Prostitution: legal-ethical discussion-debate


Kreskin
#1
Quote:

The province is stepping up efforts to deter prostitution in the streets of Winnipeg, launching a new plan aimed to balance punishment and education.

The action plan introduces a combination of tougher penalties for the customers of prostitutes and more help for women who want to get off the streets.

"What's called the world's oldest profession should also be called the world's oldest oppression," said Attorney General Gord Mackintosh Thursday as he launched the new strategy.

Johns can now face drivers' licence suspensions if they're convicted of prostitution-related offences. Drivers would lose their licence for one year after a first conviction; subsequent convictions within a decade could result in licences being yanked for two years.

Manitoba currently can seize vehicles owned by people convicted of prostitution offences, but that can't happen if the john is driving someone else's vehicle.

The entire article at http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb-...-20060526.html

What do you think?
 
#juan
#2
I guess my biggest complaint,

would be about the exploitation of children. People who exploit children should be locked up for life. I would also lock up for life the johns who patronize child prostitutes. Take away the slimy market and the child sex trade would dissappear.
 
thecdn
#3
Wake the f up and decriminalize prostitution. It isn't going away, ever, and making it legal would stop the bad **** associated with it.

Who cares if someone wants to pay for sex and somone else wants to take money for it? Grow up and get your nose out of peoples sex lives.
 
#juan
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by thecdn

Wake the f up and decriminalize prostitution. It isn't going away, ever, and making it legal would stop the bad **** associated with it.

Who cares if someone wants to pay for sex and somone else wants to take money for it? Grow up and get your nose out of peoples sex lives.

You wake the f--- up. I sure as hell care if some slimebag is exploiting children. Prostitution is not a victimless crime if children are involved. Some of the ladies in the trade were brought in as children. If they want now to get out of the life, we should help. If you can't see that, you need help.
 
thecdn
#5
F off yourself #juan. I'm not talking about not helping children and you know that. I'm talking about prostitution in general regarding people of adult age being given criminal records for acts that shouldn't be illegal.
 
#juan
#6
Quote:

F off yourself #juan. I'm not talking about not helping children and you know that. I'm talking about prostitution in general regarding people of adult age being given criminal records for acts that shouldn't be illegal.

thecdn

I already stated my case against child exploitation and you know that. Don't tell me to f--- off again. This is not a request.

I threw your little "wake the f up" slur back at you. These forums don't need that either.
 
Naci_Sey
#7
I think it's a novel approach. Most johns cruise the streets looking for prostitutes; withdrawing their licences has an element of poetic justice.

It's a fact that most adult prostitutes began sex work as children. The AG's comment that the world's oldest profession should also be called the world's oldest oppression makes the point well.
 
FiveParadox
#8
I do think that the sex trade should be lawful, under very particular and safe circumstances. Obviously, this should not be the case where the exploitation of children is a factor, and steps should be taken and efforts made to ensure that this is not the case and to restrict this from happening. Persons are often thought to be "forced" into the trade, and to that end, we should ensure that those who do indeed decide to enter into this practice are protected and safe.

Every one in Canada, including our sex trade workers, are quite deserving of the protection of the rule of law. We should regulate the practice of prostitution to ensure that persons are engaged in this occupation, and to ensure that the negative practices often associated with prostitution continue to be unlawful, and enforced as such.
 
missile
#9
In this, the age of reality TV,why not film the "johns" at play and then show the results to the home audience. The public ridicule will do more to curb their habits than merely yanking a driver's permit.
 
Toro
#10
Prostitution should be legal.

Sex with children should not.

Its bizarre to me that, in the 21st century, we are regulating sexual behavior. If two consenting adults want to enter into a business transaction regarding sex, that's their business - not yours, not mine, not anyone else's.

Criminalizing prostitution is no different than criminalizing homosexuality.
 
Jay
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

Quote:

F off yourself #juan. I'm not talking about not helping children and you know that. I'm talking about prostitution in general regarding people of adult age being given criminal records for acts that shouldn't be illegal.

thecdn

I already stated my case against child exploitation and you know that. Don't tell me to f--- off again. This is not a request.

I threw your little "wake the f up" slur back at you. These forums don't need that either.

I don't believe this was directed at you Juan. It's a blanket statement to all who want to keep it illegal.
 
thecdn
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

I don't believe this was directed at you Juan. It's a blanket statement to all who want to keep it illegal.

Yes it was, thank you.
 
#juan
#13
thecdn

"F off yourself #juan". is not an accident. I don't want to see it again. It is up to you.
 
thecdn
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

thecdn

"F off yourself #juan". is not an accident. I don't want to see it again. It is up to you.

