Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,226 
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 24th, 2008, 07:19 PM
today becomes yesterday as it becomes tomorrow
today becomes yesterday as it becomes tomorrow
Electoral Member
Posts: 856
April 25th, 2008, 12:00 AM
This is my personal idea about this subject: we may view something happened in the past; because it left its effect on the surroundings, like the sound leaves some effect on a recorder.
But I don't think one can go by himself (his body and his soul) to the past or the future; because this will lead to interference in the sequence of events.
I don't say this is something unlawful; if they can go, let them go; but that will be impossible and it is in fact a fallacy.
If I am able to go to the past, and can change the sequence of events; then I should correct every mistake that I did in the past and remove every sin that I sinned; but this is impossible, and the disgrace of the sin will be stuck to me (and to anyone else), eventhough God may forgive that, unless He will conceal all my sins from others. [I derive this last idea from the interpretation of the Quran]
Moreover, we cannot go to the future for the same reason.
In addition to that; if that was possible, then we might see the events of history do change spontaneously; because certainly in the future, people will be more advanced, and in case this idea of crossing the time barrier was true, then we would see people appearing now, when they in fact belong to the future; which has never occurred, and if this happened let them produce the evidence, or it will only be a conjecture.
eanassir
Quoting darkbeaver
If we ignore the speed of light we should be able to leave home ten minutes late for work and arrive five minutes early. I have always found being limited by the speed of light inconvienient.
This is my personal idea about this subject: we may view something happened in the past; because it left its effect on the surroundings, like the sound leaves some effect on a recorder.
But I don't think one can go by himself (his body and his soul) to the past or the future; because this will lead to interference in the sequence of events.
I don't say this is something unlawful; if they can go, let them go; but that will be impossible and it is in fact a fallacy.
If I am able to go to the past, and can change the sequence of events; then I should correct every mistake that I did in the past and remove every sin that I sinned; but this is impossible, and the disgrace of the sin will be stuck to me (and to anyone else), eventhough God may forgive that, unless He will conceal all my sins from others. [I derive this last idea from the interpretation of the Quran]
Moreover, we cannot go to the future for the same reason.
In addition to that; if that was possible, then we might see the events of history do change spontaneously; because certainly in the future, people will be more advanced, and in case this idea of crossing the time barrier was true, then we would see people appearing now, when they in fact belong to the future; which has never occurred, and if this happened let them produce the evidence, or it will only be a conjecture.
eanassir
House Member
Posts: 3,523
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
April 25th, 2008, 01:25 AM
Quoting eanassir
We can't possibly know that. You assume we would know if people from the future were among us. How could we identify them if they were? Unless they're from so far in the future that evolution has made them look physically different, we'd never spot them. Presumably they'd have researched this time period and would show up dressed and groomed appropriately and speaking the local language. They might seem to be a little eccentric because they didn't get all the details right, but eccentricity is pretty common. The only way we'd know they were among us would be if they announced themselves and proved it by telling us with 100% accuracy about certain events in our future but their past. Wouldn't be hard, just list all the winners of the World Series and the Stanley Cup for the next few years, with details of the score in every game, and wait.
... which has never occurred.
Electoral Member
Posts: 857
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
April 25th, 2008, 01:35 AM
Lester
Quoting Dexter Sinister
But if you had that knowledge and capitilized on it by maxing out you credit cards, selling your house and then placing bets all over isn't it possible you could change the future? say they throw a game because some organized crime figuure is terrified of losing his ass, or if you win big and some how used all your money to influence a world event? the butterfly effect comes to mind.
We can't possibly know that. You assume we would know if people from the future were among us. How could we identify them if they were? Unless they're from so far in the future that evolution has made them look physically different, we'd never spot them. Presumably they'd have researched this time period and would show up dressed and groomed appropriately and speaking the local language. They might seem to be a little eccentric because they didn't get all the details right, but eccentricity is pretty common. The only way we'd know they were among us would be if they announced themselves and proved it by telling us with 100% accuracy about certain events in our future but their past. Wouldn't be hard, just list all the winners of the World Series and the Stanley Cup for the next few years, with details of the score in every game, and wait.
