#1Jul 2nd, 2010
Last edited by china; Jul 2nd, 2010 at 12:50 AM..
What can i do?
#2
Re: WHAT CAN i DO?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
Not me. I'm fine with what I can do. Are you fooling yourself by saying, “What can I do? What can I, an individual, living a shoddy little life, with all its confusion and ignorance, what can I do?”
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Some of it, anyway. Ignorance exists only when you don’t know yourself. Self-knowing is wisdom.
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Speak for yourself, but if you were ignorant of all the books in the world, you'd likely not be able to type this nonsense.You may be ignorant of all the books in the world (and I hope you are), of all the latest theories, but that is not ignorance.
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Wishing to stay the same isn't ignorance, it's stupidity.Not knowing oneself deeply, profoundly, is ignorance; and you cannot know yourself if you cannot look at yourself, see yourself actually as you are, without any distortion, without any wish to change.
#3
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010
really knowing oneself is easy, one just has to get in touch with the little person inside one's
head, and start asking questions, the rest is a breeze.
head, and start asking questions, the rest is a breeze.
#4
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010
AnnaG
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........and so you agree that all the books in the world are just a nonsense.( I hope you can follow your own writing).Speak for yourself, but if you were ignorant of all the books in the world, you'd likely not be able to type this nonsense.
Last edited by Andem; Jul 5th, 2010 at 03:48 AM..Reason: fixed quote
#5
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
Apparently you can't. That's not even close to what I said. What I said was nonsense was your OP.........and so you agree that all the books in the world are just a nonsense.( I hope you can follow your own writing).
#6
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010
As the old saying goes: Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. Enlightenment is to know your Self. Books can only show you how others got to where they were when they wrote the book. They cannot contain wisdom. Wisdom comes from personal life experiences. Books only contain information, ideas and opinions, same as people. The only true teacher is yourself.
#7
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Right. Knowledge is one of the keys to wisdom, though. Without knowledge, one is ignorant. Without the knowledge of oneself, one is ignorant. Knowledge comes from books. Books are one way for people to share their knowledge with others. So is speech. So is the net. Knowledge of self comes also from observing one's reactions to other people's knowledge.As the old saying goes: Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. Enlightenment is to know your Self. Books can only show you how others got to where they were when they wrote the book. They cannot contain wisdom. Wisdom comes from personal life experiences. Books only contain information, ideas and opinions, same as people. The only true teacher is yourself.
#8
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
, really knowing oneself is easy, one just has to get in touch with the little person inside one's
head, and start asking questions, the rest is a breeze.
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sure beats talking to a bunch of squiralsA little man ?
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.and start asking questions, the rest is a breeze
-ask him where he hails from..
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG
Apparently you can,t comprehand any writtingApparently you can't. That's not even close to what I said. What I said was nonsense was your OP.
. #9
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG
Knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing. Knowledge is essential but it is the experience of applied knowledge that leads to wisdom.Right. Knowledge is one of the keys to wisdom, though. Without knowledge, one is ignorant. Without the knowledge of oneself, one is ignorant. Knowledge comes from books. Books are one way for people to share their knowledge with others. So is speech. So is the net. Knowledge of self comes also from observing one's reactions to other people's knowledge.
#10
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
No worries. You obviously can't write.,
sure beats talking to a bunch of squirals
.
-ask him where he hails from..
Apparently you can,t comprehand any writting
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
I know that, Sherlock. I implied as much.Knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing.
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Yup. I said something like that months ago. It seems to me it was in a couple similarly nonsensical threads from China that I said it in, too.Knowledge is essential but it is the experience of applied knowledge that leads to wisdom.
#11
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010
AnnaG
LINK: --
It is odd what importance we give to the printed word, to so-called sacred books. The scholars, as the laymen, are gramophones; they go on repeating, however often the records may be changed. They are concerned with knowledge, and not with experiencing. Knowledge is an impediment to experiencing. But knowledge is a safe haven, the preserve of a few; and as the ignorant are impressed by knowledge, the knower is respected and honoured. Knowledge is an addiction, as drink; knowledge does not bring understanding. Knowledge can be taught, but not wisdom; there must be freedom from knowledge for the coming of wisdom. Knowledge is not the coin for the purchase of wisdom; but the man who has entered the refuge of knowledge does not venture out, for the word feeds his thought and he is gratified with thinking. Thinking is an impediment to experiencing; and there is no wisdom without experiencing. Knowledge, idea, belief, stand in the way of wisdom. An occupied mind is not free, spontaneous, and only in spontaneity can there be discovery. An occupied mind is self-enclosing; it is unapproachable, not vulnerable, and therein lies its security. Thought, by its very structure, is self-isolating; it cannot be made vulnerable. Thought cannot be spontaneous, it can never be free. Thought is the continuation of the past, and that which continues cannot be free. There is freedom only in ending. An occupied mind creates what it is working on. It can turn out the bullock cart or the jet plane. We can think we are stupid, and we are stupid. We can think we are God, and we are our own conception: "I am That." "But surely it is better to be occupied with the things of God than with the things of the world, is it not?" What we think, we are; but it is the understanding of the process of thought that is important.
