their land,
and none made them afraid.
Eze:39:27:
When I have brought them again from the people,
and gathered them out of their enemies' lands,
and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze:39:28:
Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God,
which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen:
but I have gathered them unto their own land,
and have left none of them any more there.

(((With God something can appear to be lost but it is only put to the side for a little while. )))

God – be exalted – said in the Quran 14: 7 about how He threatened the Children of Israel:

وَإِذْ تَأَذَّنَ رَبُّكُمْ لَئِن شَكَرْتُمْ لأَزِيدَنَّكُمْ وَلَئِن كَفَرْتُمْ إِنَّ عَذَابِي لَشَدِيدٌ

The explanation:
(Behold! your Lord [O Jews] was requested [by your enemies but He did not permit them to fight you; and He said to you]:
"If you are thankful, surely I will increase you [in blessings];
but if you are ungrateful, My punishment is terrible indeed.)

First: So one time, when they were obedient to God and not associating other gods or idols with God Almighty, they prospered and God defended them; so that when their enemies requested God to permit them to fight the Jews, God did not permit them to fight the Jews, and this was a great blessing.
E.g. When the Children of Israel came to Sidon, the king of the Sidonians consulted God should he fight them, and God told him by the consultation: not to fight them but on the contrary to welcome them. As is mentioned in the Book of Numbers.

Second: Another time, when the Jews associated the idols with God, their enemies requested God to fight the Jews, and He permitted them: that was e.g. when Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon conquered them. And this is the meaning of:
(but if you are ungrateful, My punishment is terrible indeed.)

So this aya in the Quran explained what is in the Book of Levites, chapter 26:

quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#A_Call_from_God_to_the_People_of_the_ Bible_

Spade

#249

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free

Great post for a Thor'sDay!

MHz

#250

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Jer:50:23:
How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken!
how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

Eze:32:27:
And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised,
which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war:
and they have laid their swords under their heads,
but their iniquities shall be upon their bones,
though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.

So the sequence seems to be, break the hammer, kill the ones who wear helmets and then follow them past death so their turn to feel terror can begin.

The sins that resulted in exile into Babylon were mostly about killing the prophets God sent to them. (idol worship and such were certainly involved but God was still sending them prophets to bring them back into correct behavior) The final straw for God was the attempted murder of Jeremiah, that is when their exile was determined. (ch:25) Jeremiah escaped death but some before him did not. God never totally released them from exile. All that was ever returned to them was the temple and the city and that had a finite time attached even before it was granted to happen.

All effects of that 1st exile are not totally vanished until Christ is standing in physical possession of the temple and the city and the land and the world. Hard to split as they are one event.

Last edited by MHz; Mar 5th, 2009 at 11:20 AM..

Spade

#251

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

PS
You beat me to it! Too busy shovelling snow! Winter is Hell!

petros

#252

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

It's melting fast here. This AM is rather picturesque as last night was foggy and we had a ***** of a frost.

Spade

#253

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Well. the gods (Had to mention them or I would be accused of being off topic) sent us a blizzard. The snow piles on the drive in the lee of our humble abode! Three feet high and rising!

Last edited by Spade; Mar 5th, 2009 at 11:21 AM..Reason: Clarity

Spade

#254

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

petros

#255

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Just for the hell of it lets look at a couple of god's creations.

eanassir

#256

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Repeated and deleted.

Last edited by eanassir; Mar 5th, 2009 at 12:24 PM..

eanassir

#257

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Prosperity for the god-fearing in this World and the Afterlife

First: Concerning the pious: the monotheists who do not associate the idols with God:

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 83: 18-20

كَلَّا إِنَّ كِتَابَالْأَبْرَارِ لَفِي عِلِّيِّينَ .وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَاعِلِّيُّونَ . كِتَابٌمَّرْقُومٌ ...الخ

The explanation:
(No, [they cannot escape the Fire, but] surely it is inscribed [in the heavenly scriptures] that the pious [shall] be in a high station [in this World and in the Hereafter.]

But can you imagine what this 'high station' is?

A written book, with numbers [: chapter 26, Leviticus])

This is in the Book of Levites, chapter 26:
"3 If you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 And I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
7 And you shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And you shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people."

Second: While about what God prepared for the god-fearing who do not associate with Him; this is in the Quran 83: 20-34

كِتَابٌمَّرْقُومٌ ...الخ

The explanation:
(A written book, with numbers [: chapter 26, Leviticus]
Those brought nigh [to God, in Paradise] are [now] witnessing [this prosperous station.]

