The Padre
Posts: 4,558 
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 16th, 2007, 04:53 AM
By Jonathan Montpetit
LONGUEUIL, Que. (CP) - A taekwondo team of Muslim girls withdrew from a tournament on Sunday after they were barred from taking part with their hijabs, threatening to re-ignite Quebec's contentious debate about accommodating religious minorities.
"I feel very sad because we practised so hard," said 11-year-old Bissan Mansour, who wears a hijab. "We pulled out for a useless reason."
Referees at the Quebec regional Raymond Mourad Championship met Sunday morning, the first day of the tournament, to talk about rules and regulations.
During the discussion, it was brought up that a team from a Muslim community centre in Montreal would be competing with their hijabs.
"The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn't include the hijab," said international referee Stephane Menard, who took part in the meeting.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
The team, made up of girls between eight and 12 years old, went home following the decision. A boys team from the same community centre also withdrew upon hearing the news.
Tournament founder Raymond Mourad said he wanted officials to let the Muslim girls compete this time, but his pleas went unheard.
"The kids who came today, we could have let them compete and warned them for next time," Mourad said. "I tried my hardest to do that, but the referee didn't want to hear it."
Officials said the decision was taken for security reasons. Taekwondo is a martial art that involves mainly kicking and throwing, and the fear is that part of the hijab could come loose during a bout.
The sport's international rules stipulate that players must not wear anything under their protective helmets.
Jean Faucher, president of the provincial taekwando federation, ultimately made the decision to apply the rules concerning hijabs.
"I am not a racist or anything," Faucher said. "It's a rule and I'm a guy for the rules."
But May Haydar of the Montreal Muslim Community Centre said the team had participated in the tournament in recent years without any controversy over the wearing of hijabs.
"We believe it's unfair and it's discriminatory against Muslims," Haydar said.
"The girls, they're very disappointed... Some of them, of course, don't understand why this happened because they participated before."
A coach for the boys team said the girls always practise with their hijabs and there has never been an incident.
Concerns about accommodations to minorities have been simmering in Quebec for the past several months, and Sunday's controversy fuelled fears the debate is simply alienating Quebec's cultural communities.
The Canadian Council of American-Islamic Relations said the decision won't encourage Muslim women to participate in sports.
"This recent fixation on the hijab is only serving to marginalize Muslim women who wish to participate in athletic activity," the Ottawa-based organization said.
The "reasonable accommodation" debate has become so intense that Premier Jean Charest has struck a committee to study the issue.
It's the second time in recent months the hijab has caused controversy at an amateur sporting event in Quebec involving pre-teens.
In February, an 11-year-old Muslim girl from Ottawa was asked to remove her hijab at a soccer tournament in Laval, north of Montreal, due to safety concerns. She refused and her team pulled out of the tournament.
During last month's provincial election, Quebec's chief returning officer received threats and was forced to overturn a ruling that allowed woman to vote while wearing a niqab, a more extensive face covering than the hijab.
The long-line of racially charged incidents also include:
-A Montreal Muslim woman who recently complained she was forced to chose between her hijab and a job as a prison guard.
-Herouxville, a small town in rural Quebec that set up a code of conduct for would-be immigrants.
-A Montreal community health centre under fire for holding women-only pre-natal classes to make Muslim, Sikh or Hindu women feel more comfortable.
Copyright © 2007 Canadian Press
By Jonathan Montpetit
LONGUEUIL, Que. (CP) - A taekwondo team of Muslim girls withdrew from a tournament on Sunday after they were barred from taking part with their hijabs, threatening to re-ignite Quebec's contentious debate about accommodating religious minorities.
"I feel very sad because we practised so hard," said 11-year-old Bissan Mansour, who wears a hijab. "We pulled out for a useless reason."
Referees at the Quebec regional Raymond Mourad Championship met Sunday morning, the first day of the tournament, to talk about rules and regulations.
During the discussion, it was brought up that a team from a Muslim community centre in Montreal would be competing with their hijabs.
"The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn't include the hijab," said international referee Stephane Menard, who took part in the meeting.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
The team, made up of girls between eight and 12 years old, went home following the decision. A boys team from the same community centre also withdrew upon hearing the news.
Tournament founder Raymond Mourad said he wanted officials to let the Muslim girls compete this time, but his pleas went unheard.
"The kids who came today, we could have let them compete and warned them for next time," Mourad said. "I tried my hardest to do that, but the referee didn't want to hear it."
Officials said the decision was taken for security reasons. Taekwondo is a martial art that involves mainly kicking and throwing, and the fear is that part of the hijab could come loose during a bout.