J Krishnamurti .
Knowledge is always accompanied by ignorance
A great many scientists in the West have gone into the question of the brain. They say that we are using only a very small part of the whole brain. We can observe whether this is so in ourselves, for it is part of meditation to find out—for ourselves—whether the whole brain or only a very small part is operating. Now, thought is the response of memory which has been stored through knowledge; knowledge is gathered through experience. That is, experience, knowledge, memory stored in the brain, then thought, then action. This is our pattern of living, and the whole process is based on this movement. Man has done this for the last million years. He has been caught in the cycle, which is the movement of thought. And within this area he has choice. He can go from one corner to the other and say, “This is my choice, this is my movement of freedom”—but it is always within the limited field of the known. And knowledge is always accompanied by ignorance because there is no complete knowledge about anything. So we are always in this contradictory state: knowledge and ignorance.
I don't want to sound like Mark Twain but you sure have matured in them few short days .
LINK: --
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Knowledge is one of the keys to wisdom, though. Without knowledge, one is ignorant. Without the knowledge of oneself, one is ignorant. Knowledge comes from books. Books are one way for people to share their knowledge with others. So is speech. So is the net. Knowledge of self comes also from observing one's reactions to other people's knowledge.
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Knowledge is an impediment to experiencingIt is odd what importance we give to the printed word, to so-called sacred books. The scholars, as the laymen, are gramophones; they go on repeating, however often the records may be changed. They are concerned with knowledge, and not with experiencing. Knowledge is an impediment to experiencing. But knowledge is a safe haven, the preserve of a few; and as the ignorant are impressed by knowledge, the knower is respected and honoured. Knowledge is an addiction, as drink; knowledge does not bring understanding. Knowledge can be taught, but not wisdom; there must be freedom from knowledge for the coming of wisdom. Knowledge is not the coin for the purchase of wisdom; but the man who has entered the refuge of knowledge does not venture out, for the word feeds his thought and he is gratified with thinking. Thinking is an impediment to experiencing; and there is no wisdom without experiencing. Knowledge, idea, belief, stand in the way of wisdom. An occupied mind is not free, spontaneous, and only in spontaneity can there be discovery. An occupied mind is self-enclosing; it is unapproachable, not vulnerable, and therein lies its security. Thought, by its very structure, is self-isolating; it cannot be made vulnerable. Thought cannot be spontaneous, it can never be free. Thought is the continuation of the past, and that which continues cannot be free. There is freedom only in ending. An occupied mind creates what it is working on. It can turn out the bullock cart or the jet plane. We can think we are stupid, and we are stupid. We can think we are God, and we are our own conception: "I am That." "But surely it is better to be occupied with the things of God than with the things of the world, is it not?" What we think, we are; but it is the understanding of the process of thought that is important.
J Krishnamurti .
Knowledge is always accompanied by ignorance
A great many scientists in the West have gone into the question of the brain. They say that we are using only a very small part of the whole brain. We can observe whether this is so in ourselves, for it is part of meditation to find out—for ourselves—whether the whole brain or only a very small part is operating. Now, thought is the response of memory which has been stored through knowledge; knowledge is gathered through experience. That is, experience, knowledge, memory stored in the brain, then thought, then action. This is our pattern of living, and the whole process is based on this movement. Man has done this for the last million years. He has been caught in the cycle, which is the movement of thought. And within this area he has choice. He can go from one corner to the other and say, “This is my choice, this is my movement of freedom”—but it is always within the limited field of the known. And knowledge is always accompanied by ignorance because there is no complete knowledge about anything. So we are always in this contradictory state: knowledge and ignorance.