Surely, the pious [shall prosper] in the prosperity [of Paradise.]

On couches, looking [to the trees, birds and palaces of Paradise.]

You know, in their faces, the radiance of prosperity.

[As] they are given to drink of a 'pure wine' [and the openings of the bottles thereof are] sealed.
Sealed with musk – so after that let the strivers strive.

And which is mixed [with water] from 'Tasniem' [: a water-fall.]
[Coming from a high] fountain at which do drink those brought nigh [in the highest paradise, and they please themselves with the scene thereof.]

Surely, the sinners used to laugh at the believers.
And whenever they passed by them, used to wink at each other [in mockery.]
And when they returned to their families, they returned blithely.

So this day [of Judgment, it is] the believers [who] do laugh at the unbelievers.
On couches, looking [to the trees, birds and palaces of Paradise.]

Have the unbelievers been rewarded for what [gifts, presents and sacrifices] they had worked [in the life of the World?] [No, they haven't. Actually they have been punished.] )

quranandhebrewbible.t35.com/english2.htm#A_Call_from_God_to_the_People_of_the_ Bible_

Last edited by eanassir; Mar 5th, 2009 at 12:17 PM..

eanassir

#258

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Punishment of the 'deniers and profligate' in this World and the Afterlife

First: Concerning the wrong-doers: the associaters who associate idols (or patrons or Jesus ...etc) with God: in this World.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 83: 7-9

كَلَّا إِنَّ كِتَابَالفُجَّارِ لَفِي سِجِّينٍ .وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَاسِجِّينٌ . كِتَابٌمَّرْقُومٌ ...الخ

The explanation:
(No, [do not decrease the measuring and the weighing; for] surely it is inscribed [in the heavenly scriptures] that the profligate will have a 'hard living' [in the after-death world.]
But can you imagine what this 'hard living' is?
A scripture with numbers [: No. 26 in the Torah: Levites: chapter 26] )

And this is in the Book of Levites, chapter 26

"14 But if you will not hearken to me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And if you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant:
16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you.
18 And if you will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits."

Second: Their punishment in the afterlife:
God – be exalted – said in the Quran 83:10-18

كِتَابٌمَّرْقُومٌ ...الخ

The explanation:
Woe, on that day, to the deniers!
Who deny the Day of Requital.
Which none denies but the transgressor [and] the sinner.
When Our revelations are recited to him, he says: "[These are mere] fables written by the ancients."
No, indeed; but [the unlawful wealth] that they earn has rusted their hearts.
No, [there will be no forgiveness nor mercy for them] but – on that day – they will be veiled from [the mercy of] their Lord.
Then they shall roast in Hell.
Then it will be said [to them]: "This is [the chastisement] that you denied [in the life of the World.]

No, [they cannot escape the Fire, but] surely it is inscribed [in the heavenly scriptures] that the pious [shall] be in a high station [in this World and in the Hereafter.]

man-after-death.t35.com/2.htm#Hell_

eanassir

#259

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Punishment of the 'deniers and profligate' in this World and the Afterlife

First: Concerning the wrong-doers: the associaters who associate idols with God: in this World.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 83: 7-9

كَلَّا إِنَّ كِتَابَالفُجَّارِ لَفِي سِجِّينٍ .وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَاسِجِّينٌ . كِتَابٌمَّرْقُومٌ ...الخ

The explanation:
(No, [do not decrease the measuring and the weighing; for] surely it is inscribed [in the heavenly scriptures] that the profligate will have a 'hard living' [in the after-death world.]
But can you imagine what this 'hard living' is?
A scripture with numbers [: No. 26 in the Torah: Levites: chapter 26] )

And this is in the Book of Levites, chapter 26

"14 But if you will not hearken to me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And if you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant:
16 I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you.
18 And if you will not yet for all this hearken to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits."

Second: Their punishment in the afterlife:
God – be exalted – said in the Quran 83:10-18

كِتَابٌمَّرْقُومٌ ...الخ

The explanation:
(Woe, on that day, to the deniers!
Who deny the Day of Requital.
Which none denies but the transgressor [and] the sinner.
When Our revelations are recited to him, he says: "[These are mere] fables written by the ancients."
No, indeed; but [the unlawful wealth] that they earn has rusted their hearts.
No, [there will be no forgiveness nor mercy for them] but – on that day – they will be veiled from [the mercy of] their Lord.
Then they shall roast in Hell.
Then it will be said [to them]: "This is [the chastisement] that you denied [in the life of the World.]

