Capturing Carbon

#juan

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Kyoto and beyond

Capturing carbon

We have the technology, why aren't we doing it?

Last Updated February 7, 2007

CBC News

Scientists call it carbon sequestration — a big geological word that means putting the gaseous carbon dioxide from fossil fuels back in the ground where it came from, rather than in the atmosphere where it is contributing to global warming.
In the battle to contain climate change, pumping carbon dioxide (CO2) back into old coal seams or natural gas reservoirs has become one of the hot topics among scientific and government planners.
The Bush administration in Washington has just sped up its $2 billion Clean Coal initiative and says it wants a sequestration strategy in place by 2012. As well, the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change touts sequestration as one of the important mitigating factors for climate change and points out that Canada, with its wealth of tapped-out oil and gas wells, provides a natural home.
But the high costs that go along with trapping CO2 at the smokestack, compressing it into pipelines and then shipping it to a disposal site where it can be injected deep into an underground cavern are making energy execs and utility managers nervous.
Source: UN
For a big coal-fired utility that emits 20 million tonnes of CO2 a year, such as Ontario's aging Nanticoke or Alberta's Sundance, a six-unit generating plant that burns 250 rail cars' worth of coal every day, this could mean a $1-billion retrofit, albeit one that would be passed along to consumers over 40 years or so.
Indeed, the arguments for and against sequestration are not unlike those for insulating homes: It's one thing to insist on much higher energy standards for next year's subdivisions (read the next generation of coal-fired power plants), quite another to go in and redo a draughty, old ranch-style bungalow from the 1950s.
It's working now

Still, there are three big capture programs already underway in the world, not to mention scores of more modest pilot projects, including some in Canada that have been on the go since the late 1990s. The big three:
  • Norway's national oil company is stripping one million tonnes a year of CO2 from the natural gas it is mining under the North Sea and re-injecting it back into empty wells.
  • British Petroleum is doing the same with an oil well in Algeria and planning a similar project in California.
  • And a (coal-gasification) utility in Beulah, North Dakota, is shipping approximately 1.5 million tonnes of CO2 each year over 200 kilometres by pipeline to our very own Weyburn, Sask., where it is being re-injected into an old oil field to help with the recovery of new deposits.
Over a 20-year lifetime, each of these projects has the potential to pull the equivalent of roughly five million cars off the road for a year, which is nothing to sneeze at.
But their real beauty is that they show carbon capture can take place across the full range of energy production — from extraction to electricity generation — which in Canada's case accounts for 82 per cent of the greenhouse gases we pump into the environment each year.
"Technically this is really quite feasible," says Malcolm Wilson, an energy expert at the University of Regina and the director of CO2 management at the Energy Innovation Network, a business-government partnership.
What's stopping us, he says, is which industry "is willing to go first" — in the process probably driving up its costs more than a competitor's.
Too much geography

Canada is particularly suited for carbon sequestration, the UN's International Energy Agency has noted. Our theoretical deposit sites are enough for 1,300 billion tonnes of CO2, which is well over a century's worth.
Most of these sites are in the Western Canadian sedimentary basin, home to the oil patch. But as the Norwegians are demonstrating, offshore injection is also a live option.
Would carbon capture work in Alberta's tar sands, home to $100 billion in anticipated energy development? Yes, says Wilson, but the corporate impact would be uneven.
Older tar sands developers such as Syncrude and Suncor use an extraction technology with a particularly pure stream of CO2, which would make it more economical for them than their competitors to separate that particular greenhouse gas from other by-products. (This assumes, of course, that all tar sands operators would be forced by some kind of climate-change regulation to cap their GHG emissions at similar rates.)
Would the techniques work in Canada's 21 coal-fired generating plants, which together account for 129 million tonnes (17 per cent) of the country's GHG emissions a year? Same answer.
Not only does the cost vary considerably depending on the type of coal or technique (coal gasification vs. simple burning) used, but geography enters the equation as well.
Studies by the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board have noted that the province's big coal utilities are ideally sited near potential CO2 disposal sites. The four equivalent utilities in Ontario would probably have to run CO2 pipelines into the U.S. to find appropriately deep deposit sites (typically a kilometre or more below the surface).
In the grand Canadian scheme it may not matter much if Alberta has a relative CO2 disposal advantage over Ontario (which has more cleaner energy options in hydro and nuclear it can turn to).
But if Ottawa is to enforce some kind of CO2 containment scheme, these kinds of geographically dictated costs could have a huge impact on smaller provinces or on those with high energy-using exporters, like a steel mill, where a 10 to 40 per cent increase in the electricity bill (depending on the age and type of plant that's being retrofitted) could make the difference between whether a prime employer stays put or relocates to sunnier climes.
Tomorrow's job, or today's?