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Cliffy,As the old saying goes: Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. Enlightenment is to know your Self. Books can only show you how others got to where they were when they wrote the book. They cannot contain wisdom. Wisdom comes from personal life experiences. Books only contain information, ideas and opinions, same as people. The only true teacher is yourself.
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As the old saying goes: Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. Enlightenment is to know your Self. Books can only show you how others got to where they were when they wrote the book. They cannot contain wisdom. Wisdom comes from personal life experiences. Books only contain information, ideas and opinions, same as people. The only true teacher is yourself
I don't want to sound like Mark Twain but you sure have matured in them few short days .
Last edited by Ron in Regina; Jul 2nd, 2010 at 06:57 PM..Reason: Added Link
#12
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
I can't think of anything more slimy in the literary world than a plagiarist.AnnaG
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:
Knowledge is an impediment to experiencing
It is odd what importance we give to the printed word, to so-called sacred books. The scholars, as the laymen, are gramophones; they go on repeating, however often the records may be changed. They are concerned with knowledge, and not with experiencing. Knowledge is an impediment to experiencing. But knowledge is a safe haven, the preserve of a few; and as the ignorant are impressed by knowledge, the knower is respected and honoured. Knowledge is an addiction, as drink; knowledge does not bring understanding. Knowledge can be taught, but not wisdom; there must be freedom from knowledge for the coming of wisdom. Knowledge is not the coin for the purchase of wisdom; but the man who has entered the refuge of knowledge does not venture out, for the word feeds his thought and he is gratified with thinking. Thinking is an impediment to experiencing; and there is no wisdom without experiencing. Knowledge, idea, belief, stand in the way of wisdom. An occupied mind is not free, spontaneous, and only in spontaneity can there be discovery. An occupied mind is self-enclosing; it is unapproachable, not vulnerable, and therein lies its security. Thought, by its very structure, is self-isolating; it cannot be made vulnerable. Thought cannot be spontaneous, it can never be free. Thought is the continuation of the past, and that which continues cannot be free. There is freedom only in ending. An...
--
At any rate: if one could not hold knowledge, one would experience an awful lot of harmful things in life. For instance, if one could not keep the knowledge that a stove is hot, one would continually experience that resting a hand on the stove would be harmful.
Knowledge is a tool. Experience is a tool. Wisdom is a tool. Emotions are tools. The more tools one can use, the better one is at life. Dumping these tools is stupid.
#13
Re: What can i do?
Jul 2nd, 2010
It's odd China never gets nailed for repeatedly breaking copy right rules. I'm not a rule nazi, but come on!
#14
Re: What can i do?
Jul 4th, 2010
AnnaG
PS ......-wisdom is more than a tool - without wisdom there aren't any tools .
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An anchor is also a tool-it has its function . it would be very stupid though to leave the anchor in the sea if you want the ship to sail .; you will only move the length of the chain.Knowledge is also a a tool which has its function but you can't function beyond what you know and what you know is very limited .Knowledge is a tool. Experience is a tool. Wisdom is a tool. Emotions are tools. The more tools one can use, the better one is at life. Dumping these tools is stupid.
PS ......-wisdom is more than a tool - without wisdom there aren't any tools .
Quote: Originally Posted by Said1
You sure are a Nazi rule, Said 1 .It's odd China never gets nailed for repeatedly breaking copy right rules. I'm not a rule nazi, but come on!
Last edited by china; Jul 4th, 2010 at 09:39 PM..
#16
Re: What can i do?
Jul 5th, 2010
gopher Quote:
A wealthy wife ?...........don't need a wisdom to find a wealthy wife gopher , just the right tools.I wish I had the wisdom to be able to find a wealthy wife.
#17
Re: What can i do?
Jul 5th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
If you didn't have the knowledge of how to lift it, or when to lift it, you'd be stuck there till you figured it out.AnnaG
An anchor is also a tool-it has its function . it would be very stupid though to leave the anchor in the sea if you want the ship to sail .; you will only move the length of the chain.
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If you know nothing, then your function is limited even further.Knowledge is also a a tool which has its function but you can't function beyond what you know and what you know is very limited .
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Explain, please. PS ......-wisdom is more than a tool
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Wrong. Without wisdom, the tool is useless. Knowledge shows you how to use the tool. Wisdom shows you how to use the tool effectively. You could have all the wisdom in the world but without the knowledge of how to use the tool, you're stuck.- without wisdom there aren't any tools .
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You escaped your crib?You sure are a Nazi rule, Said 1 .
