Is penal labour acceptable?

Is penal labour acceptable?

View Poll Results: Should prisoners be given a chance to work?
Yes.	21	77.78%
No.	2	7.41%
Other answer.	4	14.81%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

JLM

#151

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Mean or I have a wife that worked with Corrections Canada fulltime and still does weekly visits for Provincial Corrections?

If your dog pisses on the rug does locking it in a cage keep it from pissing on the rug next time you let it out or would it be better to train your dog to bark at the door?

What is cheaper in the long run? Putting people in the pokey and leaving them to fester and not training them to stop pissing on the rug or putting in a few bucks for training them to bark at the door when they need to piss?

There is ZERO rehabilitation in jails and prisons. Would you pay for that?

I agree with you 99.9%, Petros- prisons should be reserved for heinous monsters and people who pose a risk to safely if not incarcerated, but regardless of where they are working is desirable...........it's accomplishes needed improvements in the community and its instills pride in the person.

petros

#152

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

How did those people become heinous monsters in the first place? The issues that would need to be dealt with first and foremost are crime prevention and mental health funding.

JLM

#153

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

How did those people become heinous monsters in the first place? The issues that would need to be dealt with first and foremost are crime prevention and mental health funding.

Oooooooooooh, oooooooh, Petros- that would be like pouring money off of Mt. Everest. We have to concentrate our resources first for the betterment of the majority. I think there is a VERY tiny minority of people who are just born evil- maybe having the double y chromosome. Science in time may get to the bottom of it.

petros

#154

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Oooooooooooh, oooooooh, Petros- that would be like pouring money off of Mt. Everest. We have to concentrate our resources first for the betterment of the majority. I think there is a VERY tiny minority of people who are just born evil- maybe having the double y chromosome. Science in time may get to the bottom of it.

Evil is one thing but it's not evil that is breaking into my garage and stealing my tools. It's a warped mind.

lone wolf

#155

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Evil is one thing but it's not evil that is breaking into my garage and stealing my tools. It's a warped mind.

Put up a motion sensor and attach 1 (one) school bell in place of the floodlight....

JLM

#156

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Evil is one thing but it's not evil that is breaking into my garage and stealing my tools. It's a warped mind.

I agree, either that or desperation.

petros

#157

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

Put up a motion sensor and attach 1 (one) school bell in place of the floodlight....

I'd like to get my mitts on a train horn.

levanty

#158

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Mean or I have a wife that worked with Corrections Canada fulltime and still does weekly visits for Provincial Corrections?

If your dog pisses on the rug does locking it in a cage keep it from pissing on the rug next time you let it out or would it be better to train your dog to bark at the door?

What is cheaper in the long run? Putting people in the pokey and leaving them to fester and not training them to stop pissing on the rug or putting in a few bucks for training them to bark at the door when they need to piss?

There is ZERO rehabilitation in jails and prisons. Would you pay for that?

Well done Petros. You've hit the nail on the head. If we could "force" them to do anything, it should be rehab/therapy. They should have to attend in order to eat.

lone wolf

#159

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

--

Compressor is a "you supply" option

JLM

#160

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by levanty

Well done Petros. You've hit the nail on the head. If we could "force" them to do anything, it should be rehab/therapy. They should have to attend in order to eat.

I think that's half of the solution- the other half is figuring out which ones will respond to it. Some people function very well as long as they are in "neutral" but as soon as you put them "in gear" they fail. At the other end of the spectrum (or maybe not so far removed) are the ones with all kinds of diplomas for passing tests with honors at prestigious institutions but yet fail at the simple test of life!

VanIsle

#161

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

That's about the same as welfare.

Yup. You can't even get Nicorettes or patches even if you can afford them.

In BC now, everyone can apply for free Nicorette or patches free of charge, courtesy of the gov't. The inmates cannot smoke inside but they do have a smoking area outside. Like everyone else, they can smoke within a 10 foot area away from the facility.

Quote: Originally Posted by levanty

Well done Petros. You've hit the nail on the head. If we could "force" them to do anything, it should be rehab/therapy. They should have to attend in order to eat.

That is a problem. The therapy is available to them. However, it is their choice and forcing would not help them anyway. It would have the same effect as forcing someone to quit smoking. The smoker when forced to quit will only quit for as long as it takes to get a cigarette. Forcing an inmate into rehab has the same effect. Judges order therapy. People go because they have been ordered to do so but nothing changes until they want it to. AA is another great example. You cannot change a person who does not see the need to do so. Mean and vile people do not see themselves as such. They put the blame on everyone else.

lone wolf

#162

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

petros

#163

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle

In BC now, everyone can apply for free Nicorette or patches free of charge, courtesy of the gov't. The inmates cannot smoke inside but they do have a smoking area outside. Like everyone else, they can smoke within a 10 foot area away from the facility.

Zero smoking or cessation aids allowed in Fed and Provincial prisons and jails in SK since 2001.

VanIsle

#164

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf

The key words here being Corrections Corp. of America. Please believe me when I tell you I know about over crowded instituions. Too many in one cell causes trouble. There is no worry (even before recent changes by gov't) that there will not be a high demand for Correctional Facilities.

petros

#165

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Corrections Corp. of America is for profit private company. The more inmates they get the more their shares and dividends are worth.