We've heard all these arguments before, of course, during the acid rain debates and in the acrimony over mercury and other pollutants, utilities said they couldn't afford to put on scrubbers to contain the noxious chemicals going up their flues — particularly if our American competitors weren't doing this at the same time.
Carbon dioxide is the last of the untrapped combustion gases "and the reason there is so much research going on right now," says Pete McGrail, one of the top carbon scientists at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Wash., is that the processes for conventional coal plants are still very expensive. Capture and sequestration can add as much as 40 per cent to the cost of electricity at the plant gate, he says.
These costs come down considerably, by more than half, when you talk tomorrow's technology — coal gasification — and particularly when you site the plant near an appropriate injection seam to sequester the unwanted CO2.
That's starting to happen, McGrail says. The U.S. government is sponsoring a clean coal initiative called FuturGen to have a totally GHG-free power plant within the next decade, and U.S. utilities are beginning to take underground storage into consideration when they propose new plants.
"The bottom line is that we can get to stabilization of atmospheric CO2 concentrations and we can do that far cheaper and with far less economic impact in both the developed and developing world if we were to deploy large-scale captures of CO2," says McGrail.
The U.S., of course, has the luxury of not being a signatory to Kyoto: It can think in terms of 50- and 100-year timelines and of beginning a carbon clampdown in a decade or so when the new technology is fully explored.
From a Canadian policy point of view — the dilemma facing a likely election-bound Stephen Harper — can you just let the future take care of itself?
The cost of storing carbon

According to the UN's energy and climate experts, the cost of capturing CO2 is between $25 US and $60 US a tonne for conventional coal-fired plants. For the next generation what are called combined cycle gasification coal plants, of which there are only a handful in the world, the cost comes down to $25 US to $40 US a tonne.
These are from studies made about two years ago and some experts say costs have come down since. So these same figures might well be applied in Canadian currency.
For consumers, says Wilson, this would translate into something like a 20 per cent increase in your home electricity bill, given the way these bills are blended and how costs are amortized over time.
But for the utilities or energy companies that would have to put out the capital outlay for capture technology, these are big amounts to bite off.
The production and use of fossil fuels for electricity in this country accounts for 82 per cent, or approximately 622 million tonnes, of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions each year. Most of that is CO2.
At the low end of $25 a tonne, that would be a $15.5-billion outlay. At $60 a tonne, you're looking at a staggering $37-billion capital expense.
Of course, Canadian industry doesn't have to abate every bit of carbon emanating from its smokestacks. To get down to the Kyoto target of 572 million tonnes of emissions from the current 758 level, Canada only has to capture and sequester, for example, 186 million tonnes.
Assume, for the moment, that all of this falls on the shoulders of the energy industry and fossil fuel-burning power utilities.
At $25 a tonne, the cost is a much more manageable $4.6 billion, but the trick would be finding the appropriate targets, selected from among different companies or utilities in different sectors and provinces, to get the most bang for your buck. That would be a real Made-in-Canada solution.
 

Tonington

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Very interesting. $4.6 Billion, close to the amount that the GST reduction is worth.
 

#juan

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My take is: If we have the technology, we should get at it as soon as we can. Put that GST reduction back, or start a new tax that raises whatever money is needed and just do it.
 

Tonington

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Absolutely. Hell, I wonder if the cost per tonne works out so that perhaps nations buying credits from us would be profitable.
 

CDNBear

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I like the idea, but unlike juan, not all of us can afford to have the government dig deeper in our pockets.

So why don't we cut some more governmental largess, and use that to support it, or perhaps we could put a tax on the retired, or cut CPP.
 

#juan

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I like the idea, but unlike juan, not all of us can afford to have the government dig deeper in our pockets.

So why don't we cut some more governmental largess, and use that to support it, or perhaps we could put a tax on the retired, or cut CPP.

I would rather not pay any tax but some things we need. Providing a decent life for our children and grandchildren, and their children is one of those things. If we sit around worrying about the cost, nothing will get done.

I assume, ""put a tax on the retired, or cut CPP" was a joke. If it isn't, it should be.

I will gladly pay my share of increased income tax to get this done because it is worth it
 

CDNBear

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I would rather not pay any tax but some things we need. Providing a decent life for our children and grandchildren, and their children is one of those things. If we sit around worrying about the cost, nothing will get done.

I assume, ""put a tax on the retired, or cut CPP" was a joke. If it isn't, it should be.

I will gladly pay my share of increased income tax to get this done because it is worth it
You bet it was a joke. I'm under the impression, you're retired, so I was just being a shyte, lol!!!

