disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546 
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 27th, 2007, 07:58 PM
I think one thing to is that folks think all the damage was done 100 years or so ago, and can't figure out why things are still the way they are. It hasn't been that long since the last bording school was shut down. Deals are still being broken with native groups. Racism still exists. Segregation still exists. It's hard to move forward when these factors are at play. It will take a few generation, I believe, until the past can be put in the past...the cycle of destruction caused by destructive action TOWARDS aboriginals has to be broken.
The thing about crime stats as well is it doesn't take into account a lot of factors. How many white kids are getting away with stuff because they are white and blend in better...they aren't seen as criminals...or are given lighter sentences, while aboriginal youth are more likely to be sent to prison...for WHATEVER reason. This could be an issue and could be part of why crime stats look so unfavourably towards native folks. Most of my run ins with dicks, jerks and hoodlums who would love to do me or my property or someone elses property harm have been white. I have never encountered an aboriginal person who wants to do me any harm. Why? I have lived or stayed in areas with high numbers of aboriginal folks and never had an issue. Who do I have problems with? White assholes in bars, on whyte ave, on the street, on the LRT, on the bus, whereever. But the insistance that native folks are the ones to blame also kills self esteem in a hurry. If you are always looked at as someone who is guilty, even when you are not, well, that ain't a healthy environment....and it almost asks for trouble. Why not do something wrong if everyone looks down on you as doing something wrong anyway?
Quoting WPG
The thing is, I think so many of the things you have stated ARE happening...but that isn't getting the attention like all the negative stuff is. I've worked along side aboriginal folks who have worked DAMN hard, been very dedicated, and have done well. Sure, there are kids getting into gangs, you bet. I think things have been getting better for aboriginal youth, but I think alot of it has to do with connecting with traditional ways, revitalizing culture, giving these folks an identity....and there are alot of people working on making this happen. I think it's doing good. But, unfortunatly, again, we only here the bad stuff. I found it even discouraging how when winnipeger presented articles from crime stoppers, if a native person was involved, they were described as aboriginal. If the person was white, there was no race description involved. I think that gives a very negative impression.
I do understand what you are saying. What Winnipegger was eluding to, which I believe is needed, was that no Aboriginal leaders are publicly saying "our people are over-represented in our prisons. Stop turning to crime, and better yourselves". I would like to hear things like that. There are so many jobs available, especially in Alberta. If I were one of many Aboriginals in Winnipeg or Saskatoon, I would go west, as the Pet Shop Boys sang. Why so many insist on whining and committing crime is very, very sad. Recent reports I have just read indicate more Aboriginals in Winnipeg are participating in the workforce, and finishing school/going on to post-secondary/training, etc; this is good, and this type of headline needs to be splashed all over the news more. Too many Aboriginal youth have no good role models, which is the only explanation as to why they are joining gangs, etc. The cycle has to stop. Aboriginal youth need to stop having children, and focus on careers, etc, then have children.
I think one thing to is that folks think all the damage was done 100 years or so ago, and can't figure out why things are still the way they are. It hasn't been that long since the last bording school was shut down. Deals are still being broken with native groups. Racism still exists. Segregation still exists. It's hard to move forward when these factors are at play. It will take a few generation, I believe, until the past can be put in the past...the cycle of destruction caused by destructive action TOWARDS aboriginals has to be broken.
The thing about crime stats as well is it doesn't take into account a lot of factors. How many white kids are getting away with stuff because they are white and blend in better...they aren't seen as criminals...or are given lighter sentences, while aboriginal youth are more likely to be sent to prison...for WHATEVER reason. This could be an issue and could be part of why crime stats look so unfavourably towards native folks. Most of my run ins with dicks, jerks and hoodlums who would love to do me or my property or someone elses property harm have been white. I have never encountered an aboriginal person who wants to do me any harm. Why? I have lived or stayed in areas with high numbers of aboriginal folks and never had an issue. Who do I have problems with? White assholes in bars, on whyte ave, on the street, on the LRT, on the bus, whereever. But the insistance that native folks are the ones to blame also kills self esteem in a hurry. If you are always looked at as someone who is guilty, even when you are not, well, that ain't a healthy environment....and it almost asks for trouble. Why not do something wrong if everyone looks down on you as doing something wrong anyway?
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 27th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Quoting WPG
I hope you are right. I dunno. Like I was saying though, there is the blending in factor...there are stereotypes of natives which means they may be watched closer, which can account for higher incidents of arrest. I guess the point is, statistics aren't always what they seem. What are the conditions these crime stats are accumulated under? You know?