The sport's international rules stipulate that players must not wear anything under their protective helmets.
Jean Faucher, president of the provincial taekwando federation, ultimately made the decision to apply the rules concerning hijabs.
"I am not a racist or anything," Faucher said. "It's a rule and I'm a guy for the rules."
But May Haydar of the Montreal Muslim Community Centre said the team had participated in the tournament in recent years without any controversy over the wearing of hijabs.
"We believe it's unfair and it's discriminatory against Muslims," Haydar said.
"The girls, they're very disappointed... Some of them, of course, don't understand why this happened because they participated before."
A coach for the boys team said the girls always practise with their hijabs and there has never been an incident.
Concerns about accommodations to minorities have been simmering in Quebec for the past several months, and Sunday's controversy fuelled fears the debate is simply alienating Quebec's cultural communities.
The Canadian Council of American-Islamic Relations said the decision won't encourage Muslim women to participate in sports.
"This recent fixation on the hijab is only serving to marginalize Muslim women who wish to participate in athletic activity," the Ottawa-based organization said.
The "reasonable accommodation" debate has become so intense that Premier Jean Charest has struck a committee to study the issue.
It's the second time in recent months the hijab has caused controversy at an amateur sporting event in Quebec involving pre-teens.
In February, an 11-year-old Muslim girl from Ottawa was asked to remove her hijab at a soccer tournament in Laval, north of Montreal, due to safety concerns. She refused and her team pulled out of the tournament.
During last month's provincial election, Quebec's chief returning officer received threats and was forced to overturn a ruling that allowed woman to vote while wearing a niqab, a more extensive face covering than the hijab.
The long-line of racially charged incidents also include:
-A Montreal Muslim woman who recently complained she was forced to chose between her hijab and a job as a prison guard.
-Herouxville, a small town in rural Quebec that set up a code of conduct for would-be immigrants.
-A Montreal community health centre under fire for holding women-only pre-natal classes to make Muslim, Sikh or Hindu women feel more comfortable.
Copyright © 2007 Canadian Press
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,897
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
April 16th, 2007, 06:55 AM
This is Muslims again trying to push racial issues over security. This is black and white !
There're Sihk drivers in the port of Montreal that are not allowed out of their trucks because hard hats are required.
The Jewish hospital during their holiday covered the dispensing machines, due to the fact it sold food that was not allowed at the time, Levine bread and such. The hospital is financed by public money and has an 85 % non Jewish clientele.
Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside. The French immigrant come here to get away from just that situation in France. Laws are going to be made, the populace is getting tired of this. The government is going to have to get off their ass on this one before its too late.
This is Muslims again trying to push racial issues over security. This is black and white !
There're Sihk drivers in the port of Montreal that are not allowed out of their trucks because hard hats are required.
The Jewish hospital during their holiday covered the dispensing machines, due to the fact it sold food that was not allowed at the time, Levine bread and such. The hospital is financed by public money and has an 85 % non Jewish clientele.
Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside. The French immigrant come here to get away from just that situation in France. Laws are going to be made, the populace is getting tired of this. The government is going to have to get off their ass on this one before its too late.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 16th, 2007, 07:13 AM
Quoting El Barto
Who is getting pushed aside? French-Canadians?
This is Muslims again trying to push racial issues over security. This is black and white !
There're Sihk drivers in the port of Montreal that are not allowed out of their trucks because hard hats are required.
The Jewish hospital during their holiday covered the dispensing machines, due to the fact it sold food that was not allowed at the time, Levine bread and such. The hospital is financed by public money and has an 85 % non Jewish clientele.
Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside. The French immigrant come here to get away from just that situation in France. Laws are going to be made, the populace is getting tired of this. The government is going to have to get off their ass on this one before its too late.
There're Sihk drivers in the port of Montreal that are not allowed out of their trucks because hard hats are required.
The Jewish hospital during their holiday covered the dispensing machines, due to the fact it sold food that was not allowed at the time, Levine bread and such. The hospital is financed by public money and has an 85 % non Jewish clientele.
Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside. The French immigrant come here to get away from just that situation in France. Laws are going to be made, the populace is getting tired of this. The government is going to have to get off their ass on this one before its too late.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 16th, 2007, 07:19 AM
It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.
Quoting El Barto
So what do we do? Expel them from the country? There are only 500,000, more or less, Muslims in Canada. Are we perhaps making a mountain out of a molehill?
We all are , or are going to be. Its a major problem in Europe, its going to be here.
It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,897
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
April 16th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Security reasons aren't good enough for you? Whats wrong for taking it off for a few minutes or when the competition is over. What happens if there's an accident during the tournament?
