More young doctors oppose abortions on ethical grounds

sanctus

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Rising numbers of doctors are refusing to carry out abortions

The NHS abortion service is heading for a crisis because increasing numbers of doctors refuse to carry out terminations, it was claimed.
There has been a big rise in young medics with 'conscientious objections' to abortion.
The increase has been revealed by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.
It says there is evidence of a 'slow but growing problem' of young doctors opting out of abortion training on moral grounds.
Some senior doctors have blamed declining interest on the lack of 'glamour' involved in the work.
This has been dubbed 'dinner party syndrome' where doctors don't want to admit to their friends that they do abortions.
In addition, changes to training schedules and reductions in working hours mean trainee doctors are opting out of a branch of specialist work that may not enhance their career prospects.
RCOG spokesman Kate Guthrie, who is head of abortion services in Hull, said: "You get no thanks for performing abortions, you get spat on. Who admits to friends at a dinner party that they are an abortionist? It is not a sexy area - it is a bog standard area of women's care.
"There is an increasing number of young doctors who are not participating in the training. The college and the Department of Health are really worried."
She said abortion care must become part of core training in a new curriculum being introduced in August, although it should not be compulsory.
The college was not able to produce any figures to back up its claims, however.
But the situation has prompted abortion groups to call for a change in the law which would allow nurses to carry out early surgical and medical abortions - procedures which are technically simple.
A spokesman for Marie Stopes, Britain's biggest private provider of abortions, said this would dramatically increase provision.
Spokesman Tony Kerridge said: "Ninety per cent of terminations take place before 12 weeks when they are simple, low-tech procedures.
"It's not glamorous work for doctors which may partly explain the increasing difficulty in recruitment over the last five or six years, and younger people no longer understand or recall the time when abortion was illegal.
"Our research published in The Lancet shows nurses and paramedics in Vietnam and South Africa do the work extremely successfully, but they are not allowed to here. This must change."
Marie Stopes currently carries out one in three British abortions, with two-thirds funded by NHS contracts. Mr Kerridge said surveys show one in five GPs oppose abortiontion but most do not let it stand in the way of caring for their patients.
Julia Millington of the ProLife Alliance, agreed that doctors are turning away from the work on moral grounds.
She said: "We have been hearing for some time now that young doctors, in particular, do not want to work in this field. Those choosing to go into medicine presumably do so because they want to cure sickness and disease not end the lives of innocent human beings.
"Public and Parliamentary opinion on the abortion issue has shifted in recent years and this is further evidence that the law must be reviewed."
But the British Pregnancy Advisory Service said it was not aware of any documented rise in conscientious objections where a doctor refuses to work in abortion or IVF services on the grounds of moral conviction.
Chief executive Ann Furedi said "The current crop of medical students have not themselves seen women dying slowly and painfully after self -induced and unsafe aborneurosurgeryin the UK- but if they went to the many countries overseas where abortion is still illegal or only available to rich people, they would see this.
"Abortion is an absolutely essential, life-saving part of medical care - it may not be the most glamorous medical speciality on the face of it, compared to stem cell research or - but it is seen as heroic work by the women that it helps."
Dr Kate Paterson, a consultant obstetrician working in abortion care, said: "There are an awful lot of doctors already working helping women to get pregnant in the NHS and in the private IVF sector.
"There are a hell of a lot less who want to help women when they are pregnant and can't cope.
"There is a desperate need for this kind of work and women can be in really extreme situations."
A Department of Health spokesman said "We are aware that a minority of doctors choose to opt out from performing abortions, as they are legally entitled to do.
"However, this is not preventing women from accessing abortion services. The statistics show that the number of abortions being performed remains stable year on year and that more abortions are being performed earlier."
She said the Department of Health would be discussing the issue of training with the college.
 

Zzarchov

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If you can't do your job as a doctor, don't be a doctor. Hand in your lisence and become something else. Same as any other job. Its like going to work on a beef farm and having moral objections to killing cows (perhaps your a buddhist or Hindu and its against your religion). While you may like the rest of your job, feeding and looking after you job, if you can't do your job for moral reasons, then quit. You can't cherry pick the best parts.
What next? Teachers who don't want to teach average or below average students?
 