I don't think they (white youth) are getting away with anything. I am convinced that if someone who is white breaks the law, he/she will be treated just the same.
Member
Posts: 50
March 27th, 2007, 09:48 PM
yes, that is true. from my understanding, the majority of non native people seem to think our oppression ended hundreds of years ago; it is ridiculous. i mean, think about it in contemporary context and we still see the same treatment. for instance, the canadian army being deployed in the village of oka in 1990 against the mohawks, the burnt church incident in 2000-2002, gustafsen lake 1995, ipperwash 1995 and the list goes on and on. if this isn't oppression, i don't know what is?
of course, then we get to the major root of it: residential school. 50,000 children gone missing. this is not something that a person can just "get over". these were actual children, not animals. they were our brothers, sisters, and cousins; they were our family. they had families and people who loved them. some people have no idea the kinda pain i feel. i mourned for a long time when i found it out what had happened in these schools. i mean it's not easy when you see your elders break down and cry because of what happened to them. they were abused severely. and were lucky to make it out alive. hence the term "residential school survivors".
anyway, the bottom line is that our oppression has not ended.
yes, that is true. from my understanding, the majority of non native people seem to think our oppression ended hundreds of years ago; it is ridiculous. i mean, think about it in contemporary context and we still see the same treatment. for instance, the canadian army being deployed in the village of oka in 1990 against the mohawks, the burnt church incident in 2000-2002, gustafsen lake 1995, ipperwash 1995 and the list goes on and on. if this isn't oppression, i don't know what is?
of course, then we get to the major root of it: residential school. 50,000 children gone missing. this is not something that a person can just "get over". these were actual children, not animals. they were our brothers, sisters, and cousins; they were our family. they had families and people who loved them. some people have no idea the kinda pain i feel. i mourned for a long time when i found it out what had happened in these schools. i mean it's not easy when you see your elders break down and cry because of what happened to them. they were abused severely. and were lucky to make it out alive. hence the term "residential school survivors".
anyway, the bottom line is that our oppression has not ended.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 27th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Quoting Creeman
Not to mention how opressive racism is...and there is PLENTY of that towards aboriginals in this country. It's kinda hard to move forward when people are running you down and telling you you aren't any good.
yes, that is true. from my understanding, the majority of non native people seem to think our oppression ended hundreds of years ago; it is ridiculous. i mean, think about it in contemporary context and we still see the same treatment. for instance, the canadian army being deployed in the village of oka in 1990 against the mohawks, the burnt church incident in 2000-2002, gustafsen lake 1995, ipperwash 1995 and the list goes on and on. if this isn't oppression, i don't know what is?
of course, then we get to the major root of it: residential school. 50,000 children gone missing. this is not something that a person can just "get over". these were actual children, not animals. they were our brothers, sisters, and cousins; they were our family. they had families and people who loved them. some people have no idea the kinda pain i feel. i mourned for a long time when i found it out what had happened in these schools. i mean it's not easy when you see your elders break down and cry because of what happened to them. they were abused severely. and were lucky to make it out alive. hence the term "residential school survivors".
anyway, the bottom line is that our oppression has not ended.
of course, then we get to the major root of it: residential school. 50,000 children gone missing. this is not something that a person can just "get over". these were actual children, not animals. they were our brothers, sisters, and cousins; they were our family. they had families and people who loved them. some people have no idea the kinda pain i feel. i mourned for a long time when i found it out what had happened in these schools. i mean it's not easy when you see your elders break down and cry because of what happened to them. they were abused severely. and were lucky to make it out alive. hence the term "residential school survivors".
anyway, the bottom line is that our oppression has not ended.
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Posts: 6,470
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
March 27th, 2007, 09:54 PM
I posted this in another thread but it's quite relavent here too:
I admit i did feel a little annoyed when we discovered that my wife is living on a reserve where it is normal to fly pregnant women to edmonton for an ultrasound, but wouldn't be given the same treatment. She has to make the 12 hour drive across a river which may or may not be entirely frozen and through foot-deep mud to get there herself.
I'm not trying to take away from the crap that happens to the natives but it's a bit screwy when we're both getting discriminated against.
I posted this in another thread but it's quite relavent here too:
I admit i did feel a little annoyed when we discovered that my wife is living on a reserve where it is normal to fly pregnant women to edmonton for an ultrasound, but wouldn't be given the same treatment. She has to make the 12 hour drive across a river which may or may not be entirely frozen and through foot-deep mud to get there herself.
