Lethal Atlantic salmon virus found on the West Coast


bill barilko
Avatar
#91
Another development that comes as no surprise to those of us who regard Salmon feedlots as biological and environmental abominations-the Norwegians appear to have DFO in their pocket.Note that feedlots have been instrumental in the destruction of Norwegian Salmon stocks

Government email makes waves at salmon inquiry

A government email describing a potentially lethal fish virus as a public relations problem has caused a stir at a federal inquiry in Vancouver.

The federally appointed Cohen Commission was called two years ago to examine what caused the 2009 collapse of the Fraser River sockeye.

The suggestion that an influenza-like virus had penetrated B.C. waters came just as the 21-month inquiry was wrapping up, prompting the commissioner to hold three more days of hearings.

On Friday, the federal inquiry heard from an expert in infectious salmon anemia (ISA) who detected the virus in a handful of B.C. fish earlier this year, setting off a chain of alarm bells throughout the government and the West Coast salmon industry.

Fred Kibenge, who runs a prestigious lab on the East Coast, detected the virus in two of 48 sockeye smolts, and the results of his work were widely publicized in October.

The ISA virus has infected and killed millions of fish in Chile, and is believed to have originated in Norway where its own stocks were devastated.

'Turning the PR tide'
The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) immediately set about retesting Kibenge's samples, and told the media several weeks later they had found no evidence of the virus.

When news media made that the headline the next day, officials celebrated in a private email that has now been made public.

"It is clear that we are turning the PR tide in our favour, and this is because of the very successful performance of our spokes at the tech briefing," CFIA B.C. manager Joseph Beres wrote.

"One battle is won, now we have to nail the surveillance piece, and we will win the war, also."

Lawyer Don Rosenbloom, who represents two groups of commercial fishermen at the inquiry, isn't buying it.

"One gets the impression they see themselves at war with parties that are pursuing the best interest of the public," he said. "I think it's ridiculous."

While food inspection managers touted the results of their tests, Fisheries and Oceans officials testified the samples they used were so degraded, the results were unreliable.

Discrediting scientists
Kibenge and another Canadian scientist also told the federal inquiry they feared their reputations were being threatened after discovering signs of ISA in B.C. salmon.

The revelation triggered an assessment of Kibenge's independent lab at the University of Prince Edward Island by inspectors from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. It's one of only two such labs for the virus in the world.

Kibenge told the federal commission in Vancouver on Friday that the way officials behaved led him to believe they were aiming to discredit his work.

"Based on the questioning I got, I sensed that the interest here was to confirm my result was the result of contamination," he said while under cross-examination.

"The second point was that probably I was doing shoddy science."

In the past several weeks, additional research has surfaced that potentially identifies the virus' presence as far back as 2002.

'Most feared threat to aquaculture'
At the inquiry, Kibenge said he felt he was being pressured, even though he considered his science to be "above question."

Sockeye salmon waiting for access to spawning grounds in Scotch Creek, British Columbia. (Matt Casselman)
"Because aquaculture is a business, of course, the virus or the pathogen ... is a problem," he said. "As far as I know, the spread of diseases is the most feared threat to aquaculture."

But in later testimony, Fisheries official Peter Wright, who manages the national aquatic animal health laboratory system, said the assessment wasn't seeking to discredit Kibenge.

He said its goal was to figure out why Kibenge's test results came up positive when examination of the same fish in the government's own lab did not.

During an earlier hearing, a second scientist who works in a lab based in Nanaimo, B.C., was questioned about her own experiences with federal officials.

Findings investigated
Molecular geneticist Kristi Miller, who runs a research lab for the Fisheries Department in Nanaimo, B.C., told the commission on Thursday she has been "alienated" within the department.

She said that began in late November when she revealed to superiors she, too, had detected the virus in B.C. salmon.

On Thursday, a lawyer for the commission asked a panel of three government officials whether Miller's findings are a "game-changer."

No, it just requires further investigation, was the answer from Stephen Stephen, the director to whom Miller reported her findings.

