New Quebec Real Estate Agents Will Need To Pass A French Test

I don't know about the rest of you folks out there, but this appears to be a direct violation of the civil rights of English Speaking Quebeckers. For those English speaking Quebeckers whose families have been here for many generations and have been involved in the Real Estate industry, this will prevent their offspring from inheriting the family business. Being unable to inherit the family business because one is born into the English speaking community instead of the French speaking community amounts to no less than racism. This type of law would be expected in third world countries ruled by dictators, but not in a civilized country such as Canada.

Full details:

--

On the legal front, I don't know.

It will not on its own prevent them from inheriting the family business (they do have the option of learning French after all), but recognizing that French is a difficult language to learn, it certainly increases the chances of that happening.

It has nothing to do with racism; there are French-speakers of all races as there are English-speakers of all races. More precisely, it amounts to linguistic prejudice, which can be just as harmful if not more so.

On the contrary, the leadership of 'Third World' countries is often so mentally colonized that it imposes the language of the former colonizer onto the population via the school system even though few speak it fluently. Quebec is trying to impose the language of the majority, which is essentially democratic mob rule. So what goes on in Africa and in Quebec don't even compare. Add to that that what Quebec is doing is not much different from what English-Canada is doing, albeit on a more extreme level. English-Canada imposes the English language with the same vigour in its school system (albeit with more leniency towards French)with minimal recognition of the local languages. Here in Ottawa, for instance, I can't think of one local school that teaches Algonquin.

All that being said, I think Quebec has gone way too far in its language policy. Then again, my view on the subject is quite radical by Canadian standards. It essentially involves adopting some modified form of the Indonesian or Turkish models.

The sooner Queerbec leaves Canada the better.

"The sooner Queerbec leaves Canada the better."

I don't care one way or another as long as Quebec doesn't stop making and exporting one of the best beers, La Fin Du Mond.

Are they going to sell real estate in France? Hell, even in France they speak some version of the language spoken by conquering Romans.

Anyone living in Québec "for many generations" has had the time and opportunity to learn French. Not having done so indicates the most severe prejudice. no one is forcedto live in Québec, surely. Language is culture.and culture is why people chooseto kive here!
Sorry, no sympathy!

This would explain the large exitus that I understood took place in the early '70's then...
both people and businesses....and some people are stuborn and aren't going to leave
their homes due to BS and bureaucracy...and here we are.

Supposedly, as Canadian citizens we have the right to live and work anywhere in the country and speak any language we want in our homes and businesses as well as deal with the government in either official language. EXCEPT Quebec.
Do you not see something wrong with this picture.

That depends on where in Quebec. In most of Quebec you're probably right. However, there are a few towns in the province that are predominantly English-speaking. Just think of how frequently you leave your own town. Not often I bet, if you're like most people. Maybe for the odd holiday now and then, or to visit friends or family for the weekend, but certainly not enough to learn or maintain a second-language well without considerable commitment on your part.

So for a native English-speaker living in a predominantly English-speaking town in Quebec, and attending an English-medium school, it's not so easy.

Also, I'll share a personal anecdote:

When I'd lived in Montreal with my wife, we both knew French and had no problem with employment. However, when her brother went to Montreal to finish high school at a private school there at his parents' expense (no taxpayer money involved so if anything Quebec would have gotten an infusion of money had he stayed), since he did not know French, and was almost finished high school, but the school in question, as per Quebec law, required him to achieve a minimal level of French to graduate, we therefore had to move to Ontario for him to attend school there (since he was underage to reside in Canada alone).

So essentially, Quebec lost two French-speakers so as to keep one non-French-speaker out of the province.

Seeing that he was not even applying for citizenship or anything, but merely wanted to finish high school to then attend university in Montreal, would it not have been more reasonable for the provincial ministry of education to recognize his previous language learning while simply require him to learn French for the last year of high school? That way, he'd still be learning French, putting money into the Quebec economy, creating jobs for French-teachers, and possibly eventually continuing his university studies in Quebec while continuing to learn French there?

Instead, he'd left Quebec, as did we, never to turn back and having lost his interest in French altogether and thus never having studied any French.