It's black and white.
If my religion or faith or what ever dictated that I wear only sandals as foot wear, then I wouldn't be allowed on the job site due to security reasons....period. I can't imagine how clearly this can be!
Quoting sanctus
Well here we go again, lets go to the extremes.........
So what do we do? Expel them from the country? There are only 500,000, more or less, Muslims in Canada. Are we perhaps making a mountain out of a molehill?
It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.
It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.
Security reasons aren't good enough for you? Whats wrong for taking it off for a few minutes or when the competition is over. What happens if there's an accident during the tournament?
It's black and white.
If my religion or faith or what ever dictated that I wear only sandals as foot wear, then I wouldn't be allowed on the job site due to security reasons....period. I can't imagine how clearly this can be!
Newbie
Posts: 31
April 16th, 2007, 07:28 AM
"The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn't include the hijab," said international referee Stephane Menard, who took part in the meeting.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
What more can be argued against it? One is not allowed to wear a cross on a necklace either. The media is blowing this issue out of proportion. Basically if they just wear the uniform of that particular sport or activity there will be no problem, then they can go back to the Hijab after its done. And that rule applies to all us, whether its martial arts or working with hard-hats.
"The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn't include the hijab," said international referee Stephane Menard, who took part in the meeting.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
What more can be argued against it? One is not allowed to wear a cross on a necklace either. The media is blowing this issue out of proportion. Basically if they just wear the uniform of that particular sport or activity there will be no problem, then they can go back to the Hijab after its done. And that rule applies to all us, whether its martial arts or working with hard-hats.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 16th, 2007, 07:54 AM
I don't have a problem with them removing the hijab for the sporting event. However, you suggested we as a whole, assuming the Canadian people, were going to have a problem with Muslims. You wrote " Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside." You stated the extreme, I asked for your solution for it. You have a knack, if I may, for shooting your mouth off without backing it up.
Quoting El Barto
Well here we go again, lets go to the extremes.........
Security reasons aren't good enough for you? Whats wrong for taking it off for a few minutes or when the competition is over. What happens if there's an accident during the tournament?
It's black and white.
If my religion or faith or what ever dictated that I wear only sandals as foot wear, then I wouldn't be allowed on the job site due to security reasons....period. I can't imagine how clearly this can be!
Security reasons aren't good enough for you? Whats wrong for taking it off for a few minutes or when the competition is over. What happens if there's an accident during the tournament?
It's black and white.
If my religion or faith or what ever dictated that I wear only sandals as foot wear, then I wouldn't be allowed on the job site due to security reasons....period. I can't imagine how clearly this can be!
I don't have a problem with them removing the hijab for the sporting event. However, you suggested we as a whole, assuming the Canadian people, were going to have a problem with Muslims. You wrote " Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside." You stated the extreme, I asked for your solution for it. You have a knack, if I may, for shooting your mouth off without backing it up.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 16th, 2007, 07:55 AM
I agree.
Quoting tbud
"The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn't include the hijab," said international referee Stephane Menard, who took part in the meeting.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
What more can be argued against it? One is not allowed to wear a cross on a necklace either. The media is blowing this issue out of proportion. Basically if they just wear the uniform of that particular sport or activity there will be no problem, then they can go back to the Hijab after its done. And that rule applies to all us, whether its martial arts or working with hard-hats.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
What more can be argued against it? One is not allowed to wear a cross on a necklace either. The media is blowing this issue out of proportion. Basically if they just wear the uniform of that particular sport or activity there will be no problem, then they can go back to the Hijab after its done. And that rule applies to all us, whether its martial arts or working with hard-hats.
I agree.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,897
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
April 16th, 2007, 08:05 AM
These are things being said here by not just me but others and seeming this thread is in Quebec, well..........
Politicians are finally looking into it. Shooting my mouth off like that Ringo incident ....lol
Quoting sanctus
Well its a major issue here every ones talking. What do you want a two page boring post ?
I don't have a problem with them removing the hijab for the sporting event. However, you suggested we as a whole, assuming the Canadian people, were going to have a problem with Muslims. You wrote " Yes there is a racial war going on, we are being moved aside." You stated the extreme, I asked for your solution for it. You have a knack, if I may, for shooting your mouth off without backing it up.
These are things being said here by not just me but others and seeming this thread is in Quebec, well..........
Politicians are finally looking into it. Shooting my mouth off like that Ringo incident ....lol
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 16th, 2007, 08:12 AM
As to this topic, said by whom? Who is saying these things? Exactly what do the Muslims do that makes you believe they are a threat to our country or our way of life? How can such a minority of people so threaten you that you believe we have a "racial war" going on? How are they destroying Quebec specifically, or Canada as a whole? What about other non-Christian groups? Should we object to Jewish men wearing their "beanies'? Priests wearing their cassocks? Is the real issue we do not want, in truth, religious freedom in this country?