"Although it may have merit," added his colleague Wright, as he pointed out Miller is using a different testing technique. "It needs to be proven."

Kim Klotins, who was appearing on behalf of the food inspection agency, added the agency has already begun a process of investigating Miller's findings. She said staff have run initial tests, which did not corroborate the results.

The virus found was 95 per cent similar to its European strain, Miller said. A North American strain has previously been detected in Atlantic Canada.

CFIA seizes samples
Miller also noted yet another researcher, Prof. Rick Routledge of Simon Fraser University, came under scrutiny after he made Kibenge's initial results public. Routledge had collected the fish and sent them to the P.E.I. lab for testing.

She said the CFIA removed all samples from Routledge's freezer, meaning his work could not continue.

She said Stephen told her she shouldn't conduct research if she didn't understand its potential "ramifications."

That, along with what happened to Routledge's samples, caused her to feel "some level of intimidation," she told the commission.

Miller's lab is funded by the government to conduct research on fish pathogens. She found the evidence of infectious salmon anaemia in the course of that work.

Evidence of ISA dates back 25 years
Miller has told the inquiry she's not clear whether the virus she discovered causes disease, but she noted there appeared to be some signs of damage in the fish.

But that virus isn't her greatest concern, she said.

She testified she has also found signs of another virus unknown in Canadian fish that causes a condition called heart and skeletal muscle inflammation. She said those results from migrating wild sockeye salmon came back in early testing, and have not yet been shared with officials or been made public.

Kibenge and Miller are among four expert fish scientists who have told the inquiry there is varying evidence the ISA virus may be carried in B.C. salmon, with some findings dating back 25 years.

The scientists say more research is required to know whether it could be a health risk for wild Pacific salmon.

The inquiry's final report is due by the end of June.
 
taxslave
Avatar
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

Another development that comes as no surprise to those of us who regard Salmon feedlots as biological and environmental abominations-the Norwegians appear to have DFO in their pocket.Note that feedlots have been instrumental in the destruction of Norwegian Salmon stocks

Government email makes waves at salmon inquiry

A government email describing a potentially lethal fish virus as a public relations problem has caused a stir at a federal inquiry in Vancouver.

The federally appointed Cohen Commission was called two years ago to examine what caused the 2009 collapse of the Fraser River sockeye.

The suggestion that an influenza-like virus had penetrated B.C. waters came just as the 21-month inquiry was wrapping up, prompting the commissioner to hold three more days of hearings.

On Friday, the federal inquiry heard from an expert in infectious salmon anemia (ISA) who detected the virus in a handful of B.C. fish earlier this year, setting off a chain of alarm bells throughout the government and the West Coast salmon industry.

Fred Kibenge, who runs a prestigious lab on the East Coast, detected the virus in two of 48 sockeye smolts, and the results of his work were widely publicized in October.

The ISA virus has infected and killed millions of fish in Chile, and is believed to have originated in Norway where its own stocks were devastated.

'Turning the PR tide'
The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) immediately set about retesting Kibenge's samples, and told the media several weeks later they had found no evidence of the virus.

When news media made that the headline the next day, officials celebrated in a private email that has now been made public.

"It is clear that we are turning the PR tide in our favour, and this is because of the very successful performance of our spokes at the tech briefing," CFIA B.C. manager Joseph Beres wrote.

"One battle is won, now we have to nail the surveillance piece, and we will win the war, also."

Lawyer Don Rosenbloom, who represents two groups of commercial fishermen at the inquiry, isn't buying it.

"One gets the impression they see themselves at war with parties that are pursuing the best interest of the public," he said. "I think it's ridiculous."

While food inspection managers touted the results of their tests, Fisheries and Oceans officials testified the samples they used were so degraded, the results were unreliable.

Discrediting scientists
Kibenge and another Canadian scientist also told the federal inquiry they feared their reputations were being threatened after discovering signs of ISA in B.C. salmon.

The revelation triggered an assessment of Kibenge's independent lab at the University of Prince Edward Island by inspectors from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. It's one of only two such labs for the virus in the world.