#18
Re: What can i do?
Jul 5th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
Are you not presuming then some kind of innate self-knowledge that can be known? Isn't it more likely that such knowledge is instilled in us from our family, culture, peers, wants, desires, etc,.. so the world you are eschewing is the very thing you're actually discovering. In such a situation it would be a more pleasing world to discover, no doubt, but also a fictitious one of delusion and ignorance. Why not discover the world around and outside of yourself, read a book and gain knowledge; it might not be the world you desire but it is certainly the world that made you.Are you fooling yourself by saying, “What can I do? What can I, an individual, living a shoddy little life, with all its confusion and ignorance, what can I do?” Ignorance exists only when you don’t know yourself. Self-knowing is wisdom. You may be ignorant of all the books in the world (and I hope you are), of all the latest theories, but that is not ignorance. Not knowing oneself deeply, profoundly, is ignorance; and you cannot know yourself if you cannot look at yourself, see yourself actually as you are, without any distortion, without any wish to change.
#19
Re: What can i do?
Jul 5th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
No. Like any thoughtful person, I have asked myself that, at least the first part, but my life is not shoddy, nor am I confused or ignorant, so I was able to come up with a satisfactory answer, and then act on it. Are you fooling yourself by saying, “What can I do? What can I, an individual, living a shoddy little life, with all its confusion and ignorance, what can I do?”
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That's not what either ignorance or wisdom mean. Try a dictionary before you start uttering such false generalizations. Ignorance exists only when you don’t know yourself. Self-knowing is wisdom.
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Yes it is, actually. Ignorance is not knowing, being unaware, uninformed. You may be ignorant of all the books in the world (and I hope you are), of all the latest theories, but that is not ignorance.
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Try it some time. What the Hell's happened to you that leads you to write such facile nonsense?... you cannot know yourself if you cannot look at yourself, see yourself actually as you are,
#20
Re: What can i do?
Jul 6th, 2010 Quoting chinaAnnaG
If you didn't have the knowledge of how to lift it, or when to lift it, you'd be stuck there till you figured it outQuote:
AnnaGAn anchor is also a tool-it has its function . it would be very stupid though to leave the anchor in the sea if you want the ship to sail .; you will only move the length of the chain.
.China .
I f I have the knowledge to build the ship to equip it with an anchor ,to sail the vessel and to arrive at chosen destination and to anchor it ,obviously I will have enough knowledge ..........ah, what the hell!
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Explain, please. Quote:PS ......-wisdom is more than a tool
China
Judging from your previous response to my post above,I must say it would be a waste of time to explain anything.
SottFree
[QUOTE]Are you not presuming then some kind of innate self-knowledge that can be known? Isn't it more likely that such knowledge is instilled in us from our family, culture, peers, wants, desires, etc,.. so the world you are eschewing is the very thing you're actually discovering
. In such a situation it would be a more pleasing world to discover, no doubt, but also a fictitious one of delusion and ignorance. Why not discover the world around and outside of yourself, read a book and gain knowledge; it might not be the world you desire but it is certainly the world that made you. [/QUOTE
]Jesus Christs says : be in this world but don't be of this world.
_China the plagiarist Polak says : Unless you know yourself, all around you is just an illusion .
Dexter Sinister
Love you too much Dexter to get into some silly arguments.
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Quoting chinaAre you fooling yourself by saying, “What can I do? What can I, an individual, living a shoddy little life, with all its confusion and ignorance, what can I do?”
Quote has been trimmed
No. Like any thoughtful person, I have asked myself that, at least the first part, but my life is not shoddy, nor am I confused or ignorant, so I was able to come up with a satisfactory answer, and then act on it. Quote: Ignorance exists only when you don’t know yourself. Self-knowing is wisdom.
That's not what either ignorance or wisdom mean. Try a dictionary before you start uttering such false generalizations. Quote: You may be ignorant of all the books in the world (and I hope you are), of all the latest theories, but that is not ignorance.
Yes it is, actually. Ignorance is not knowing, being unaware, uninformed. Quote: ... you cannot know yourself if you cannot look at yourself, see yourself actually as you are,
Try it some time. What the Hell's happened to you that leads you to write such facile nonsense? __________________________
"...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true."
Love you too much Dexter to get into some silly arguments.
Last edited by china; Jul 5th, 2010 at 11:09 PM..
+1
#21 Top Rated PostRe: What can i do?