Quoting El Barto
The "Ringo" incident? What incident, I only indicated he was my choice for the greatest drummer in rock and roll,and I stand by that judgement on my part.
Well its a major issue here every ones talking. What do you want a two page boring post ?
These are things being said here by not just me but others and seeming this thread is in Quebec, well..........
Politicians are finally looking into it. Shooting my mouth off like that Ringo incident ....lol
These are things being said here by not just me but others and seeming this thread is in Quebec, well..........
Politicians are finally looking into it. Shooting my mouth off like that Ringo incident ....lol
As to this topic, said by whom? Who is saying these things? Exactly what do the Muslims do that makes you believe they are a threat to our country or our way of life? How can such a minority of people so threaten you that you believe we have a "racial war" going on? How are they destroying Quebec specifically, or Canada as a whole? What about other non-Christian groups? Should we object to Jewish men wearing their "beanies'? Priests wearing their cassocks? Is the real issue we do not want, in truth, religious freedom in this country?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
April 16th, 2007, 10:56 AM
A poll released last week stated fully 80% of Quebecers want immigrants to assimilate. Not integrate - assimilate. Such a high number obviously reflects unease in the province. Given Quebec is also North America's most homogeneous community, it does seem to make sense. The people there want to protect their traditions and culture. It's become part of multicultural lore that such islands of resistance shouldn't be allowed their convictions. But I wonder...
A poll released last week stated fully 80% of Quebecers want immigrants to assimilate. Not integrate - assimilate. Such a high number obviously reflects unease in the province. Given Quebec is also North America's most homogeneous community, it does seem to make sense. The people there want to protect their traditions and culture. It's become part of multicultural lore that such islands of resistance shouldn't be allowed their convictions. But I wonder...
Clever Clogs
Posts: 634
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
April 16th, 2007, 01:16 PM
Quoting sanctus
Santus I will jump in here and say YES. They have been accepted until they started making demands on our society by demanding that we change our way of life. That is not acceptable, the hijab is just another symptom of more demands and it pi**es people off. One example is that in a CLSC that gives prenatal courses to future parents (mothers and fathers to be), the Muslims have demanded that if one of their women is in the course that none of OUR fathers be allowed to follow the course. That is b u l l , they are in our country and have no right to demand that we change our ways. If they don't like it they can go back! How many different kinds if immigrants have come to this country and never made demands, they just have to do the same.
The "Ringo" incident? What incident, I only indicated he was my choice for the greatest drummer in rock and roll,and I stand by that judgement on my part.
As to this topic, said by whom? Who is saying these things? Exactly what do the Muslims do that makes you believe they are a threat to our country or our way of life? How can such a minority of people so threaten you that you believe we have a "racial war" going on? How are they destroying Quebec specifically, or Canada as a whole? What about other non-Christian groups? Should we object to Jewish men wearing their "beanies'? Priests wearing their cassocks? Is the real issue we do not want, in truth, religious freedom in this country?
As to this topic, said by whom? Who is saying these things? Exactly what do the Muslims do that makes you believe they are a threat to our country or our way of life? How can such a minority of people so threaten you that you believe we have a "racial war" going on? How are they destroying Quebec specifically, or Canada as a whole? What about other non-Christian groups? Should we object to Jewish men wearing their "beanies'? Priests wearing their cassocks? Is the real issue we do not want, in truth, religious freedom in this country?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,323
April 16th, 2007, 02:49 PM
This is completly retarded, the media in quebec before the election started thi ridicoulus debate, when in fact the debates cost more to the people than the accomodating religous minorities directly, and more importantly NOBODY DIES FROM IT. and it is completly normal to accomodates immigrants, since immigrant accomodates us when they come to live in here.
If they want to barred or stop people wearing their hijab, why not trying to stop people wearing their baseball cap?
what is the difference?
None at all.
We will not hear debates on military troops in afganisthan, that is a sad fact, especially when you know that, peoples over there are gettting killed, canadian military are getting killed, money is being spent more and more,the situation is gettting worst, nothing good has been done so far, and you know what? all of this based on spéculations.
Quoting sanctus
By Jonathan Montpetit
LONGUEUIL, Que. (CP) - A taekwondo team of Muslim girls withdrew from a tournament on Sunday after they were barred from taking part with their hijabs, threatening to re-ignite Quebec's contentious debate about accommodating religious minorities.