Kibenge told the federal commission in Vancouver on Friday that the way officials behaved led him to believe they were aiming to discredit his work.

"Based on the questioning I got, I sensed that the interest here was to confirm my result was the result of contamination," he said while under cross-examination.

"The second point was that probably I was doing shoddy science."

In the past several weeks, additional research has surfaced that potentially identifies the virus' presence as far back as 2002.

'Most feared threat to aquaculture'
At the inquiry, Kibenge said he felt he was being pressured, even though he considered his science to be "above question."

Sockeye salmon waiting for access to spawning grounds in Scotch Creek, British Columbia. (Matt Casselman)
"Because aquaculture is a business, of course, the virus or the pathogen ... is a problem," he said. "As far as I know, the spread of diseases is the most feared threat to aquaculture."

But in later testimony, Fisheries official Peter Wright, who manages the national aquatic animal health laboratory system, said the assessment wasn't seeking to discredit Kibenge.

He said its goal was to figure out why Kibenge's test results came up positive when examination of the same fish in the government's own lab did not.

During an earlier hearing, a second scientist who works in a lab based in Nanaimo, B.C., was questioned about her own experiences with federal officials.

Findings investigated
Molecular geneticist Kristi Miller, who runs a research lab for the Fisheries Department in Nanaimo, B.C., told the commission on Thursday she has been "alienated" within the department.

She said that began in late November when she revealed to superiors she, too, had detected the virus in B.C. salmon.

On Thursday, a lawyer for the commission asked a panel of three government officials whether Miller's findings are a "game-changer."

No, it just requires further investigation, was the answer from Stephen Stephen, the director to whom Miller reported her findings.

"Although it may have merit," added his colleague Wright, as he pointed out Miller is using a different testing technique. "It needs to be proven."

Kim Klotins, who was appearing on behalf of the food inspection agency, added the agency has already begun a process of investigating Miller's findings. She said staff have run initial tests, which did not corroborate the results.

The virus found was 95 per cent similar to its European strain, Miller said. A North American strain has previously been detected in Atlantic Canada.

CFIA seizes samples
Miller also noted yet another researcher, Prof. Rick Routledge of Simon Fraser University, came under scrutiny after he made Kibenge's initial results public. Routledge had collected the fish and sent them to the P.E.I. lab for testing.

She said the CFIA removed all samples from Routledge's freezer, meaning his work could not continue.

She said Stephen told her she shouldn't conduct research if she didn't understand its potential "ramifications."

That, along with what happened to Routledge's samples, caused her to feel "some level of intimidation," she told the commission.

Miller's lab is funded by the government to conduct research on fish pathogens. She found the evidence of infectious salmon anaemia in the course of that work.

Evidence of ISA dates back 25 years
Miller has told the inquiry she's not clear whether the virus she discovered causes disease, but she noted there appeared to be some signs of damage in the fish.

But that virus isn't her greatest concern, she said.

She testified she has also found signs of another virus unknown in Canadian fish that causes a condition called heart and skeletal muscle inflammation. She said those results from migrating wild sockeye salmon came back in early testing, and have not yet been shared with officials or been made public.

Kibenge and Miller are among four expert fish scientists who have told the inquiry there is varying evidence the ISA virus may be carried in B.C. salmon, with some findings dating back 25 years.

The scientists say more research is required to know whether it could be a health risk for wild Pacific salmon.

The inquiry's final report is due by the end of June.

And your point? Or do you just cut & paste news articles written by journalists that have even less understanding of science than you do??
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#93
Quote:

And your point?


My point-which you seem to have missed in your rush to post yet another nasty waspish waste of bandwidth-is that foreign multinationals seem to have co-opted a Federal Government Department-the same department that is charged with the responsibility for keeping Canada's fisheries resources from egregious harm.