Lester
House Member
Posts: 3,523
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
April 25th, 2008, 02:06 AM
If time travelers choose not to announce themselves, which I would certainly do if I were here from the future (I am, by the way...
), we'd never know they're here.
Quoting Lester
Sure, if you had that knowledge, but the fact remains that those of us stuck in the present don't have that knowledge and have no reliable way of identifying people who do unless they choose to announce themselves and prove it. Besides, since we have no certain knowledge of the future we have no way of knowing if it's been changed, and even asking the question suggests that the future is somehow already determined unless somebody with knowledge of a particular future explicitly decides to change it, a thorny philosophical issue that's never been resolved. I'm inclined to think the future is almost infinitely mutable and everything anyone does changes it.
...isn't it possible you could change the future?
If time travelers choose not to announce themselves, which I would certainly do if I were here from the future (I am, by the way...
), we'd never know they're here.
Council Member
Posts: 1,426
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 25th, 2008, 05:51 AM
The trouble with time travel as I see it, is that it presumes there is something for someone from the future present to visit; like the past present, which of coarse, no longer exists. I personally just don't imagine the past as cells in an animation that someone could visit and then they would play from whatever scene a time traveler chose to insert himself/herself into. I do think it is possible for matter to manifest a reality by moving backwards in time, however, I don't think that is exactly what is meant by time travel.
The trouble with time travel as I see it, is that it presumes there is something for someone from the future present to visit; like the past present, which of coarse, no longer exists. I personally just don't imagine the past as cells in an animation that someone could visit and then they would play from whatever scene a time traveler chose to insert himself/herself into. I do think it is possible for matter to manifest a reality by moving backwards in time, however, I don't think that is exactly what is meant by time travel.
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,631
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
April 25th, 2008, 08:12 AM
All we are is Dust in the Wind, Dude.
I could suggest a good way of time travel, but it's illegal for some reason..... someday though.
But think about time as a comet with a long tail..... or perhaps a blank VHS tape continually recording. It's more logical to go into the past where there is something set in time, then to simply jump forward into static on the blank tape.
Then again, it all depends on if you believe in Fate or Destiny already being laid out for you.
There's plenty more I could say on this topic, but I'll just leave it at that for now.
All we are is Dust in the Wind, Dude.
I could suggest a good way of time travel, but it's illegal for some reason..... someday though.
But think about time as a comet with a long tail..... or perhaps a blank VHS tape continually recording. It's more logical to go into the past where there is something set in time, then to simply jump forward into static on the blank tape.
Then again, it all depends on if you believe in Fate or Destiny already being laid out for you.
There's plenty more I could say on this topic, but I'll just leave it at that for now.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
April 25th, 2008, 08:24 AM
All the "past" exists. All the "future" exists.
Isaac Asimov wrote at some length regarding the "future" as have Frank Herbert and others, but a recurrent theme of Asimov's was that if we brought a primitive forward from some time long ago, the technology and many things we take for granted today would appear as magic to that primitive. Similarly, moving forward through time presents the problem of how a primitive species like human beings would deal with situations and events that are beyond this limited understanding.
Going back is easy..... metaphorically....
That's where all the politicians come from...
All the "past" exists. All the "future" exists.
Isaac Asimov wrote at some length regarding the "future" as have Frank Herbert and others, but a recurrent theme of Asimov's was that if we brought a primitive forward from some time long ago, the technology and many things we take for granted today would appear as magic to that primitive. Similarly, moving forward through time presents the problem of how a primitive species like human beings would deal with situations and events that are beyond this limited understanding.
Going back is easy..... metaphorically....
That's where all the politicians come from...
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,631
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
April 25th, 2008, 08:28 AM
"but the fact remains that those of us stuck in the present don't have that knowledge...."
I'll bounce this back to my Comet reference:
^ The tail is history, the centre white area is the present or us if you would like..... and the green area is how far we can predict ahead of ourselves.
We can predict the future to a degree already, although most would considder it trivial in comparison to all-out future predictions.