My post agreeing with Jays statement that mine was a blanket statement was referring to the "Wake the f up and decriminalize prostitution." comment in my post that was the third one on this thread. It was a general rant, quoting no one, about dealing with protitution.

My comment that you've quoted above is of course related to the "You wake the f--- up." comment that you directed at me after quoting my post.

I hadn't realized that it was ok for moderators to make such comments but not the common folk. Now I understand.
 
Liberalman
#15


Since we live in a country that has sexual content on TV and the movies we are getting people to have appetite about sex.

People are having sex at a younger age and people who canít have sex because of how they look would feel more comfortable going to a prostitute.

Legalized prostitution would give people more jobs.

Keep the sex workers healthy and gainfully employed.

They can get a good pension plan.

What do you think?

http://www.liberator.net/articles/prostitution.html (external - login to view)

http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/whatcountrieslegal.html (external - login to view)

http://www.fff.org/freedom/1293e.asp (external - login to view)

 
Niflmir
#16
At the very least, changes to the prostitution laws are overdue. The Fraser report was released back in 1986 after extensive studies and consultations which showed how ineffective and contradictory the current laws are.

In Canada it is perfectly legal to buy sex and sell sex. In Canada it is illegal to buy or sell sex in a safe manner. The law sanctions the existence of a contact sex trade and then proceeds to strip its consumers and workers of all forms of safety and dignity.

They have had two decades to do something about it and have done nothing, that is the worrisome aspect.
 
Agimat
#17
omg what is the world coming too, when men still are unevolved and view women as sex toys
 
Niflmir
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by AgimatView Post

omg what is the world coming too, when men still are unevolved and view women as sex toys

How about the disabled clients, like quadripeligics, who aren't interested in sex but want someone to talk to? How about these clients, who due to their disabilities or disfigurements are unable to attract a mate but feel the need for social intimacy?

Furthermore, what about the male prostitutes? Also, why isn't a woman free to choose what to do with her sexuality? How are these prostitutes sex toys? They still have the choice to refuse clients. Except under these current laws where transactions must be rushed and the prostitute may make a bad call because she doesn't have time to ask questions.

That is a very narrow minded view to hold, especially as it discounts all the work done by pro-prostitution feminists around the world and ignores the plight of the male and trans-gendered prostitute. Calling these people sex toys and dehumanizing them in that way is far more denigrating than the choices of the workers and the clients.
 
Vereya
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by AgimatView Post

omg what is the world coming too, when men still are unevolved and view women as sex toys

Sex drive in humans is sex drive in humans. it is there, and it will never go away. And it needs to be fulfilled. Some can connect this sexual fulfillment to a certain relationship, and get it within that relationship, some can't, for a variety of reasons. Some people's sexual desires are simple and conventional, and thus easy to satisfy, some people's aren't. And it concerns both males and females. So there will always be demand for prostitution, and where there is demand, there is supply. The thing is to make things safe for the people who resort to this kind of services.
 
Agimat
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

How about the disabled clients, like quadripeligics, who aren't interested in sex but want someone to talk to? How about these clients, who due to their disabilities or disfigurements are unable to attract a mate but feel the need for social intimacy?

Furthermore, what about the male prostitutes? Also, why isn't a woman free to choose what to do with her sexuality? How are these prostitutes sex toys? They still have the choice to refuse clients. Except under these current laws where transactions must be rushed and the prostitute may make a bad call because she doesn't have time to ask questions.

That is a very narrow minded view to hold, especially as it discounts all the work done by pro-prostitution feminists around the world and ignores the plight of the male and trans-gendered prostitute. Calling these people sex toys and dehumanizing them in that way is far more denigrating than the choices of the workers and the clients.

Hehehehee - Yeah sure, I'm quite a quiet person myself i'm very shy also not much confidence I'm just gonna blow £100 and go see a prostitue. Male prostitutes for ****'s sake if prostitution was not bad enough you people have even more degenerate imagionations than what I imagined, i'm sure with a country as decadent and capitilaist as yours animal-sex and gimp mask sex with youung girls will be just the norm in 10=20 years time cause that's where your heading. Don't give me all that freedom of choice bull****, a woman is designed to what her nature demands her body is designed to bear children did you study at school? - or has your left wing goverment now brainwashed you into believing that gay couples rasing children is perfectly normal and accectable, oh no sorry we're evolved now arn't we, we're so evolved that any kind of decadance or abnormalities are recognised. Do not confuse freedom of choice bull**** with desgins of a capitalist goverment that has used power to control sex and other pleasures to generate dollar symbols.