I'm not trying to take away from the crap that happens to the natives but it's a bit screwy when we're both getting discriminated against.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 27th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Quoting hermanntrude
Is there different coverage? Why would that be the case? Did you ever find out?
I posted this in another thread but it's quite relavent here too:
I admit i did feel a little annoyed when we discovered that my wife is living on a reserve where it is normal to fly pregnant women to edmonton for an ultrasound, but wouldn't be given the same treatment. She has to make the 12 hour drive across a river which may or may not be entirely frozen and through foot-deep mud to get there herself.
I'm not trying to take away from the crap that happens to the natives but it's a bit screwy when we're both getting discriminated against.
I admit i did feel a little annoyed when we discovered that my wife is living on a reserve where it is normal to fly pregnant women to edmonton for an ultrasound, but wouldn't be given the same treatment. She has to make the 12 hour drive across a river which may or may not be entirely frozen and through foot-deep mud to get there herself.
I'm not trying to take away from the crap that happens to the natives but it's a bit screwy when we're both getting discriminated against.
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Posts: 6,470
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
March 27th, 2007, 10:01 PM
I'm not sure how it works, but it's so unusual for a non-native to need treatment that cheap stuff just gets done for nothing and expensive stuff doesnt get done, or rather you end up paying for it. Most of the non-natives in the town are nurses anyway
I'm not sure how it works, but it's so unusual for a non-native to need treatment that cheap stuff just gets done for nothing and expensive stuff doesnt get done, or rather you end up paying for it. Most of the non-natives in the town are nurses anyway
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 27th, 2007, 10:04 PM
As far as the ultrasound...I do wonder what the deal is with that. If you find out, pass the info along to me...I'd be interested to hear. I think, though, this is obviously some kind of decision made from...someone higher. I don't think that should be held against the average person on the reserve. If there is a problem, it needs to be changed within the system.
Quoting hermanntrude
Other than this issue, what is health care like for folks on that reserve? Is it accessible to all? Is it adequate?
I'm not sure how it works, but it's so unusual for a non-native to need treatment that cheap stuff just gets done for nothing and expensive stuff doesnt get done, or rather you end up paying for it. Most of the non-natives in the town are nurses anyway
As far as the ultrasound...I do wonder what the deal is with that. If you find out, pass the info along to me...I'd be interested to hear. I think, though, this is obviously some kind of decision made from...someone higher. I don't think that should be held against the average person on the reserve. If there is a problem, it needs to be changed within the system.
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Posts: 6,470
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
March 27th, 2007, 10:09 PM
Oh it's very good. The doctor flies in every tuesday, nurses are there all the time... I cut my thumb badly one day and was stitched up in half an hour... try the same trick in edmonton....
there's a runway and medevac happens from time to time
I dont hold the situation against anyone... it's a difficult thing to deal with fairly. Ideally there'd be an ultrasound unit somewhere a bit closer but u cant have it both ways. you can either be remote or have everything u want. I suppose that's what we signed up for when we went. I'm not that upset about it cos it means she's got to come visit me :0)
Oh it's very good. The doctor flies in every tuesday, nurses are there all the time... I cut my thumb badly one day and was stitched up in half an hour... try the same trick in edmonton....
there's a runway and medevac happens from time to time
I dont hold the situation against anyone... it's a difficult thing to deal with fairly. Ideally there'd be an ultrasound unit somewhere a bit closer but u cant have it both ways. you can either be remote or have everything u want. I suppose that's what we signed up for when we went. I'm not that upset about it cos it means she's got to come visit me :0)
Newbie
Posts: 4
March 28th, 2007, 02:08 PM
I can only imagine what that was like (residential schools, etc), but on the other hand, Aboriginals in the US had it much worse. Canada bargained, while the US slaughtered. Also, imagine being Jewish, and being burned alive in many concentration camps. Attrocities have happened all over, yet only Canada's Aboriginals seem not able to march forward.
Also, I would be interested in finding out how many successful Aboriginals (those financially secure) help family? For example, Filipinos (at least in Winnipeg, although I would say this exists all over) send money back to family in the Philippines, etc. Does anyone know how First Nations' people help family? For those who leave a reserve, get a good job, do you think they send money back to family still on the reserve?
I can only imagine what that was like (residential schools, etc), but on the other hand, Aboriginals in the US had it much worse. Canada bargained, while the US slaughtered. Also, imagine being Jewish, and being burned alive in many concentration camps. Attrocities have happened all over, yet only Canada's Aboriginals seem not able to march forward.