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Tonington

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Can any MD perform that procedure? Seems it ought to be an operation that the doctor has some training in, so if you don't want to perform that operation, choose a different school of study...
 

Curiosity

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If you can't do your job as a doctor, don't be a doctor. Hand in your lisence and become something else. Same as any other job. Its like going to work on a beef farm and having moral objections to killing cows (perhaps your a buddhist or Hindu and its against your religion). While you may like the rest of your job, feeding and looking after you job, if you can't do your job for moral reasons, then quit. You can't cherry pick the best parts.
What next? Teachers who don't want to teach average or below average students?

Zzarchov

Wow that hit me between the eyes so early in the morning - blammo !! I've never read the topic put this way but you have a great point. I often wonder how much conversation or 'ethical behavior' is simply to please the crowd rather than thought out in reality and practice. Perhaps farther down the line it will be 'poor practice' to perform tubal ligation and vasectomy as well? Where are we going with this?

Perhaps it isn't choice conversation to discuss abortion in social settings? That alone would put a damper on any proclamations. Woo hoo you are on to a new concept here.
 

Curiosity

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Can any MD perform that procedure? Seems it ought to be an operation that the doctor has some training in, so if you don't want to perform that operation, choose a different school of study...

Tonington
Before abortion was legal - people who had never been near a book on medical training performed abortions - made a lot of money doing so - especially the ones who were 'clean' and didn't spread disease to their customers.

I think it is a given any doctor can perform the procedure, probably a nurse, probably a dentist could, probably a chiropractor could, maybe even an EMT - any student who knew the anatomy of that particular area of the body.

I am pleased to announce for all women of the world, those days are over in most societies. I am not advocating abortion - I am advocating healthy choice.
 

sanctus

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If you can't do your job as a doctor, don't be a doctor. Hand in your lisence and become something else. Same as any other job. Its like going to work on a beef farm and having moral objections to killing cows (perhaps your a buddhist or Hindu and its against your religion). While you may like the rest of your job, feeding and looking after you job, if you can't do your job for moral reasons, then quit. You can't cherry pick the best parts.
What next? Teachers who don't want to teach average or below average students?

We have the situation in Canada. In the city I live in the Catholic hospital is allowed NOT to perform legalized murder of unborn babies. I'm sure it is the same elsewhere in the country. This is not a medical issue, but a moral one, for many people.
 

Curiosity

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Sanctus
I honor your belief but you know as well as others here, there are medically necessary abortions - these must not be included in issues of morality unless we are still locked in medieval times which believe 'it is fine to sacrifice the mother's life for the newborn' - even if it fails to thrive or live.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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I'd argue that it's not a new concept at all, rather the issue is how much further the future of medicine and science will be sacrificed and/or abandoned in the name of a group of people who embrace cannibalism as one of their holiest rituals....
The RC church in particular has demonized abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, contraception...everything that would erode their ability to control humanity under the threat of eternal damnation. Just like the war mongers in government, churches teach fear and divissiveness, in the effort to achieve an end that satisfies some long-term goal that may or may not be in the interests of anyone but themselves.
We don't trust government and shouldn't, and we shouldn't trust any belief construct that isn't up to the task. Religion isn't cutting it in the world as a force for good, and hasn't for two thousand years. Instead of being able to demonstrate a record of answering the calamities that befall civilization and exhhibiting evidence that the human impulse to war violence and de-humanizing interaction among the tribes of the world is something the church is capable of addressing instead we are asked to review a record of bloody mayhem and the support of wealth amidst mind-breaking poverty, mind control that satisfies the churches needs to reap the wealth of masses of people encouraged to go forth and multiply without consideration of the impact of that message.
Damn religion as practiced by the priests and holy men of modernity....they have only lies exaggeration and fairy tales to compel humanity to surrener thought to their control. Cannibals eating the very spirit of mankind in the name of an agenda without any substance of any kind.
 

sanctus

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Sanctus
I honor your belief but you know as well as others here, there are medically necessary abortions - these must not be included in issues of morality unless we are still locked in medieval times which believe 'it is fine to sacrifice the mother's life for the newborn' - even if it fails to thrive or live.