Why you refuse to see the harm is your own issue-the fact that the harm exists is just that FACT.
 
petros
#94
Mmmmm pickerel.
 
taxslave
Avatar
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

My point-which you seem to have missed in your rush to post yet another nasty waspish waste of bandwidth-is that foreign multinationals seem to have co-opted a Federal Government Department-the same department that is charged with the responsibility for keeping Canada's fisheries resources from egregious harm.

Why you refuse to see the harm is your own issue-the fact that the harm exists is just that FACT.

Read your own cut & paste. There is no proven harm just the potential. Big difference. But don't let facts stand in the way of your anti fish farm rhetoric.
 
Tonington
Avatar
+2
#96
There's not even proof positive that the ISA virus is in BC...they can't grow anything in cell culture...if there was virus in the samples it would grow in any number of cell lines available, like SHK (salmon head kidney) or CHSE (Chinook salmon embryo), both are salmon cell lines commonly used to culture the virus.

Even if it is in fact a virus, the fact that it doesn't grow in any established ISA protocols, let alone produce any cytopathic effects in cell culture, means it's not likely to be the same virus at all.

Seriously, if you can't infect enriched cells growing in a culture media that is deigned to be optimal for viral infection, then how the heck does anyone expect there to be a virus there capable of catastrophe? Does not compute...
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Mmmmm pickerel.

You must mean Walleye (Sander vitreus)-and Yes it is the most delicious freshwater fish I've ever tasted-and that's saying a lot.

It's good to see that the nattering nabobs of filthy lucre ridden science haven't managed to screw that resource up yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Speaking of filthy lucre I wonder who's on the take here-Canadian gubmint is in no way immune to the appeal of envelopes o' cash and the Norwegians have plenty to spread around.

A cynical person could say the feedlot apology industry are braying harder than ever-not only is their iron rice bowl starting to show cracks but non industry types-rank strangers as it were-are being brought in to feed the flames of disinformation!

Tomorrow AM look for 'informed comment' from 'knowledgeable people' on the net as those grey drones shuffle into their drear little offices and once again start to throw sh!t-hoping against hope that some will stick to someone somewhere-a classic description of sad little men.
 
Tonington
Avatar
+1
#98
Disinformation? Like claiming ISA is in BC, when it hasn't actually been confirmed? False positives can be from improper quality control of samples or even some other nucleotide from a body other than the organism the PCR test is developed for.

PCR isn't even the gold standard. Do you know what a gold standard is? It's the one test that is the best available diagnostic. In some cases there is no best available test.

Anti-farm activists are pro at spreading disinformation...
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Disinformation?...Anti-farm activists are pro at spreading disinformation...

You're starting to sound rather nervous-as though you were in the middle of an ice covered lake in spring-deep cracks were showing all around you and it was a long walk to shore.....

Note that I haven't accused any feed lot whoar/scientist of taking dirty money-they don't need to since they are already bought & paid for-and for a pittance at that.
 
taxslave
Avatar
+1
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

You're starting to sound rather nervous-as though you were in the middle of an ice covered lake in spring-deep cracks were showing all around you and it was a long walk to shore.....

Note that I haven't accused any feed lot whoar/scientist of taking dirty money-they don't need to since they are already bought & paid for-and for a pittance at that.

How about telling us which environmental group you are a paid shill for? Or are you blind enough to do it for free?
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

How about telling us which environmental group you are a paid shill for? Or are you blind enough to do it for free?

I have volunteered with various conservation groups in BC for decades.

My work is 100% unpaid in fact I have shelled out constantly to defend this gorgeous place from those who would destroy it all for a few pieces of silver.

Unlike those who have money as their god (we know who you are) I actually care about the future.
 
Tonington
Avatar
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

You're starting to sound rather nervous

Your perception, which we can all see is far off from reality. I am concerned about the future, which is precisely why I and folks like myself want to know just what exactly are these PCR tests finding. Folks like yourself seem to need very weak evidence for justification of any course of action. Far from informed.

Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

I have volunteered with various conservation groups in BC for decades.

Doing what?
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#103
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Your perception, which we can all see is far off from reality. I am concerned about the future, which is precisely why I and folks like myself want to know just what exactly are these PCR tests finding. Folks like yourself seem to need very weak evidence for justification of any course of action. Far from informed.