I agree in the phylosophy of "by any means necessary" on this issue, but I also feel that the government isn't going to tighten its belt to do it. It's going to be the little guy, the middle class that bears the burden for all. I have broad shoulders and a strong back, but how much weight must we in the blue collar crowd, be forced to bear?
 

Vicious

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Very interesting. $4.6 Billion, close to the amount that the GST reduction is worth.

Take the total amount you spent multiply by 1% and make the cheque out to the Government of Canada. I'm sure you are not the only one who feels this way (Juan has made similar noise) so if all of you send in your money this problem will be solved in a few weeks.
 

Tonington

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Unlikely. I'm a university student. Most university students I know would gladly have that 1% put on this portfolio, but I suspect our 1% is much lower than the average.
 

#juan

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You bet it was a joke. I'm under the impression, you're retired, so I was just being a shyte, lol!!!

I agree in the phylosophy of "by any means necessary" on this issue, but I also feel that the government isn't going to tighten its belt to do it. It's going to be the little guy, the middle class that bears the burden for all. I have broad shoulders and a strong back, but how much weight must we in the blue collar crowd, be forced to bear?

I place myself in that same "middle class". I am not rich, I had a good financial manager...my wife.

Who pays for the bulk of everything? The middle class of course. The same class that does most of the worrying about these things.

The poor worry about more basic things..food, shelter, etc. while the rich have people to worry for them...Joking...:)
 

Vicious

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Unlikely. I'm a university student. Most university students I know would gladly have that 1% put on this portfolio, but I suspect our 1% is much lower than the average.

If you are not willing to lead the charge then why did you suggest the GST tax break would be better spent on the environment. Really what you should have said is that you prefer other people to be forced to spend their GST tax break on the environment.
 

Tonington

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If you are not willing to lead the charge then why did you suggest the GST tax break would be better spent on the environment. Really what you should have said is that you prefer other people to be forced to spend their GST tax break on the environment.

Now don't go putting words in my mouth. I said my 1% and those of my fellow students wouldn't be enough. I only added the comment about the GST rebate because our fearless leader says it is not feasible (reducing emissions under Kyoto), and here the low end of the economic costs is roughly equal to his GST cut, which I will argue was a political move and not in the best interests of the majority of Canadians.

My financial situation as it is doesn't allow me to "lead" in that way. I do however talk to an awful lot of people about this, including writing editorial columns in my school paper, I've donated money to many organizations, though they are meagre.
 
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Vicious

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I give you a hard time T but I do respect your opinions.

I think our fearless leader still has an issue with the Kyoto accord and it's proposal for buying carbon credits. That is the part that is not feasible. If the money stays in Canada, then these types of things are feasible over a number of years.

I wonder if we started today how many of these carbon sequestration sites could be working in 5 years. Do you think they are more or less difficult to build than an office building? Or a hydro dam? Do they require any environmental impact studies?

I think it's easy to say that these things can be built and operating quickly but when you sit down to do it you may find that their are a number of time consuming hurdles to jump before they can come online.
 

Tonington

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If anyone asks me I won't deny that Kyoto has flaws. I feel that Harper is only using the flaws as an excuse to do very little. Then we get to see on the news the red faced politicians blaming each other, still accomplishing nothing, except perhaps to heat the house of commons with their own emissions.

5 years, 10 years, all of it is better than waiting 10 years to get started? That's really the biggest issue I have.
 

#juan

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From what I've read, the sites for injecting CO2 into deep underground strata would be similar to drilling an oil well. CO2 can be separated from the smoke stacks of coal fired plants fairly easily. It doesn't look like rocket science....I'll do a bit of research.
 

CDNBear

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5 years, 10 years, all of it is better than waiting 10 years to get started? That's really the biggest issue I have.
This is my biggest issue with the Canadian Governement.

Here are two scenerios...
Scenerio 1, I wanted a new mobile welder...

I get a bit of cash in my pocket one day, enough to buy a new deisel welder, I've had my eye on for awhile. One that will turn a profit in no time. It can facilitate two different types of welding in the field, this is a good welder. But I have never seen it run, but I have read all the lit.

I call the local distributor/sales office. A sales man invites me to a site that has one working in an industrial setting. I watch, I ask the guys using it questions, I ask the boss questions. I get good feed back.

At this point, I have summized I like it, it is from a reputable manufacturer, it has a great warranty. IMHO, it is great.

I turn to the salesmen and say, "how soon can I get one?". He says tomorrow. It's in the back of my big truck now. Took me a total of two weeks to accomplish and it only took a few months to pay for itself.

Now scenerio two. The government wants green technology...

They find Sweden has a manufacturer.

They visit on a junket, they drag along all their staff and families at our expense. They visit every land mark and point of Swedish interest. Pose for every photo op they can.

They wine and dine, they get wined and dined.