Oh, and here's another twist. The reason his sister knew French and he didn't was because by the time he was about to start school, the private French school, funded by the French Embassy in Addis Ababa, had changed its entrance policy, requiring new students to know French before attending.

So ironically enough, Quebec's language laws are so strict that they actually hurt the French language by depriving Quebec of French-speakers who may have non-francophone family members and students for French-teachers at no cost to the taxpayer. Way to go!

Take another look at the constitution, the complete one, not just the parts you think you see. Sorry, we don't much care what ROC wants. We live here. You don't and you don't have to want to, so we don,t really want you to try to impose your prejudices on us. Beleive it or not, we have rights too!
Cheers and have a happy llife in Regina (or Pile o' Bones as it was once called)!

He's not in Regina, but I am. In the narrow view you seem to see, you may have not
not noticed, but the "ROC" happens to also have rights, and just wants the right to
play on a level field.

Well, maybe giving people a chance and an incentive to learn it would go a long way. A person going to Quebec to study at his own parents' expense, only to be turned off by the impossible language requirements for French as a second language, when a more reasonable policy of recognizing past language study (yes, French is not the only language with culture!) and simply requiring French study from that point forward would be much more reasonable as a means of encouraging them to learn French.

Also, language is not truly culture. Language is a tool via which we access culture. That also includes literature, which gives us access to moral instruction too on how to treat people and care for them. You know French. How about you read les Fables de la Fontaine. Here's a quote from among them:

<<Le vent redouble ses efforts,
Et fait si bien qu’il déracine
Celui de qui la tête au Ciel était voisine
Et dont les pieds touchaient à l’Empire des Morts.>>

I'm sure you know this one, as it's taught in all French-medium secondary schools.

Quebec needs to learn from its great thinkers or, like le chêne in the Fable, it will crack under the wind. It needs to learn to be more like le roseau.

Yes, I do. While Quebec is saving money by adopting a monolingual government administration, other provinces are wasting theirs on bilingualism. Well, OK, I'm exaggerating a bit seeing that most provincial governments are monolingual English for the most part. But then again, seeing how what a business does on its own dime does not cost the taxpayer one red cent anyway, why not let businesses operate in the language of their choice?

I'm all for one single official language of government administration, as it's more efficient and saves money. Beyond that though, it's merely vindictive.

You still haven't expalained hy he didn't learn French. If sister had, why not he? Why aren't you blaming the school in Addis Abeba
If he left Québec not to have to learn French, he did so of his own free will and made his own decision. Your logic has changed direction there. If he wanted to stay, then he would have learned. It's not a difficult language, acually one of the easier ones in the world

You see according to you , it's always the other fellow's fault.
If someone decides to take a certain direction, then that person should assume the responsibility for that decision and not blame others for having made it.
As I said earlier, no one is obliged to live here. If someone leaves, it's their decison and no on else's!

[QUOTE=glofchm;1383932]You still haven't expalained hy he didn't learn French. If sister had, why not he? Why aren't you blaming the school in Addis Abeba[quote]

He did not learn French because in Addis Ababa he was not given a chance to learn French. After his sister had started school there, the school had adopted a new policy requiring all new students to know French before even attending. Since his parents did not know French, he was therefore barred from attending that school. Hi sister and brothers were merely lucky enough to have been older than him.

Oh by the way, notice how in Ethiopia they do allow other language schools!

No, he came to Quebec to prepare for university in Canada. Now since we lived there, it was natural that he'd moved there. Now neither he nor his parents would have had qualms about requiring him to learn French as a second language in school. The problem though is that the school expected him (not the school's decision, but the province's) have so many years of French study even though he only had one year left to go to get his high school diploma. Plus since his parents were paying, and he was going to be learning French in an English-medium school (he knew English because the local American school in Addis Ababa was more welcoming), it would have been a net benefit for Quebec to have one more person learning French and putting money into the Quebec economy.

Instead, it wasn't expected that he learn French, but that he know French.

Well, common sense dictates you first have to have a chance to learn it before you can know it. You don't just pass a law saying everyone must know it and poof! it's done. You have to encourage people to learn it, each at their own level.

