Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,640 
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Location: Oklahoma, USA
October 7th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Looks like more of the same in my old city. Taxes just keep going up. This time it's 8 billion dollars that taxpayers will have to fork over for this new facelift project. Incredible!
http://www.canada.com/montreal/montr...0-d66d41f8540b
Waterfront project called city's biggest renewal since Expo 67
ALAN HUSTAK
The Montreal Gazette
Friday, October 07, 2005
Part of the Bonaventure Expressway will be put underground in the proposals for the area.
Parts of the Bonaventure Expressway would be torn up and the old Griffintown district would be revitalized as part of an $8-billion plan that is being hailed as Montreal's biggest urban renewal project since Expo 67.
Former Quebec premier Lucien Bouchard and Senator Francis Fox, co-chairpersons of the Societe du Havre de Montreal, pitched the proposal yesterday to the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal.
It would cost taxpayers $650 million just to remove sections of the Bonaventure to allow the city to reclaim a strip of shoreline along the St. Lawrence River, but the project's backers say the economic return would be worth it.
The massive project, known as Vision 2025, also would include the relocation of the casino to Point St. Charles from Ile Notre Dame, wholesale development of the Peel Basin, and the introduction of a light-rail transit system that would start from downtown and travel through Griffintown and the Old Port to the east end of Old Montreal.
The Societe du Havre de Montreal is a non-profit organization responsible for promoting development of the city's harbourfront.
It initially unveiled the master plan a year ago.
Two feasibility studies to determine the costs involved have come up with the $650-million price tag for the first phase of the plan. That would reroute sections of the Bonaventure Expressway through a tunnel and turn other elevated sections between University St. and the Peel Basin into an urban boulevard.
The project would require participation by the federal and Quebec governments, however.
"If Montreal is to progress, if it wants to improve its quality of life, if it is to regain its international status, we have to go ahead with this," Bouchard said.
"It's not money lost. The revenues from investment would be considerable."
If the plan goes ahead, the first phase requires demolishing the portion of the Bonaventure Expressway that hugs the river in front of the Technoparc between the Peel Basin and Nuns' Island.
Fox admitted it's a challenge, but he said the work wouldn't be as expensive as it appears.
"Any number of federal programs already exist," he said.
"We're talking federal programs for infrastructure. We are not talking about outrageous amounts of money.
"The project would finance itself due to the economic spinoffs generated by the resulting real-estate development," he added.
"I'm also talking about job creation, and the estimated $2.7 billion in real-estate investments and additional government revenues.
Mayor Gerald Tremblay said afterward: "It's not a pipe dream. If both the federal and provincial governments could together invest $60 million in the Quartier International development (in and around Victoria Square) and realize an immediate $250-million return, its not a pipe dream.
"We now have to convince the federal and provincial governments to change their mindset and stop focusing on the debt and deficits and concentrate on investments that create wealth."
The engineering study was conducted by SNC-Lavalin, and the study on economic spinoffs by Genivar, an engineering and construction company.
Looks like more of the same in my old city. Taxes just keep going up. This time it's 8 billion dollars that taxpayers will have to fork over for this new facelift project. Incredible!
http://www.canada.com/montreal/montr...0-d66d41f8540b
Waterfront project called city's biggest renewal since Expo 67
ALAN HUSTAK
The Montreal Gazette
Friday, October 07, 2005
Part of the Bonaventure Expressway will be put underground in the proposals for the area.
Parts of the Bonaventure Expressway would be torn up and the old Griffintown district would be revitalized as part of an $8-billion plan that is being hailed as Montreal's biggest urban renewal project since Expo 67.
Former Quebec premier Lucien Bouchard and Senator Francis Fox, co-chairpersons of the Societe du Havre de Montreal, pitched the proposal yesterday to the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal.
It would cost taxpayers $650 million just to remove sections of the Bonaventure to allow the city to reclaim a strip of shoreline along the St. Lawrence River, but the project's backers say the economic return would be worth it.
The massive project, known as Vision 2025, also would include the relocation of the casino to Point St. Charles from Ile Notre Dame, wholesale development of the Peel Basin, and the introduction of a light-rail transit system that would start from downtown and travel through Griffintown and the Old Port to the east end of Old Montreal.
The Societe du Havre de Montreal is a non-profit organization responsible for promoting development of the city's harbourfront.
It initially unveiled the master plan a year ago.
Two feasibility studies to determine the costs involved have come up with the $650-million price tag for the first phase of the plan. That would reroute sections of the Bonaventure Expressway through a tunnel and turn other elevated sections between University St. and the Peel Basin into an urban boulevard.
The project would require participation by the federal and Quebec governments, however.
"If Montreal is to progress, if it wants to improve its quality of life, if it is to regain its international status, we have to go ahead with this," Bouchard said.
"It's not money lost. The revenues from investment would be considerable."
If the plan goes ahead, the first phase requires demolishing the portion of the Bonaventure Expressway that hugs the river in front of the Technoparc between the Peel Basin and Nuns' Island.
Fox admitted it's a challenge, but he said the work wouldn't be as expensive as it appears.
"Any number of federal programs already exist," he said.
"We're talking federal programs for infrastructure. We are not talking about outrageous amounts of money.
"The project would finance itself due to the economic spinoffs generated by the resulting real-estate development," he added.
"I'm also talking about job creation, and the estimated $2.7 billion in real-estate investments and additional government revenues.
Mayor Gerald Tremblay said afterward: "It's not a pipe dream. If both the federal and provincial governments could together invest $60 million in the Quartier International development (in and around Victoria Square) and realize an immediate $250-million return, its not a pipe dream.