Jul 6th, 2010
china,
I like Krishnamurti. I like that he turned down the job of messiah and what he had to say but he was not the only wise person on the planet. His views are not new but they were his spin on them. To have a well rounded personal perspective on life, I would suspect that a person should read as many of the great thinkers out there as possible, but most of all, one should do the silence and introspection thing more than read what others thought. Reading others can only really give you points of reference to compare your own musings.
I like Krishnamurti. I like that he turned down the job of messiah and what he had to say but he was not the only wise person on the planet. His views are not new but they were his spin on them. To have a well rounded personal perspective on life, I would suspect that a person should read as many of the great thinkers out there as possible, but most of all, one should do the silence and introspection thing more than read what others thought. Reading others can only really give you points of reference to compare your own musings.
#22
Re: What can i do?
Jul 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
Each person could do very many good things in their life. If he really wants to do it and if he works hard and doggedly goes to his goals.[B]Are you fooling yourself by saying, “What can I do? What can I, an individual, living a shoddy little life, with all its confusion and ignorance, what can I do?”
About our wish to change our life, Victor Tsoy has a very good song about it: «I want a changes!»
YouTube - -- quotquot
Last edited by Lessie; Jul 6th, 2010 at 07:13 PM..
#23
Re: What can i do?
Jul 23rd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by china
The knowledge of how to quote properly is worth a thousand words.AnnaG
Quoting chinaAnnaGIf you didn't have the knowledge of how to lift it, or when to lift it, you'd be stuck there till you figured it out
AnnaG
.China .
I f I have the knowledge to build the ship to equip it with an anchor ,to sail the vessel and to arrive at chosen destination and to anchor it ,obviously I will have enough knowledge ..........ah, what the hell!
Explain, please.
China
Judging from your previous response to my post above,I must say it would be a waste of time to explain anything.
SottFree
Quote:Are you not presuming then some kind of innate self-knowledge that can be known? Isn't it more likely that such knowledge is instilled in us from our family, culture, peers, wants, desires, etc,.. so the world you are eschewing is the very thing you're actually discovering
. In such a situation it would be a more pleasing world to discover, no doubt, but also a fictitious one of delusion and ignorance. Why not discover the world around and outside of yourself, read a book and gain knowledge; it might not be the world you desire but it is certainly the world that made you. [/QUOTE
]Jesus Christs says : be in this world but don't be of this world.
_China the plagiarist Polak says : Unless you know yourself, all around you is just an illusion .
Dexter Sinister
Love you too much Dexter to get into some silly arguments.
#24
Re: What can i do?
Jul 23rd, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Hi Cliffy , sorry with such a late response to your post . Yes I like Krishnamurti also ( as anyone can tell by my posts ;[ met him in Ca. , in, 78 ] ).......yes there are many "great "thinkers " -that's the problem with this world .What 's so great with" the thinking"'.china,
]
Cliffy
QUOTE]china,
I like Krishnamurti. I like that he turned down the job of messiah and what he had to say but he was not the only wise person on the planet. His views are not new but they were his spin on them. To have a well rounded personal perspective on life, I would suspect that a person should read as many of the great thinkers out there as possible, but most of all, one should do the silence and introspection thing more than read what others thought. Reading others can only really give you points of reference to compare your own musings.
Last edited by china; Jul 23rd, 2010 at 09:02 PM..
#25
Re: What can i do?
Aug 15th, 2010
The difficulty in implementing that advice is the cognitive dissonance which self evaluation will inevitably produce. In the course of natural human development the mind creates false self-images as defensive mechanisms against self hatred. This makes an objective self evaluation impossible at worst and an emotionally painful experience at best.
#26
Re: What can i do?
Aug 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Radrook
lmao Unless one loves and likes oneself.The difficulty in implementing that advice is the cognitive dissonance which self evaluation will inevitably produce. In the course of natural human development the mind creates false self-images as defensive mechanisms against self hatred. This makes an objective self evaluation impossible at worst and an emotionally painful experience at best.
If you can't be truthful with yourself, you're pretty much screwed ..... by yourself.
Quote: Originally Posted by china
You like Krishnamurti yet you berate thinking? lmaoHi Cliffy , sorry with such a late response to your post . Yes I like Krishnamurti also ( as anyone can tell by my posts ;[ met him in Ca. , in, 78 ] ).......yes there are many "great "thinkers " -that's the problem with this world .What 's so great with" the thinking"'.