Angrier and angrier or as one wag puts it "hell hath no fury like a moneyed interest masquerading as moral principle"



Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Doing what?

Working with groups like the Steelhead Society, the Land Conservancy and others to prevent the swine would destroy this place from doing so.
 
Tonington
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

Working with groups like the Steelhead Society, the Land Conservancy and others to prevent the swine would destroy this place from doing so.

Doing what?
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#105
Well the smell of rotting farmed slugs is becoming stronger and stronger.Fisheries managers appear to be scared sh!tless of the yanquis finding out about our nasty little secret and will say/do almost anything to make it appear that there is No Problem At All.Disgusting isn't too strong a word for their behaviour.

Salmon virus testing ban suggested

A federal manager suggested that independent Canadian labs not be allowed to test for an infectious salmon virus that was detected in wild B.C. sockeye salmon by a P.E.I. lab, a public inquiry heard Monday.

When Kim Klotins, acting national manager for disease control contingency planning at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, was asked why she made the suggestion, she responded, "It was an option I put forward basically because we could not confirm chain of custody."

The Cohen Commission has been looking into the decline of B.C.'s Fraser River sockeye salmon. (Jonathan Hayward/Canadian Press)Klotins said the government wanted to oversee the testing, and did not believe work by other labs was valid because the government could not know what happened to the fish prior to the tests in other labs.

"We already knew we were going to come out with a surveillance plan," she added during her testimony on the last day of the inquiry in Vancouver, B.C..

However, she acknowledged that the government is not presently sampling salmon to test for the virus and the plan won't be in place until later next year.

DNA from the salmon anemia virus, an infectious disease that has ravaged fish farms around the world, was first detected in two of 48 B.C. salmon smolts tested in October by the P.E.I.-based reference lab for infectious salmon anemia. The lab is part of a network affiliated with the OIE, the World Animal Health Organization. The samples of juvenile fish caught 100 kilometres from the nearest fish farm, had been sent to the P.E.I. lab by Rick Routledge, a professor at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C.

The OIE lab, run by Fred Kibenge, alerted the Department of Fisheries and Oceans about the results of its tests.

Managers contradicted DFO scientists' results
DFO scientists retested the samples weeks later, but deemed the results inconclusive because the samples were too degraded at that point.

Nevertheless, the government publicly announced that its tests for the virus gave negative results. It suggested the earlier positive results from other labs were not credible because they could not be duplicated.

Klotins said Monday even though the government labs testing for the infectious salmon anemia virus (ISA) in B.C. sockeye salmon may say something about what they've found, it's the managers' job to interpret the results. In this case, the managers decided to interpret them as negative.

The inquiry also heard that staff for Fisheries Minister Keith Ashfield dictated the content of a letter they wanted department officials to write in order to convince the U.S. Congress and Senate that the ISA virus doesn't exist in Canadian fish.

Government investigating OIE lab's methods
During cross-examination of government officials at the inquiry, lawyer Greg McDade accused the government of going after Kibenge's lab and trying to take away its OIE certification as punishment for the positive test results.

Klotins acknowledged that the methodology used by the lab is being investigated.

However, Stephen Stephen, director of the biotechnology and aquatic animal health sciences branch of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, said the government has no authority over the lab's OIE certification.

The Cohen commission is looking into the 2009 collapse of B.C.'s Fraser River sockeye salmon.

The inquiry, which began 21 months ago, originally heard closing arguments in November, but reconvened for three more days of hearings after the OIE lab announced the detection of the ISA virus and the government subsequently announced that it was unable to reproduce the results.

The inquiry's final report is due by the end of June.
 
Tonington
Avatar
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

DNA from the salmon anemia virus, an infectious disease that has ravaged fish farms around the world, was first detected in two of 48 B.C. salmon smolts tested in October by the P.E.I.-based reference lab for infectious salmon anemia.

Speculation. Nobody knows what those PCR tests are detecting.