I have a fork in my hand and a wall socket to the left of me.... my future prediction is that if I shove that fork in there, I'm going to get electricuted..... yet again.... so I won't.... and thus, the course of the future is altered.
I see a kid in class jumping and horsing around on top of their chair...... I predict there's a good chance of them falling and cracking their skull...... then they do.
The US invaded Afghanistan and I predicted before they even stepped foot in the country that within a year they were going to head into Iraq..... then they did.
Are these absolute predictions that couldn't be avoided? Nope..... but based on our comet tail of history that we're aware of and have experienced, we can see a little ahead in the future.... certainly not by leaps and bounds as most would like, but we can.
It's also like speeding down the highway in your car...... you can see a decent distance ahead of you and can make decisions ahead of time to avoid any possible danger, but you can't see 50 km's down the road to notice that car crash you're about to encounter because of that damn deer jumping across the lanes.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
One comment above I'd like to point out:
Sure, if you had that knowledge, but the fact remains that those of us stuck in the present don't have that knowledge and have no reliable way of identifying people who do unless they choose to announce themselves and prove it. Besides, since we have no certain knowledge of the future we have no way of knowing if it's been changed, and even asking the question suggests that the future is somehow already determined unless somebody with knowledge of a particular future explicitly decides to change it, a thorny philosophical issue that's never been resolved. I'm inclined to think the future is almost infinitely mutable and everything anyone does changes it.
If time travelers choose not to announce themselves, which I would certainly do if I were here from the future (I am, by the way...), we'd never know they're here.
If time travelers choose not to announce themselves, which I would certainly do if I were here from the future (I am, by the way...
), we'd never know they're here.
"but the fact remains that those of us stuck in the present don't have that knowledge...."
I'll bounce this back to my Comet reference:
^ The tail is history, the centre white area is the present or us if you would like..... and the green area is how far we can predict ahead of ourselves.
We can predict the future to a degree already, although most would considder it trivial in comparison to all-out future predictions.
I have a fork in my hand and a wall socket to the left of me.... my future prediction is that if I shove that fork in there, I'm going to get electricuted..... yet again.... so I won't.... and thus, the course of the future is altered.
I see a kid in class jumping and horsing around on top of their chair...... I predict there's a good chance of them falling and cracking their skull...... then they do.
The US invaded Afghanistan and I predicted before they even stepped foot in the country that within a year they were going to head into Iraq..... then they did.
Are these absolute predictions that couldn't be avoided? Nope..... but based on our comet tail of history that we're aware of and have experienced, we can see a little ahead in the future.... certainly not by leaps and bounds as most would like, but we can.
It's also like speeding down the highway in your car...... you can see a decent distance ahead of you and can make decisions ahead of time to avoid any possible danger, but you can't see 50 km's down the road to notice that car crash you're about to encounter because of that damn deer jumping across the lanes.
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,631
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
April 25th, 2008, 08:37 AM
To people back then, those things would be miricles and thus Christianity was born.
The End.
Quoting MikeyDB
See I think Jesus Christ was actually someone from the future whom was actually a peuterican named Jesus (Hey'Zeus) Chavez who brough with him all kinds of medical equipment he kept tucked away up in his sleves near his hands, who cured illnesses, made the blind see, could make water into wine with a protable wine kit, and could walk on water, because he knew were the sand bars were during low tide.
All the "past" exists. All the "future" exists.
Isaac Asimov wrote at some length regarding the "future" as have Frank Herbert and others, but a recurrent theme of Asimov's was that if we brought a primitive forward from some time long ago, the technology and many things we take for granted today would appear as magic to that primitive. Similarly, moving forward through time presents the problem of how a primitive species like human beings would deal with situations and events that are beyond this limited understanding.
Isaac Asimov wrote at some length regarding the "future" as have Frank Herbert and others, but a recurrent theme of Asimov's was that if we brought a primitive forward from some time long ago, the technology and many things we take for granted today would appear as magic to that primitive. Similarly, moving forward through time presents the problem of how a primitive species like human beings would deal with situations and events that are beyond this limited understanding.
To people back then, those things would be miricles and thus Christianity was born.