What are you talking about. Seeing that it was Quebec bureaucracy that caused the problem, then yes.

How smug of you. Regardless of the impact on family. And you call yourself cultured?

Seriously, Quebec could adopt a policy that encourages French rather than scare people away from it.

Just to take an example, rather than forcing French-medium schools to learn English and then forcing people not to use what they learn in school, how about a more liberal approach of allowing French-medium schools to teach the second-language of their choice? I'm all for French as the sole official language of Quebec. I'm also for requiring all students in Quebec to have to study French, as a language of instruction if they can handle it, or at least as a second language. Foreigners paying their own way on student visas should be free to attend any school they want as long as they too are required to learn French at least as a second language. However, preventing people, especially Quebec natives, from earning a living is despicable. As for those not born in the province, yes they do have a choice, but consider the impact on their families. My family traces its roots back to New France on my mother's side. Yet because I dared marry someone with a family member who did not know English, I'm therefore not welcome there. How magnanimous of you. If that's what you call culture, I'd choose de la Fontaine, Hugo, and de Lamartine over you any day.

Let's consider le Dernier Huron of Francois-Xavier Garneau (your compatriot), who can at least sympathize with other cultures, unlike yourself who simply wants to crush them underfoot. You say French is culture. You have no culture. Had you had any culture, had you read de la Fontaine, Hugo, de Lamartine, and Garneau, you'd see that a part of French culture has to do with compassion towards your fellow human being. If al you know is French grammar and vocabulary, but are totally ignorant of the depths of its literature, they you have no culture, but merely a linguistic communication device which you use to spew rubbish.

TRIOMPHE, destinée ! Enfin, ton heure arrive.
O peuple, tu ne seras plus.
Il n'errera bientôt de toi sur cette rive
Que des mânes inconnus.
En vain le soir, du haut de la montagne,
J'appelle un nom : tout est silencieux.
O guerriers, levez-vous ; couvrez cette campagne,
Ombres de mes aïeux ! '

Mais la voix du Huron se perdait dans l'espace
Et ne réveillait plus d'échos,
Quand, soudain, il entend comme une ombre qui passe,
Et sous lui frémir des os.
Le sang indien s'embrase en sa poitrine ;
Ce bruit qui passe a fait vibrer son coeur…
Perfide illusion ! au pied de la colline,
C'est l'acier du faucheur !

-' Encor lui, toujours lui, cerf au regard funeste
Qui me poursuit en triomphant.
Il convoite, déjà, du chêne qui me reste
L'ombrage rafraîchissant.
Homme servile ! il rampe sur la terre ;
Sa lâche main, profanant des tombeaux,
Pour un salaire impur va troubler la poussière
Du sage et du héros.

' Il triomphe, et semblable à son troupeau timide,
Il redoutait l'oeil du Huron ;
Et lorsqu'il entendait le bruit d'un pas rapide
Descendant vers le vallon,
L'effroi, soudain, s'emparait de son âme :
Il croyait voir la mort devant ses yeux.
Pourquoi dès leur enfance et le glaive et la flamme
N'ont-ils passé sur eux ? '

Ainsi Tariolin, par des paroles vaines,
Exhalait un jour sa douleur :
Folle imprécation jetée aux vents des plaines,
Sans épuiser son malheur !
Là, sur la terre, à bas gisent ses armes,
Charme rompu qu'aux pieds broya le temps.
Lui-même a détourné ses yeux remplis de larmes
De ces fers impuissants.

Il cache dans ses mains sa tête qui s'incline,
Le coeur de tristesse oppressé :
Dernier souffle d'un peuple, orgueilleuse ruine
Sur l'abîme du passé !
Comme le chêne isolé dans la plaine,
D'une forêt noble et dernier débris,
Il ne reste que lui sur l'antique domaine
Par ses pères conquis.

Il est là, seul, debout au sommet des montagnes,
Loin des flots du Saint-Laurent ;
Son oeil avide plonge au loin dans les campagnes
Où s'élève le toit blanc.
Plus de forêts, plus d'ombres solitaires ;
Le sol est nu, les airs sont sans oiseaux ;
Au lieu de fiers guerriers, des tribus mercenaires
Habitent les coteaux.