No, [they cannot escape the Fire, but] surely it is inscribed [in the heavenly scriptures] that the pious [shall] be in a high station [in this World and in the Hereafter.] )

man-after-death.t35.com/2.htm#Hell_

eanassir

#260

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

deleted

Last edited by eanassir; Mar 5th, 2009 at 02:31 PM..

Spade

#261

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

raptured

SirJosephPorter

#262

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

raptured

Spade, the deleted post must have been really a fruity one. It was not deleted because it was repeated (one previous post was deleted because of repetition and the words ‘repeated and deleted’ appear in its place).

So the deleted post must have been really an offensive one.

Anyway, when the rapture does come and all the Fundamentalist Christian crazies are raptured to Heaven, perhaps we ought to work out some sort of deal with God, and ask him to take all the Fundamentalist Muslim crazies as well.

MHz

#263

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

Anyway, when the rapture does come and all the Fundamentalist Christian crazies are raptured to Heaven, perhaps we ought to work out some sort of deal with God, and ask him to take all the Fundamentalist Muslim crazies as well.

Haven't you heard, everybody gets one rapture free, and uh, it is actually the evil ones who are doing the traveling.

M't:24:28:
For wheresoever the carcase is,
there will the eagles be gathered together.

M't:24:39:
And knew not until the flood came,
and took them all away;
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
M't:24:40:
Then shall two be in the field;
the one shall be taken,
and the other left.
M't:24:41:
Two women shall be grinding at the mill;
the one shall be taken, and the other left.

M't:13:41:
The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;

Joe:2:5:
Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap,
like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble,
as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe:2:6:
Before their face the people shall be much pained:
all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe:2:7:
They shall run like mighty men;
they shall climb the wall like men of war;
and they shall march every one on his ways,
and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe:2:8:
Neither shall one thrust another;
they shall walk every one in his path:
and when they fall upon the sword,
they shall not be wounded.
Joe:2:9:
They shall run to and fro in the city;
they shall run upon the wall,
they shall climb up upon the houses;
they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe:2:10:
The earth shall quake before them;
the heavens shall tremble:
the sun and the moon shall be dark,
and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joe:2:11:
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army:
for his camp is very great:
for he is strong that executeth his word:
for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible;
and who can abide it?

And then they melt basically, other than the next 1,000 continuous years without a break of any kind from torment and torture and gnashing of teeth, etc, etc, etc and pain it comes without long-term consequences.

So what may appear to be a rapture of(people outwardly appear close to God they are actually the ones being cleaned out of that house, if that is the fate of the 'righteous' then what about the actual on purpose sinners. I fear their fate will not be any kinder.

Scott Free

#264

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter

Anyway, when the rapture does come and all the Fundamentalist Christian crazies are raptured to Heaven, perhaps we ought to work out some sort of deal with God, and ask him to take all the Fundamentalist Muslim crazies as well.

What a great idea! unfortunately it has one flaw in that there is no god to negotiate with.

Scott Free

#265

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

Haven't you heard, everybody gets one rapture free, and uh, it is actually the evil ones who are doing the traveling.

That's what SirJoseph said: the fundies would be taken away.

MHz

#266

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

That would be a second flaw then, that (who actually goes up into the air) and the mistrake you pointed out.

Spade

#267

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

My gawd, it's hard to sort out the various x-ian myths!

MHz

#268

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

How interesting of a book would it be if there was no sorting to be done. One read and then....nothing....ever

Spade

#269

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

But, brother MHz, it is just one book of many.

I wonder if Benny the Sixteen can help us or is he too busy with the Society of St. Pius X on the far right and the moderate Hans kung on the left? We could email him.

MHz

#270

Re: The Improbability of God

Mar 5th, 2009

Aesop and Ashly Brilliant both have books out that tell their little life lessons in the form of parables. The beauty of writing in that style is that it could be sold as is in many languages. Rather than never being read by one faction of man because of one factor or another another. ie a burrow being the bad person in a short, easy to understand story. Universally men will laugh at a jackass being the ass rather than a 'name' that could apply to any one segment of man that they have affection for.