Also, I would be interested in finding out how many successful Aboriginals (those financially secure) help family? For example, Filipinos (at least in Winnipeg, although I would say this exists all over) send money back to family in the Philippines, etc. Does anyone know how First Nations' people help family? For those who leave a reserve, get a good job, do you think they send money back to family still on the reserve?
Member
Posts: 50
March 28th, 2007, 04:04 PM
the indian wars here on the coast were just as bad as the states. i know united states's history with indians. it wasn't very pleasant at all. but of course they are still indians and my relations are in the states, too. basically, what i am trying to say is that the US Canada boarder doesn't seperate our oppression. it is one and the same.
as for sharing wealth goes, that is a huge part of my culture. i share as much as i can give and even more than that. sharing is key to learning about our communities. we have give aways all of the time. and the coastal people have things like potlatches where they give away lots of things. that is how they measure wealth, not by how much one can accumulate.
Quoting WPG
i would not take away from what our brothers and sisters have endured in the us or anywhere else in the americas. indigenous people world wide have suffered lots from colonization. i am not saying that haven't. my point is that the wounds are still fresh and the our people are still dealing with the effects.
I can only imagine what that was like (residential schools, etc), but on the other hand, Aboriginals in the US had it much worse. Canada bargained, while the US slaughtered. Also, imagine being Jewish, and being burned alive in many concentration camps. Attrocities have happened all over, yet only Canada's Aboriginals seem not able to march forward.
Also, I would be interested in finding out how many successful Aboriginals (those financially secure) help family? For example, Filipinos (at least in Winnipeg, although I would say this exists all over) send money back to family in the Philippines, etc. Does anyone know how First Nations' people help family? For those who leave a reserve, get a good job, do you think they send money back to family still on the reserve?
Also, I would be interested in finding out how many successful Aboriginals (those financially secure) help family? For example, Filipinos (at least in Winnipeg, although I would say this exists all over) send money back to family in the Philippines, etc. Does anyone know how First Nations' people help family? For those who leave a reserve, get a good job, do you think they send money back to family still on the reserve?
the indian wars here on the coast were just as bad as the states. i know united states's history with indians. it wasn't very pleasant at all. but of course they are still indians and my relations are in the states, too. basically, what i am trying to say is that the US Canada boarder doesn't seperate our oppression. it is one and the same.
as for sharing wealth goes, that is a huge part of my culture. i share as much as i can give and even more than that. sharing is key to learning about our communities. we have give aways all of the time. and the coastal people have things like potlatches where they give away lots of things. that is how they measure wealth, not by how much one can accumulate.
Newbie
Posts: 8
Location: Vancouver, BC (for now)
Location: Vancouver, BC (for now)
March 5th, 2008, 04:19 PM
I've read the stats on crime in Saskatoon and am a bit shocked. I live in the Metro Vancouver Area and is a real hellhole right now - all over - but according to the statistics I've read, Saskatoon is worse. Hard to believe. I had friends from the Lawson area visit (just moved there from Nutana) last year at this time. They were shocked by Vancouver's homelessness and open drug use. Their impression of Saskatoon and the statistics is that it really has to do with where you live.
Apparently the West side of the city (Confederation SDA) is the worse for crime and related problems. But even then, they (and others I know from Saskatoon) say it is hard to say that Saskatoon is less safe than Metro Vancouver. Vancouver is a port town and has much more flowing through it in terms of drugs, prostitution, human trafficking, etc. Homelessness here is out of control and homelessness leads to more crime. I lived in Montreal earlier this decade and it was a much safer city than Vancouver at that time.
I plan to attend the University of Saskatchewan in September, so I guess I will discover the reality of the situation soon enough. Crime is everywhere, just be smart and street savy.
I've read the stats on crime in Saskatoon and am a bit shocked. I live in the Metro Vancouver Area and is a real hellhole right now - all over - but according to the statistics I've read, Saskatoon is worse. Hard to believe. I had friends from the Lawson area visit (just moved there from Nutana) last year at this time. They were shocked by Vancouver's homelessness and open drug use. Their impression of Saskatoon and the statistics is that it really has to do with where you live.
Apparently the West side of the city (Confederation SDA) is the worse for crime and related problems. But even then, they (and others I know from Saskatoon) say it is hard to say that Saskatoon is less safe than Metro Vancouver. Vancouver is a port town and has much more flowing through it in terms of drugs, prostitution, human trafficking, etc. Homelessness here is out of control and homelessness leads to more crime. I lived in Montreal earlier this decade and it was a much safer city than Vancouver at that time.
I plan to attend the University of Saskatchewan in September, so I guess I will discover the reality of the situation soon enough. Crime is everywhere, just be smart and street savy.