' Que sont donc devenus, ô peuple, et ta puissance
Et tes guerriers si redoutés ?
Le plus fameux du nord jadis par ta vaillance,
Le plus grand par tes cités.
Ces monts couverts partout de tentes blanches,
Retentissaient des exploits de tes preux
Dont l'oeil étincelant reflétait sous les branches
L'éclair brillant des cieux.

' Libres comme l'oiseau qui planait sur leurs têtes,
Jamais rien n'arrêtait leurs pas.
Leurs jours étaient remplis et de joie et de fêtes,
De chasses et de combats.
Et dédaignant des entraves factices,
Suivant leur gré leurs demeures changeaient ;
Ils trouvaient en tous lieux des ombrages propices,
Des ruisseau qui coulaient.

' Au milieu des tournois sur les ondes limpides
Et des cris tumultueux,
Comme des cygnes blancs dans leurs courses rapides,
Leurs esquifs capricieux,
Joyeux voguaient sur le flot qui murmure
En écumant sous les coups d'avirons.
Ah ! fleuve Saint-Laurent, que ton onde était pure
Sous la nef des Hurons!

' Tantôt ils poursuivaient de leurs flèches sifflantes
Le renne qui pleure en mourant,
Et tantôt, sous les coups de leurs haches sanglantes
L'ours tombait en mugissant.
Et, fiers chasseurs, ils chantaient leur victoire
Par des refrains qu'inspirait leur valeur.
Mais pourquoi rappeler aujourd'hui la mémoire
De ces jours de grandeur ?

' Hélas ! puis-je, joyeux, en l'air brandir ma lance
Et chanter aussi mes exploits ?
Ai-je bravé comme eux, au jour de la vaillance,
La hache des Iroquois ?
Non, je n'ai point, sentinelle furtive,
Jusqu'en leur camp surpris des ennemis ;
Non, je n'ai pas vengé la dépouille plaintive
De parents et d'amis.

' Tous ces preux descendus dans la tombe éternelle
Dorment couchés sous ces guérets ;
De leur pays chéri la grandeur solennelle
Tombait avec les forêts.
Leurs noms, leurs jeux, leurs fêtes, leur histoire,
Sont avec eux enfouis pour toujours,
Et je suis resté seul pour dire leur mémoire
Aux peuples de nos jours !

' Orgueilleux, aujourd'hui qu'ils ont mon héritage,
Ces peuples font rouler leurs chars,
Où jadis s'assemblait, sous le sacré feuillage,
Le conseil de nos vieillards.
Avec fracas leurs somptueux cortèges
Vont envahir et profaner ces lieux !
Et les éclats bruyants des rires sacrilèges
Y montent jusqu'aux cieux !

' Mais il viendra pour eux le jour de la vengeance,
Et l'on brisera leurs tombeaux.
Des peuples inconnus comme un torrent immense
Ravageront leurs coteaux.
Sur les débris de leurs cités pompeuses,
Le pâtre assis alors ne saura pas
Dans ce vaste désert quelles cendres fameuses
Jaillissent sous ses pas.

' Qui sait ? peut-être alors renaîtront sur ces rives
Et les Indiens et leurs forêts ;
En reprenant leurs corps, leurs ombres fugitives
Couvriront tous ces guérets;
Et se levant comme après un long rêve,
Ils reverront partout les mêmes lieux,
Les sapins descendant jusqu'aux flots sur la grève,
En haut les mêmes cieux ! '

[QUOTE=Machjo;1383937][QUOTE=glofchm;1383932]You still haven't expalained hy he didn't learn French. If sister had, why not he? Why aren't you blaming the school in Addis Abeba
I am thinking of the impact of others' decisions on our families' development. Sorry, but you can't impose your own wants on the functionning of a whole society.That's really arrogant!
And by the way, Ethiopia is a country that needs to pander to all other groups because of its colonial and third world status. We don't. We also dont't need to be governed by outside prejudice.
You're angry because you did not get your way and are now throwing a temper tantrum.
Cheers and good bye.
"There is none so blind as he who would not see! "

[QUOTE=glofchm;1383946][QUOTE=Machjo;1383937]My God. Are you really that narrow-minded a Quebecer, or just a Francophobe trying to give French-speakers a bad name?