No tissue culture. No clinical disease symptoms. No viremia detected by histopathology.

Therefore there can be no determination as to what the PCR test is finding. There is no corroboration for this imperfect test.

So, what were you doing as an activist? Collecting samples? Necropsies? Analyzing samples? Or just being a loud mouthed know-nothing?
 
bill barilko
#107
Does this thread smell like rotting fish or what?
 
taxslave
Avatar
+2
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Doing what?

Mostly putting working people out of jobs in rural areas while they build themselves ever larger concrete jungles that totally destroy the environment.
 
Tonington
Avatar
+1
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

Does this thread smell like rotting fish or what?

It must be your breath blowing back in your face. I know I had professors who talked a lot, had horrible halitosis.
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Mostly putting working people out of jobs in rural areas while they build themselves ever larger concrete jungles that totally destroy the environment.

Partially correct-once the environmental capital is used up by destroying the Salmon runs, fish bearing streams, forests and marine benthic environment rural dwellers will be well and truly f!cked.

What you fail to understand is that this is exactly what is happening now and it's what people like me and the organisations I volunteer for are trying to fight against.

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

It must be your breath blowing back in your face...

Not at all-it's the stench of lies from money grubbing swine who worship money and nothing else-as mentioned many times on this thread.

What more can be said about people who tout an ecologically, economically, morally indefensible practice like Salmon feedlots?
 
taxslave
Avatar
#111
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

Partially correct-once the environmental capital is used up by destroying the Salmon runs, fish bearing streams, forests and marine benthic environment rural dwellers will be well and truly f!cked.

What you fail to understand is that this is exactly what is happening now and it's what people like me and the organisations I volunteer for are trying to fight against.


Not at all-it's the stench of lies from money grubbing swine who worship money and nothing else-as mentioned many times on this thread.

What more can be said about people who tout an ecologically, economically, morally indefensible practice like Salmon feedlots?

The thing is the fish runs are for the most part being destroyed by the very people that should have the most interest in protecting them. The commercial fleet, native fisheries and the commercial sport fishery are the ones that are doing the most to destroy the runs through greed. Never mind the permanent destruction of most spawning beds caused by ever expanding cities. Loggers and fish farms do more to enhance habitat than all the groups that are dependent on wild stocks combined.
Fish farms do no harm to the environment but provide an important source of food at a reasonable cost and provide reasonably well paying jobs on the coast. That is a win win despite the bull**** ecoterrorists push on gullible city slickers in order to scam donations.
If you don't like open pens invent a cost effective alternative. I guarantee the major farms will be beating down your door with bags of cash.
 
bill barilko
Avatar
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The thing is the fish runs are for the most part being destroyed by the very people that should have the most interest in protecting them. The commercial fleet, native fisheries and the commercial sport fishery are the ones that are doing the most to destroy the runs through greed.

This from someone who doesn't fish at all.


And just what is a 'commercial sport fishery'-curious mind wants to know.


Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Never mind the permanent destruction of most spawning beds caused by ever expanding cities.

Sad to say it's been decades since anything more than a few dozen Coho or Chum spawned in or near any city in BC-WTF are you on anyway?


Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Loggers and fish farms do more to enhance habitat than all the groups that are dependent on wild stocks combined.

That is certainly the most idiotic thing you have ever said on this board and that's saying something.

As to the irony of clumping logging and industrial feedlots together I'll let it stand.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Fish farms do no harm to the environment but provide an important source of food at a reasonable cost and provide reasonably well paying jobs on the coast. That is a win win despite the bull**** ecoterrorists push on gullible city slickers in order to scam donations.

Congratulations-this is the second most idioitic thing you have ever posted here-nice to be on a roll eh?!


Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

If you don't like open pens invent a cost effective alternative. I guarantee the major farms will be beating down your door with bags of cash.

There is no cost effective way to raise carnivorous fish-that's the point I and thousands of others have been making since the first abominations appeared here.

We subsidise the operation of those travesties with the capital contained in our environment-once that's used up so are the feedlots and their minimum wage jobs.
 

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