I also respect your point of view, but to be honest I am not at all sure where I personally stand on those exceptions. I wish I could say I did, but I just don't know. I know the "official" line, but personally...I'm in the middle with those exceptions.
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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I'd argue that it's not a new concept at all, rather the issue is how much further the future of medicine and science will be sacrificed and/or abandoned in the name of a group of people who embrace cannibalism as one of their holiest rituals....
The RC church in particular has demonized abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, contraception...everything that would erode their ability to control humanity under the threat of eternal damnation. Just like the war mongers in government, churches teach fear and divissiveness, in the effort to achieve an end that satisfies some long-term goal that may or may not be in the interests of anyone but themselves.
We don't trust government and shouldn't, and we shouldn't trust any belief construct that isn't up to the task. Religion isn't cutting it in the world as a force for good, and hasn't for two thousand years. Instead of being able to demonstrate a record of answering the calamities that befall civilization and exhhibiting evidence that the human impulse to war violence and de-humanizing interaction among the tribes of the world is something the church is capable of addressing instead we are asked to review a record of bloody mayhem and the support of wealth amidst mind-breaking poverty, mind control that satisfies the churches needs to reap the wealth of masses of people encouraged to go forth and multiply without consideration of the impact of that message.
Damn religion as practiced by the priests and holy men of modernity....they have only lies exaggeration and fairy tales to compel humanity to surrener thought to their control. Cannibals eating the very spirit of mankind in the name of an agenda without any substance of any kind.


What a load of unadulterated and trite nonsense.
 

MikeyDB

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You are of course entitled to your own opinion of the Roman Catholic church and if you think in isn't trite and nonsensical that's fine with me. You as the spokesperson for god would after all know that he/she approves of the suffering that burderns overpopulated societies..you'd know the comfort of spreading hatred for homosexuals and the appropriateness of the church remaining silent while thousands die in wars of greed. Yes ..quite a shell game you're running.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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I also respect your point of view, but to be honest I am not at all sure where I personally stand on those exceptions. I wish I could say I did, but I just don't know. I know the "official" line, but personally...I'm in the middle with those exceptions.

Dear Sanctus I am in the middle also - for personally I do not agree abortion is the answer - not on religious grounds but on my own observations of women who have had abortion and carry a lifelong emptiness which can affect their future feelings of being complete women. Tough to explain here, but it isn't just a quickie procedure, it is a decision carrying a significant magnitude of afterthought, emotional turmoil and misery for some.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
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Curiosity
When you unfortunately suffered the damage to your lungs, was that in a nation that was hobbled by the belief that re-production was the message of a loving god that despite poverty and suffering and hunger and shame....the only avenue of recourse was to suffer...because some pompous idiot in Rome was playing a shell game with human life and has for centuries?
 

sanctus

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Oct 27, 2006
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You are of course entitled to your own opinion of the Roman Catholic church and if you think in isn't trite and nonsensical that's fine with me. You as the spokesperson for god would after all know that he/she approves of the suffering that burderns overpopulated societies..you'd know the comfort of spreading hatred for homosexuals and the appropriateness of the church remaining silent while thousands die in wars of greed. Yes ..quite a shell game you're running.


You sir, are the master of trite cliches and hate propaganda...
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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You quote the bible.. don't talk to me about cliches. Nor do monuments and cathedrals exist in the middle of poverty to celebrate the propaganda I force on people under threat of eternal damnation.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Mikey

The comparison is moot Mikey - life throws things our way - if we want to fight them and use anger - they win.

It is the one time we are all on our own - you know that - and I like to think it brings some creativity to us having to defeat our restrictions by finding ways we can win or at least overcome.
 

sanctus

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Oct 27, 2006
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You quote the bible.. don't talk to me about cliches. Nor do monuments and cathedrals exist in the middle of poverty to celebrate the propaganda I force on people under threat of eternal damnation.

Of course. You need new material. We've been hearing this same sort of mumbo-jumbo ever since the Reformation.
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
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