A very narrow minded view, Are you not the one who is deluded to think that a someone can be a feminist and sell her bosy and still have pride in this? - give me a break, you are more brainwashed than I thought by your capitalist scum. It's funny isn't it? - I live in a western society that rejects me and dehumanises me because of learning difficulties, yet homosexuals, transexuals are glorified for no apparent reason? does noone not see an imbalance here? - as bill hicks would say where is my commercial?. A 22 year old hetrosexual law abiding male, who didn't have such a good start in life, and had to go to a special needs school and yet triumphed or adversity, who is loyal to his partner, respects women as an equal, will be extremely proud to have children one day- is seen as abnormal, whereas any kind of depravity is seen as the norm? - can anyone help me out here? maybe I was just born too late or am too old fashioned, or maybe I can see things for what they really are?
 
Agimat
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by VereyaView Post

Sex drive in humans is sex drive in humans. it is there, and it will never go away. And it needs to be fulfilled. Some can connect this sexual fulfillment to a certain relationship, and get it within that relationship, some can't, for a variety of reasons. Some people's sexual desires are simple and conventional, and thus easy to satisfy, some people's aren't. And it concerns both males and females. So there will always be demand for prostitution, and where there is demand, there is supply. The thing is to make things safe for the people who resort to this kind of services.

Yeah, I know it's pretty sad isn't it? that people are not evolved enough to have dignity. I have not had a girlfriend for a year and you do not see much running out for a prossy. . Yes, people do have petty pleasures though, and prostitution was seen as dirty and scandalous and should be kept as such, if we are to make prostitution an acceptable buisness then what does this say to males? and their view of women... maybe it is just me, but I do not ever want to disrespect women or see them as de-valued, I just want my children to grow up in a world where women are valued, where pornography is taboo, and where sex is called love and there is no difference. I would not give myself to a women I did not have feelings for (yes, I am a male) but maybe I'm just a faggot
 
Agimat
#22
Actually, I think the japanese are extremely unique in this case, as the geisha is part of their heritage. As europeans we do not have prostitutes regarded as such, except maybe in burlesque places in France and Germany.
 
Niflmir
#23
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you actually are interested in a conversation even though by your rhetoric I believe I am just being naive.

Quote: Originally Posted by AgimatView Post

... a woman is designed to what her nature demands her body is designed to bear children did you study at school?

I assume that you don't mean this. A woman is more than a baby-producing machine, here is a woman I admire (external - login to view) for a lot of reasons, and making babies isn't one of them. Unfortunately her life was ended far too soon due to the Nazis, but that is another tale. Woman are far more than baby making machines. The amount of women who are childless and happy about that choice is large. There is nothing as insulting than to suggest to a woman that nothing she ever does will be as important as having a baby.

Quote: Originally Posted by AgimatView Post

- or has your left wing goverment now brainwashed you into believing that gay couples rasing children is perfectly normal and accectable,

Null hypothesis states that, not the left wing government. The burden of proof lies with people to prove otherwise. There is no reason a priori to believe that a gay couple will be any different than a heterosexual couple in their ability to educate their children, statistics says that.

Quote: Originally Posted by AgimatView Post

Are you not the one who is deluded to think that a someone can be a feminist and sell her bosy and still have pride in this?

A feminist is a person who believes that women and men are equal, they are not necessarily a woman. Men sell their bodies out to corporations for the purpose of performing labour, they hold a lot of pride in themself for their work, why would it be any different for a woman? There are a lot of organizations around the world whose members were prostitutes and they are proud of that fact.

What is most degrading for people in the sex trade are the crude individuals who oppress them. These are people that do no harm to society except in some non-humanist ethical views where humans can insult abstract entities. Yet, the people who view them as corrupt are quick to throw stones, denigrate, arrest and abuse in many other ways these non-harmful persons.
 
Agimat
#24
Yes, I am interested in conversation, and despite that my my rehetoric may show otherwise I always enjoy speakig to people and learning from others. It is just my own personal fears that there is increasingly no place for myself and others like me (however few they may be) in a world like this - times are gone for honest men (undertans the true meanding of these words), that traditional values are being undermined, you say about gay couples eduacting there children just as well? from what statistics exactly? where these statistics carried out by the goverment? - I say no more. I mean for a start what evidence is there to base these claims? - this law in england has only just been put into effect so there is not even enough time to know the true impact this left wing lunacy will have, to undermine trraditional values. We males can feel that we are undermined to you know.

You confuse what I say Maybe I was not clear enough, I apologise. I do not see women here just to have our babies, or as baby producing machines, I hate males that view women this way. I see it as just that women have an equal role and equal opinon in society. It is always to convenient for lefists to say that to have a child is beneath them, sure the choice is determined by the couple together whether they have children or not, but you cannot deny that to have a child in the west is seen as unfashiable and undesirable to the careerist coffee house bourgeoise "intellectuals". But I agree with you, it is unfair to say that all a women is good for is to have children, some of the most important figures in history and some of the greatest perspectives are from a woman's point of view.