Hmmm... only one way to test this theory.

Où habite-tu? Il y a t-il plusieurs anglophones où tu vis? Et n'en connait-tu?

Doesn't this pretty much sum up your stance on the Quebec vrs the ROC (as you call it)
when looking at the big picture of the functioning of a whole Canadian society?

wow you know i understand french alot better than i give myself credit for cause i understood all of what macho man wrote

But I'd like to see him answer the questions. Maybe we can start chatting in French I hope. I'm starting to doubt that he's really a French-speaking Quebecer. If he is, then he's truly an insult to the rest of the society that he could be so cold-blooded towards how Bill 101 can divide families.

Now of course Canada's immigration laws can sometimes be equally effective in separating families, but Quebec's bill 101 just adds to that.

Including the poems that I'd quoted?

If so, then your French is pretty good.

i didnt notice the poems but looking at them now i can understand a nice chunk of it honestly. I try and be an educated hater

Here's the difference Machjo: Quebec is restricting the choices and rights of a certain segment of this sector. In the end, the market will reward (or punish) the Real Estate Agents or students, etc. that cannot effectively communicate in French. Having the province legislate this issue is in itself a contravention of a demographic's rights.

Impressive. It's a shame glmchm seems to be unfamiliar with them. Had he been well-versed in the roots of his Francophone culture and literature, he'd see that the literary and cultural masters of the language have generally been a tad more sophisticated in their mind-set than he is.

Heck, even Hugo, one of France's National Poets in the 1800's, was talking about a united Europe. And Octave Crémazie, Quebec's first Bard, also had a much larger view of the world than he does.

We find it too in Tennyson's writings. Tennyson, himself an admirer of Hugo, once wrote:


For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see,
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be;

Saw the heavens fill with commerce, argosies of magic sails,
Pilots of the purple twilight, dropping down with costly bales;

Heard the heavens fill with shouting, and there rain’d a ghastly dew
From the nations’ airy navies grappling in the central blue;

Far along the world-wide whisper of the south-wind rushing warm,
With the standards of the peoples plunging thro’ the thunder-storm;

Till the war-drum throbb’d no longer, and the battle-flags were furl’d
In the Parliament of man, the Federation of the world.

There the common sense of most shall hold a fretful realm in awe,
And the kindly earth shall slumber, lapt in universal law.

Or Blake:

TO Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
All pray in their distress;
And to these virtues of delight
Return their thankfulness.

For Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
Is God, our Father dear,
And Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
Is man, His child and care.

For Mercy has a human heart,
Pity a human face,
And Love, the human form divine,
And Peace, the human dress.

Then every man, of every clime,
That prays in his distress,
Prays to the human form divine,
Love, Mercy, Pity, Peace.

And all must love the human form,
In heathen, Turk, or Jew;
Where Mercy, Love, and Pity dwell
There God is dwelling too.


Hugo, de la Fontaine and many others have similar ideas. Clearly our resident bigot is not too familiar with his own literature and culture.

Where did I say I disagree with that. While it's fine for the government to adopt French as an official language of government administration, or to require schools to teach it at least as a second language, I'm totally opposed to government imposing French on the private sector. In fact, the great French thinkers of the past, especially Jules Vernes, would certainly have opposed it. Just read A Thousand Leagues Under the Sea to see his ideas on the matter. He must be turning in his grave at Quebec's language laws. Unfortunately few Quebecers are truly informed by their classics, and instead stoop to cheap politics.

Captain Morgan, you're not glofchm are you?

Nope. He's not. Trust me on that one.

I trust you.

Who is glofchm?

One of the posters in this thread. Just scroll up and you'll see his user name. He seems so inconsiderate of the challenges non-French-speakers in Quebec face that I'm coming to suspect he's actually a francophone pretending to be a hateful French-speaker. I challenged him to an exchange in French, but nothing from him yet, which merely strengthens my suspicions. Or he may very well be such a hateful French-speaker. Either way, he's an embarrassment.

OK... I'll have to go look at the posts you suggested.