They talk a little with the manufacturer.

They tour a plant using the technology.

They have no idea what they're looking at, but it makes them look productive as they smile for the cameras.

They then come home and enter into "meaningful" debate on the technology in question.

They ponder buying the rights and producing the technology here, the ponder how they can re-invent it and make it truly Canadaian(I suggest painting a F**KING beaver on it, it's cheaper).

They start a commision on the accusition of said technology and hire or appoint everyone that has ever done them a favour to over seeit.

They inturn hire a staff, find and secure office space, furnish it and begin a new bureaucracy.

They begin environmental studies of their own, using an environmentall assestment groupo that donated heavily to their campaign. The study takes years.

In the interim, the new bureaucracy spend money moving to bigger digs, and refurnishing the new space, as their offices grew with new staff to handle the paper work created by the needless studies.

The buget needs to be increased, so as to supplyu them with enough capital to take primiers out to luncheons and dinners, as well as local municipal leaders. In an attempt to make it look like they're trying to woo them into allowing them to build the technology in their neck of the woods.

They start another commision to assess whether or not we should buy the technology whole or the rights and build it ourselves, again.

and so on. I can't type any more of this scenerio, I don't have the stamina of the political bureaucrat.
 
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Vicious

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If anyone asks me I won't deny that Kyoto has flaws. I feel that Harper is only using the flaws as an excuse to do very little. Then we get to see on the news the red faced politicians blaming each other, still accomplishing nothing, except perhaps to heat the house of commons with their own emissions.

5 years, 10 years, all of it is better than waiting 10 years to get started? That's really the biggest issue I have.

I'm of two minds on the whole thing myself. On one hand I think we should do what we can to limit pollution and do our part to address the problem of greenhouse gases; on the other hand I find it difficult to jump into action spending billions of dollars to change things with the hopes of showing tangible results in an estimate 500 - 1000 years. I'd bet that in the course of the first 100-200 years science will change direction a number of times. I can almost hear the laughter. "Those idiots back in 2007 thought they could solve this problem by stuffing the CO2 back in the ground, what a bunch of fools. But then the didn't have the knowledge we have today."

I guess we do the best we can at any one point in time.

I do however find it annoying that taxpayers always look to the politicians to solve the problems. As if they are the only people with the power to do anything. There was a news item a few days ago about 'off-setting' the idea of paying for your environmental sins by donating the appropriate amount of money to a group that funds green energy projects. This is way too touchy-feely-granola-tree-hugger for me.But an interesting idea none the less. But at least these people are doing it without waiting for the government to provide funding (although it wouldn't surprise me if it was). In the same news item Mountain Equipment Co-Op was complaining about a program that was recently cut that provided money to business to build green buildings. They showed off the straw bale insulation in one wall and the inverted ceiling that pushed the heat back down to the lower part of the store. I kept thinking that if they thought it was so important to do why would they only do it if the government paid for it. Seemed a bit hypocritcal to me.
 
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eh1eh

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From what I've read, the sites for injecting CO2 into deep underground strata would be similar to drilling an oil well. CO2 can be separated from the smoke stacks of coal fired plants fairly easily. It doesn't look like rocket science....I'll do a bit of research.

This is an interesting development I had never heard of. It seems that it is quite fesable at least regionally but in the bit of research I was able to do today I didn't come across anything about the long term effects. Like , does the co2 leach out in time. It is lighter than our atmosphere,no? Landfills were great for a few centruries and this sounds a bit like co2 landfill.
Any more info would be welcome.
I still have a little trouble beleiving the US gov. is so interested. Guess that's a good sign.
 

Tonington

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Good points Bear and Vicious

Certainly the individual can make changes. Theres a number of things we can do, but they will only take us so far. If we had more choices, ie the services we pay for, that would be totally different. People like LGilbert who sell their stock in dirty energy and invest in green technology are helping.

To really make a concerted effort we need industry cooperation with consumer changes. It can't happen without both sides of the coin. So what does that leave us for choices? Elect a new government? Can we trust any party to do the right thing? What the hell is the right thing? My ideas are probably very different than many other peoples ideas. I know one thing for certain, I don't trust a party that swung around on this issue recently, and admits it's impossible every chance they get. I don't know that the alternatives are any better.

Sometimes I think a dictator might be better, elected parties know they have a certain time in power and they're golden until the election time comes, as a dictator you could piss off your civilians at anytime and they'd can your @ss in a messy coup.

Juan, I found a good article on the sequestration. The CO2 is compressed at the plant, and pumped down into saline aquifers. The porous rock is being competed for by the salt water and the carbon dioxide, what ends up happeneing is the rock has an affinity for the salt water, and ends up trapping the carbon dioxide in the pores.heres the link