Y'know society really needs to change, there is no in between people are all about extremes, you're either left or right or you're either a feminist or a male cheuvinist. I consider myself to respect women and hate chevinists, And I sympathise with some philiosophies of the left and some of the right. but yet I find it disapointing that in a majority of western countries it is fashinable to sleep around, yet when you are in a loving relationship you are resented for wanting to start a family because it would "destroy" the woman's freedoms, it's selfish, and it's a decadent capitilist mentaility in my eyes.
 
Agimat
#25
I see feminism as redundant because a woman and a man can never be equal, a woman thinks differently to a man and vice versa, woman has a different anatomy to a man etc. This is not to say they are inferior or be kept in the house like most femists think it is a males goal (Well I guess most males are animals anyway). It is only right that women have an equal footing in society as men, but there are things that women are naturally qualified for such as maternal instinct (Which I'm afraid this is where the gays raising children becomes redundant - no matter how many gays having children tv shows the goverment airs or how many goverment websites it does not change this ). I think women in the infantry for the army is lunacy, we men are the warmongers.
Last edited by Agimat; May 23rd, 2007 at 10:04 AM..Reason: mispelling
 
gc
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by AgimatView Post

...maybe it is just me, but I do not ever want to disrespect women or see them as de-valued, I just want my children to grow up in a world where women are valued...

Neither do I, but it's going to happen no matter what. So, why not make it as safe as possible for the women who choose to be prostitutes?

Secondly, if a woman chooses to be "de-valued", who are we to say to her that she is not allowed?
 
Zzarchov
#27
@ Agimat

You know, Homosexuality is common in nature, so is same sex couples raising children.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/6679315.stm (external - login to view)
 
Agimat
#28
yes but your sources are not exactly reliable are they? - the bbc do not even let us celibrate our national holiday or even Queen Victoria is not even aknowledged here, in hopes that it will not offend immigrants. The BBC make it their duty to ram homosexuality down everyones throats at every chance and brainwash our children at every chance, I mean for god's sake educating children to think that homosexual sex is as valid as hetrosexual sex is lunacy, if it was as valid hetrosexual sex then a child would be produced out of love end of ****ing story. It is not so there is no argument. The lefts are in power in Canada and in england, so homos will be gloryfied and made more important as a social experiment they will push us to the limits with their experiments see how far they can go with it till we say NO MORE! - all scientific researchers who conclude that homosexuality is the sign of a defect with be held back from showing the truth and not fundd because it will undermine their policies, did noone consider this, does no one notice that policys change when a different party is in. If you are trying to "prove" to me that homosexuality is normal in nature than you are failing miserably ESPECIALLY by showing a bbc website, the WORST website for institutionalized racism and in-equality. It has been proven that when a male feels inferior or is rejected in the animal kingdom he goes for the nearest hole, and other do it as a new experience, I'm going to stop my moaning because you people are beyond saving, I just hope you are having sex with animals and children in the future once you've got bored with gay sex move on to the next "equality" trend, but exactly where is the "equality" for the child being raised by a ****ing same sex couple? you lefties I bet never thought about that one did you? - how can a child fully recieve the equal love from both. Don't give me your new age vogue and cosmopolitan bull****, I've heard it all before. You're silly arguments pale in comparison of a tradition that has lasted since the beginnings of human civilization a gay trend since the 60's will never compare to the man and a woman it is alpha and omega yin and yang accept it. There was a bumming craze in ancient rome and Greece because they tried to be "elite" and "intellectual" and exeriment and look how it ended for them.

Just what are you people going to link me to next a site about male seahorses having babies and say that transgenders are perfectly normal give me a ****ing break. I could link you to a site saying that some animals kill the young cubs because they are ill or inferior? does this make this just in society also I do not think so.
 
Zzarchov
#29
Oh no Everyone! Agimat is onto us! Quick! Pack up your glory holes and lets run to some dark corner of the world to hide in until his prying eyes move on.

As for Rome, it had the most powerful empire the world had ever known, it had Pax Romana (the longest peace in the known world), and it did well right up until it started becoming christian and being told homosexuality is wrong..

Ya..how did that end for Rome :P
 
earth_as_one
#30
As soon as prostitution and soliciting for the purposes of prostitution are completely legal, that opens the door for government regulation. Prostitution should be government regulated. Prostitutes should have to be a minimum age, be required to tested for communicable diseases, not allowed to work while they are infectious, pay into a pension fund, belong to a union...

No I would not want anyone to work as a prostitute, but in a free country consenting adults should be free to whatever they want as long as they don't harm others or burden society. My morals or any else's morals are beside the point. What important is that harm to the individual and to society is minimized. The current system involves minors, contributes to the spread of disease and in general has very poor and dangerous working conditions.
 

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