"We now have to convince the federal and provincial governments to change their mindset and stop focusing on the debt and deficits and concentrate on investments that create wealth."
The engineering study was conducted by SNC-Lavalin, and the study on economic spinoffs by Genivar, an engineering and construction company.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,640
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Location: Oklahoma, USA
October 8th, 2005, 10:07 AM
Yep. However, it is not unbelievable. When it comes to Montreal, tax is the rule of the day. The folks there just love dishing out $$$. It never ends.
The mayor in Montreal should change his party's name from The Montreal Island Citizens' Union (MICU) to the MTP ... The Montreal Tax Party.
Yep. However, it is not unbelievable. When it comes to Montreal, tax is the rule of the day. The folks there just love dishing out $$$. It never ends.
The mayor in Montreal should change his party's name from The Montreal Island Citizens' Union (MICU) to the MTP ... The Montreal Tax Party.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,640
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Location: Oklahoma, USA
October 8th, 2005, 12:35 PM
Rev, this isn't a matter of simply fixing up the city. 8 billion dollars is not what I'd call routine maintenance. What they are doing is investing on a facelift project on the backs of the taxpayers. Yep, they're investing to make money, but the capital for the investment comes from the taxpayers.
This is the best type of investment for any level of government (Federal, Provincial, Municipal) since they have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. The only sucke ... er I mean the only ones losing are the taxpayers.
Rev, this isn't a matter of simply fixing up the city. 8 billion dollars is not what I'd call routine maintenance. What they are doing is investing on a facelift project on the backs of the taxpayers. Yep, they're investing to make money, but the capital for the investment comes from the taxpayers.
This is the best type of investment for any level of government (Federal, Provincial, Municipal) since they have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. The only sucke ... er I mean the only ones losing are the taxpayers.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
October 8th, 2005, 12:48 PM
If it works...if the project does make money...then it will benefit the taxpayers.
It also benefits the taxpayers in other ways. The city becomes nicer to live in. Tourism increases bringing in business for local companies.
Your arguments are much like the ones heard here when the foot bridge from The Forks or St Boniface was built. There was a group of people who would have preferred that there be no bridge at all. If there had to be a bridge, they would have preferred that it be strictly utilitarian.
Fortunately those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing lost the battle and we have a beautiful bridge that has increased foot traffic in the area. The city is better off because that bridge is there.
The same applies in Montreal. Major facelift projects have benefits both tangible and intangible. Private enterprise, interested only in their own personal greed, will not take on such projects. That leaves governments no choice but to take on the projects themselves.
If it works...if the project does make money...then it will benefit the taxpayers.
It also benefits the taxpayers in other ways. The city becomes nicer to live in. Tourism increases bringing in business for local companies.
Your arguments are much like the ones heard here when the foot bridge from The Forks or St Boniface was built. There was a group of people who would have preferred that there be no bridge at all. If there had to be a bridge, they would have preferred that it be strictly utilitarian.
Fortunately those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing lost the battle and we have a beautiful bridge that has increased foot traffic in the area. The city is better off because that bridge is there.
The same applies in Montreal. Major facelift projects have benefits both tangible and intangible. Private enterprise, interested only in their own personal greed, will not take on such projects. That leaves governments no choice but to take on the projects themselves.
leads to 
Member
Posts: 149
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
October 12th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Quoting
I didn't say the people of Quebec don't have a right to their tax money, I said and stand by it being hypocritical for a separatist to call on the financial resources of a nation he's trying to get rid of. It certainly fuels the idea in the rest of the country that people like him are spouting separatist beliefs as a mere means of extracting more money from the federal gov't in a blackmail-like fashion. If he believes in a cause, he should live within the integrity of his position. Either he supports the federal gov't involvement in Quebec or he doesn't, period. His lack of integrity on the issue is good reason to call him a hypocrite.
Quebec is second only to Ontario in their contribution to Canada's Gross Domestic Product. Federal money is THEIR money. Don't forget THAT.
Newbie
Posts: 48
Location: Montreal Kebec
Location: Montreal Kebec
October 12th, 2005, 07:13 PM
I really wish the Montreal and the Laval administration would stop wasting our money on such stupid ****. They're spending millions on a metro stations in Laval that nobody needs (seeing as there's a proper one just over the bridge), in the most dangerous pedestrian spot in laval, when we could've just spend loads less on updating and fixing our train system. Of course prices are going to hike up on everything, namely bus passes.
Now there's this fuss over the kickbacks both Tremblay and Borque's parties have taken. I see an independant if the Gazette can call anything.
I really wish the Montreal and the Laval administration would stop wasting our money on such stupid ****. They're spending millions on a metro stations in Laval that nobody needs (seeing as there's a proper one just over the bridge), in the most dangerous pedestrian spot in laval, when we could've just spend loads less on updating and fixing our train system. Of course prices are going to hike up on everything, namely bus passes.
Now there's this fuss over the kickbacks both Tremblay and Borque's parties have taken. I see an independant if the Gazette can call anything.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,458
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
October 12th, 2005, 07:26 PM
Sometimes cities need to make investments like this to make their city more attractive to live and invest in. It could pay off in the long run if properly conceived and executed. But don't hold your breath. They've been talking about a similar waterfront rejuvenation project for DECADES in Toronto - still all talk. Meanwhile the waterfront has largely been obscured and developed with condos.
Sometimes cities need to make investments like this to make their city more attractive to live and invest in. It could pay off in the long run if properly conceived and executed. But don't hold your breath. They've been talking about a similar waterfront rejuvenation project for DECADES in Toronto - still all talk. Meanwhile the waterfront has largely been obscured and developed with condos.