VanIsle

#166

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Zero smoking or cessation aids allowed in Fed and Provincial prisons and jails in SK since 2001.

Only about a week ago, the BC Gov't introduced the ability for all citizens to have free aid regarding quitting smoking. Inmates are allowed to vote, therefore I believe they will also be allowed the aids to help them quit and they do have a smoking area outside the bldg.
You cannot smoke inside any public place in BC including restaurant patio's. You have to smoke at least 10 feet away from the entrance to the building or even from the bldg. itself.

petros

#167

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle

Only about a week ago, the BC Gov't introduced the ability for all citizens to have free aid regarding quitting smoking. Inmates are allowed to vote, therefore I believe they will also be allowed the aids to help them quit and they do have a smoking area outside the bldg.
You cannot smoke inside any public place in BC including restaurant patio's. You have to smoke at least 10 feet away from the entrance to the building or even from the bldg. itself.

Been like that here for longer. Patches and gum aren't covered but Champix is through Rx.

damngrumpy

#168

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

In many cases those in prison are those who fell through the cracks in the system
in the first place. They are lacking in education or they did not have the opportunity
to get a proper education.
Now they are in prison and we as a society expect them to work and rightfully so.
Here is where I differ from some people. I think work should be part of the program,
and not just manual labour or low skilled labour. We should divide the prison system
into two groups, one we house people who are salvageable and could re-enter society
as productive citizens. The second group are those who are not getting out and have
been give chance after chance.
Those who can be given a new shot at life should receive an education, and training
for a trade or what ever else they want to pursue. Yes we would pay but then we
would have a person back in society with some hope, some drive and a trade, That
person would be working, paying taxes and contributing to society. Work in prison
would also give them a new view of the world, and would be constructive.
Instead of making work a punishment why not make it part of the education system?

In fact for many offences, we could set some bonus goals, if the person came out of
prison and worked at their trade and became a societal success story for a long enough
period of time they would receive a pardon based on their successful efforts.
That would be far more productive that using work as a punishment and having them do
menial tasks without training or a chance for advancement.
So yes, people in prison should work, like us it would teach self discipline and change
the thought process that put them in jail in the first place but there has to be some
incentive that allows them to progress to the point of wanting to join society instead of
having prisons as fortified warehouses of our next round of problems.

VanIsle

#169

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

How did those people become heinous monsters in the first place? The issues that would need to be dealt with first and foremost are crime prevention and mental health funding.

Some mental illnesses such as psychopaths or sociopathic psychopaths cannot be cured. We have a FM in your province in a Correctional Facility. He is a sociopath. Went to prison in the early 80's with an "indefinite sentence" and while there is no such sentence anymore, his has not been changed. He was in his 20's and is now in his 50's. We have not seen him since 1983. I would not sleep if he was in the same house as I am, over-night. He's had all kinds of treatments. He has also apparently become somewhat religious. Chances are, he will die in prison. He used to write to us everytime he was coming up for parole. The letters could have been photo copies of the first one he ever wrote. The words never changed, the story was always the same. He quit writing years ago so I assume he either doesn't try for parole or he knows the letters are not working. We answered his letters. I thought he had the right to know that he was a Grandfather. I recently wrote and told him so. His idiotic sister wanted to know if my letter was to twist the knife a little harder. Would you think I was putting a knife in your back and twisting it if you were incarcerated and did not know anything about your children and did not know you had grandchildren, and I told you about them?

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Evil is one thing but it's not evil that is breaking into my garage and stealing my tools. It's a warped mind.

Or just someone who has been taught that it's okay to steal.

petros

#170

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

CSC North Battleford?

Nuggler

#171

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Joyceville Ont. prison had a flourishing dairy herd and farm. the man closed it down.

Burritts Rapids Ont.prison farm had a dairy and crop thing going, crops to feed people as well as livestock. the man closed it down.

Looks like the man don't want the penals using their penals

There comes a time when the penal just won't work............................er so they say.

petros

#172

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Q. What is a typical day like for an incarcerated offender?
A. Inmates are up by 7:00 am and begin a work or program assignment by 8:00. During the day inmates may attend education programs, treatment programs, counseling with corrections workers, be employed in prison workshops, work in the kitchen or clean the institution.
In the evening inmates have the opportunity to engage in recreational, social and cultural activities. Visits with family members may take place when inmates are not working or attending programs. They are secured in their living quarters by 10:30 pm.

Adult Corrections - Corrections, Public Safety and Policing - Government of Saskatchewan

Nuggler

#173

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Corrections Corp. of America is for profit private company. The more inmates they get the more their shares and dividends are worth.

Coming soon to a Canada near you.

SLM

#174

Re: Is penal labour acceptable?

Oct 21st, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by levanty

Well done Petros. You've hit the nail on the head. If we could "force" them to do anything, it should be rehab/therapy. They should have to attend in order to eat.

Forced into therapy or withhold food. Wow.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler

There comes a time when the penal just won't work............................er so they say.

I was waiting for someone to make that joke,lol.

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