The End.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
April 25th, 2008, 08:41 AM
Praxius
It depends what you're looking for....
If your focus and concentration is on the (mean no disprespect or insult here..
petty little fold in space you'll occupy for that period of consciousness you'd call your existence than yes, "predicting the future" isn't something that's either practical or possible. If however you're thinking about larger slices of space-time I think there are possibilities that prediction of future events and phenomena are achieveable.
Now I'm not too terribly interested in mythology and hocus-pocus, but if we can wrap our minds around very large (call them event-generalizations if you like) we can begin to make some decent predictions about some things....closed systems at least...and only as "closed" a system as one planet can be in a universe of planets and beings....
Praxius
It depends what you're looking for....
If your focus and concentration is on the (mean no disprespect or insult here..
petty little fold in space you'll occupy for that period of consciousness you'd call your existence than yes, "predicting the future" isn't something that's either practical or possible. If however you're thinking about larger slices of space-time I think there are possibilities that prediction of future events and phenomena are achieveable.Now I'm not too terribly interested in mythology and hocus-pocus, but if we can wrap our minds around very large (call them event-generalizations if you like) we can begin to make some decent predictions about some things....closed systems at least...and only as "closed" a system as one planet can be in a universe of planets and beings....
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,631
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
April 25th, 2008, 01:36 PM
The comet might appear to be going in one direction, but due to additional gravity pull from suns, planets.... or even a collision of another unknown comet could easily change the course of the comet and thus, alter all predictions.
Reference back to real life predictions of the future, we can predict weather to a degree ahead of time, but not a year ahead of time.
Someday perhaps we will be able to.... but no matter how much we advance ourselves, we can only predict so far ahead of time before accuracy is pretty much zero...... guess work if you will.... and even if we get good at predicting the future, it's still not going to be 100% due to so many factors to calculate.
And besides, if or once we get to the point where we can track and predict everything that will come in the future, chances are the universe will cease to exists. What would be the point in reading the book if you already know the ending?
Quoting MikeyDB
Well perhaps I didn't explain my comet explination entirely all that well. What I ment by the green glowing area as being what you can predict in the future, I ment in regards to accuracy. The further into the future you attempt to predict, the less accurate that prediction becomes due to a buildup of additional factors to considder.
Praxius
It depends what you're looking for....
If your focus and concentration is on the (mean no disprespect or insult here.. petty little fold in space you'll occupy for that period of consciousness you'd call your existence than yes, "predicting the future" isn't something that's either practical or possible. If however you're thinking about larger slices of space-time I think there are possibilities that prediction of future events and phenomena are achieveable.
Now I'm not too terribly interested in mythology and hocus-pocus, but if we can wrap our minds around very large (call them event-generalizations if you like) we can begin to make some decent predictions about some things....closed systems at least...and only as "closed" a system as one planet can be in a universe of planets and beings....
It depends what you're looking for....
If your focus and concentration is on the (mean no disprespect or insult here..
petty little fold in space you'll occupy for that period of consciousness you'd call your existence than yes, "predicting the future" isn't something that's either practical or possible. If however you're thinking about larger slices of space-time I think there are possibilities that prediction of future events and phenomena are achieveable.Now I'm not too terribly interested in mythology and hocus-pocus, but if we can wrap our minds around very large (call them event-generalizations if you like) we can begin to make some decent predictions about some things....closed systems at least...and only as "closed" a system as one planet can be in a universe of planets and beings....
The comet might appear to be going in one direction, but due to additional gravity pull from suns, planets.... or even a collision of another unknown comet could easily change the course of the comet and thus, alter all predictions.
Reference back to real life predictions of the future, we can predict weather to a degree ahead of time, but not a year ahead of time.
Someday perhaps we will be able to.... but no matter how much we advance ourselves, we can only predict so far ahead of time before accuracy is pretty much zero...... guess work if you will.... and even if we get good at predicting the future, it's still not going to be 100% due to so many factors to calculate.
And besides, if or once we get to the point where we can track and predict everything that will come in the future, chances are the universe will cease to exists. What would be the point in reading the book if you already know the ending?