Bright Spark
Posts: 271
Location: Boonies
Location: Boonies
March 5th, 2008, 05:47 PM
Well I find it hard to believe that Saskatoon is so bad. When I am in saskatoon (which is more often than when I am in alberta) I stay on the east side but I work on the West side right on Laurier Drive. I work in a business that has a lot of medications on site and I have never had a problem with crime. When we have emergencies in the wee hours of the night I am not at all concerned for my well being. I also play ringette next door and get out late sometimes and have not had a problem there either.
I don't know where they get these stats but I think they are a bit misleading. Saskatoon is a wonderful place and I feel very safe here!
Haz
Well I find it hard to believe that Saskatoon is so bad. When I am in saskatoon (which is more often than when I am in alberta) I stay on the east side but I work on the West side right on Laurier Drive. I work in a business that has a lot of medications on site and I have never had a problem with crime. When we have emergencies in the wee hours of the night I am not at all concerned for my well being. I also play ringette next door and get out late sometimes and have not had a problem there either.
I don't know where they get these stats but I think they are a bit misleading. Saskatoon is a wonderful place and I feel very safe here!
Haz
Member
Posts: 52
Location: drayton valley
Location: drayton valley
March 5th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Athabaska’s comment from above
I don't know the stats but prisons in Saskatchewan and Manitoba have way more native inmates than their percent of the population.
I question if this is because the natives are unable to learn which is right or wrong, if they chose not to do things right (according to the masses of Canada, and written in Canadian laws) or do they do crimes because they are bored, or is this the native way that has been entrenched in their lifestyle for centuries. I do think that there is a difference between “Can’t” and “Don’t Want To,” learn the way of the white man, and they are taking the “Don’t Want To, as it betters their way of life. Prison is a lot better than living on a reserve or in cities/towns as at least they get fed 3 times a day, something that they do not get at home. If anything is given in 3’s, it would be drunk 3 times a day.
Hey, I am sorry, but that is the way of the natives, and they are a very stubborn people that refuse to conform, their way is better, let them have it.
Athabaska’s comment from above
I don't know the stats but prisons in Saskatchewan and Manitoba have way more native inmates than their percent of the population.
I question if this is because the natives are unable to learn which is right or wrong, if they chose not to do things right (according to the masses of Canada, and written in Canadian laws) or do they do crimes because they are bored, or is this the native way that has been entrenched in their lifestyle for centuries. I do think that there is a difference between “Can’t” and “Don’t Want To,” learn the way of the white man, and they are taking the “Don’t Want To, as it betters their way of life. Prison is a lot better than living on a reserve or in cities/towns as at least they get fed 3 times a day, something that they do not get at home. If anything is given in 3’s, it would be drunk 3 times a day.
Hey, I am sorry, but that is the way of the natives, and they are a very stubborn people that refuse to conform, their way is better, let them have it.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,995
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
Location: Florida, Hurricane Central
March 5th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Quoting Hazmart
If you live in the University area or Sutherland, you won't have much of a problem. The problems are on the west side. 22nd Street has gone to ****, and all the blocks south to 11th have just gotten worse.
Well I find it hard to believe that Saskatoon is so bad. When I am in saskatoon (which is more often than when I am in alberta) I stay on the east side but I work on the West side right on Laurier Drive. I work in a business that has a lot of medications on site and I have never had a problem with crime. When we have emergencies in the wee hours of the night I am not at all concerned for my well being. I also play ringette next door and get out late sometimes and have not had a problem there either.
I don't know where they get these stats but I think they are a bit misleading. Saskatoon is a wonderful place and I feel very safe here!
Haz
I don't know where they get these stats but I think they are a bit misleading. Saskatoon is a wonderful place and I feel very safe here!
Haz
Bright Spark
Posts: 271
Location: Boonies
Location: Boonies
March 6th, 2008, 09:51 AM
I agree that the alphabet south streets aren't the best but I have never had a problem on 22nd.
Now I don't think that I would go to the Barry at 2 in the morning for a drink though but in general I don't feel unsafe in Saskatoon.
Quoting Toro
I stay in lakeview now, grew up in Lawson but am on the west side of the city far more than the east or north ends.
If you live in the University area or Sutherland, you won't have much of a problem. The problems are on the west side. 22nd Street has gone to ****, and all the blocks south to 11th have just gotten worse.
I agree that the alphabet south streets aren't the best but I have never had a problem on 22nd.
Now I don't think that I would go to the Barry at 2 in the morning for a drink though but in general I don't feel unsafe in Saskatoon.