By Jonathan Montpetit
LONGUEUIL, Que. (CP) - A taekwondo team of Muslim girls withdrew from a tournament on Sunday after they were barred from taking part with their hijabs, threatening to re-ignite Quebec's contentious debate about accommodating religious minorities.
This is completly retarded, the media in quebec before the election started thi ridicoulus debate, when in fact the debates cost more to the people than the accomodating religous minorities directly, and more importantly NOBODY DIES FROM IT. and it is completly normal to accomodates immigrants, since immigrant accomodates us when they come to live in here.
If they want to barred or stop people wearing their hijab, why not trying to stop people wearing their baseball cap?
what is the difference?
None at all.
We will not hear debates on military troops in afganisthan, that is a sad fact, especially when you know that, peoples over there are gettting killed, canadian military are getting killed, money is being spent more and more,the situation is gettting worst, nothing good has been done so far, and you know what? all of this based on spéculations.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,897
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
April 16th, 2007, 10:29 PM
Quoting Sparrow
DIDO now wheres your rep points
Santus I will jump in here and say YES. They have been accepted until they started making demands on our society by demanding that we change our way of life. That is not acceptable, the hijab is just another symptom of more demands and it pi**es people off. One example is that in a CLSC that gives prenatal courses to future parents (mothers and fathers to be), the Muslims have demanded that if one of their women is in the course that none of OUR fathers be allowed to follow the course. That is b u l l , they are in our country and have no right to demand that we change our ways. If they don't like it they can go back! How many different kinds if immigrants have come to this country and never made demands, they just have to do the same.
Time Out
Posts: 1,651
April 16th, 2007, 11:28 PM
I agree... as I learn more about the Quebecois I find I have more and more in common with them.
They are no different from me, except their language.
Anywho, I can`t wear a necklace in physical activities because its a safety hazard. What is their too this! Its safety, and it will not be tolerated to throw safety out the window for a religious clothing item. What if a religion said ``no seatbelts when driving``, would we allow them to not be fined... nope. You either follow the rules of the organization or you do not participate in the organization.
Quebecois loves their culture and identity, and their people are not going to step aside to accomidate Muslims.
Freedom of religion is fine. I have no problem what a person does in their home or church, so long it does not go against the Canadian Criminal Code. But you came to our country, for our life. You want your public life to be the same - well then you shouldn`t have moved here. Immigrants come here for our culture, if they don`t like it they go elsewhere!
Alot of people across this country are fed up with giving up all these culturally norms for the immigrants flooding this nation.
I can tell ya one thing rate now, if Canada had been able to vote on all these major issues in our history, our nation would be VERY different today.
I wonder what would have happened if we would have been able to vote on: bilingualism, multiculturalism, abortion, same-sex marriage, death penalty, prison sentences.
Some things may be the same, but alot of things would have swung differently with the public`s vote.
I agree... as I learn more about the Quebecois I find I have more and more in common with them.
They are no different from me, except their language.
Anywho, I can`t wear a necklace in physical activities because its a safety hazard. What is their too this! Its safety, and it will not be tolerated to throw safety out the window for a religious clothing item. What if a religion said ``no seatbelts when driving``, would we allow them to not be fined... nope. You either follow the rules of the organization or you do not participate in the organization.
Quebecois loves their culture and identity, and their people are not going to step aside to accomidate Muslims.
Freedom of religion is fine. I have no problem what a person does in their home or church, so long it does not go against the Canadian Criminal Code. But you came to our country, for our life. You want your public life to be the same - well then you shouldn`t have moved here. Immigrants come here for our culture, if they don`t like it they go elsewhere!
Alot of people across this country are fed up with giving up all these culturally norms for the immigrants flooding this nation.
I can tell ya one thing rate now, if Canada had been able to vote on all these major issues in our history, our nation would be VERY different today.
I wonder what would have happened if we would have been able to vote on: bilingualism, multiculturalism, abortion, same-sex marriage, death penalty, prison sentences.
Some things may be the same, but alot of things would have swung differently with the public`s vote.
Newbie
Posts: 31
April 17th, 2007, 08:33 AM
"We will not hear debates on military troops in afganisthan, that is a sad fact, especially when you know that, peoples over there are gettting killed, canadian military are getting killed, money is being spent more and more,the situation is gettting worst, nothing good has been done so far, and you know what? all of this based on spéculations."
"We will not hear debates on military troops in afganisthan, that is a sad fact, especially when you know that, peoples over there are gettting killed, canadian military are getting killed, money is being spent more and more,the situation is gettting worst, nothing good has been done so far, and you know what? all of this based on spéculations."
