Knowledge an impediment to understanding the new.

china

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To discover anything new you must start on your own; you must start on a journey completely denuded, especially of knowledge, because it is very easy, through knowledge and belief, to have experiences; but those experiences are merely the products of self-projection and therefore utterly unreal, false. If you are to discover for yourself what is the new, it is no good carrying the burden of the old, especially knowledge—the knowledge of another, however great. You use knowledge as a means of self-projection, security, and you want to be quite sure that you have the same experiences as the Buddha or the Christ or whomever. But a man who is protecting himself constantly through knowledge is obviously not a truth-seeker...
For the discovery of truth there is no path...When you want to find something new, when you are experimenting with anything, your mind has to be very quiet, has it not? If your mind is crowded, filled with facts, knowledge, they act as an impediment to the new; the difficulty for most of us is that the mind has become so important, so predominantly significant, that it interferes constantly with anything that may be new, with anything that may exist simultaneously with the known. Thus knowledge and learning are impediments for those who would seek, for those who would try to understand that which is timeless.

 

Dexter Sinister

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To discover anything new you must start on your own; you must start on a journey completely denuded, especially of knowledge...
Explain in the context of that remark how science has managed to make such spectacular progress in the last 400 years or so. It's built on the discoveries of those who went before, on prior knowledge, there's no other way to do it. Do you ever actually think about the meaning and implications of the stuff you write before letting your fingers go wild on the keyboard?
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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lmao To discover anything new one must begin without any knowledge? That's just freakin hilarious.
If Fleming had no knowledge of science he would not have been able to discover and develop penicillin.
If you didn't know what a doorknob was, you would take quite a while to figure out how to open a door.
If you didn't know what a pencil was you'd likely use it for picking your teeth, or use it as a fork.
If you didn't know that falls cause injury, you'd be leaping into the first hole in the ground you encountered.
If you didn't know that Mr. Grizzly bear was dangerous to your health, you'd try petting the pretty, fuzzy creature.
roflmao my ribs hurt now
 

china

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The Dexter Sinister
Explain in the context of that remark how science has managed to make such spectacular progress in the last 400 years or so. It's built on the discoveries of those who went before, on prior knowledge, there's no other way to do it. Do you ever actually think about the meaning and implications of the stuff you write before letting your fingers go wild on the keyboard?
Knowledge is conditioning. Knowledge does not give freedom. One may know how to build an airplane and fly to the other end of the world in a few hours, but this is not freedom. Knowledge is not the creative factor, for knowledge is continuous, and that which has continuity can never lead to the implicit, the imponderable, the unknown. Knowledge is a hindrance to the open, to the unknown. Without freedom, without the open mind, there can be no understanding. Understanding does not come with knowledge. In the interval between words, between thoughts, comes understanding; this interval is silence unbroken by knowledge, it is the open, the imponderable, the implicit.Can there be discovery without knowledge Dexter ?" Discovery takes place, not when the mind is crowded with knowledge, but when knowledge is absent; only then is there stillness and space, and in this state understanding or discovery comes into being. Knowledge is undoubtedly useful at one level, but at another it is positively harmful. When knowledge is used as a means of self-aggrandizement, to puff oneself up, then it is mischievous, breeding separation and enmity. Self-expansion is disintegration, whether in the name of God, of the Forum, or of an ideology. Knowledge at one level, though conditioning, is necessary: language, technique, and so on. This conditioning is a safeguard, an essential for outer living; but when this conditioning is used psychologically, when knowledge becomes a means of psychological comfort, gratification, then it inevitably breeds conflict and confusion. Besides, what do you mean by knowing Dexter ? What actually do you know? You mean you have lots of information, data about many things. You have gathered certain facts; and then what? Does information about the disaster of war prevent wars? You have, I am sure, plenty of data about the effects of anger and violence within oneself and in society; but has this information put an end to hate and antagonism? You have this vast information, and are you any less ambitious, less violent, less self-centred? Because you have studied revolutions, the history of inequality, are you free from feeling superior, giving importance to yourself( eg . I am intelligent)? ? Because you have extensive knowledge of the world's miseries and disasters, do you love? Besides, what is it that you know, of what have you knowledge? Knowledge is experience accumulated through the ages. In one form it is tradition, and in another it is instinct, both conscious and unconscious. The hidden memories and experiences, whether handed down or acquired, act as a guide and shape our action; these memories, both racial and individual, are essential, because they help and protect man.
Action shaped and guided by fear is no action at all. Action which is the outcome of racial prejudices, fears, hopes, illusions, is conditioned; and all conditioning, , only breeds further conflict and sorrow. You are conditioned as a christian in accordance with a tradition which has been going on for centuries; and you respond to stimuli, to social changes and conflicts, as a christian. You respond according to your conditioning, according to your past experiences, knowledge, so new experience only conditions further. Experience according to a belief, according to an ideology, is merely the continuation of that belief, the perpetuation of an idea. Such experience only strengthens belief. Idea separates, and your experience according to an idea, a pattern, makes you more separative. Experience as knowledge, as a psychological accumulation, only conditions, and experience is then another way of self-aggrandizement Knowledge as experience at the psychological level is a hindrance to understanding. Experience, knowledge, which is memory, is useful at certain levels; but experience as a means of strengthening the psychological "me," the ego, only leads to illusion and sorrow. And what can we know if the mind is filled with experiences, memories, knowledge? Can there be experiencing if we know? Does not the known prevent experiencing? You may know the name of that flower, but do you thereby experience the flower? Experiencing comes fist, and the naming only gives strength to the experience. The naming prevents further experiencing.
Knowledge is superficial, and can the superficial lead to the deep? Can the mind, which is the result of the known, of the past, ever go above and beyond its own projection? To discover, it must stop projecting. Without its projections, there is no mind. Knowledge, the past, can project only that which is the known. The instrument of the known can never be the discoverer. The known must cease for discovery; the experience must cease for experiencing. Knowledge is a hindrance to understanding. So Dexter,what have you left if you are without knowledge, experience, memory? You are then nothing. Are you anything more than that now? When you say, without knowledge we are nothing,you are merely making a verbal assertion without experiencing that state. When you make that statement there is a sense of fear, the fear of being naked. Without these accretions you are nothing - which is the truth. And why not be that? Why all these pretensions and conceits? You have clothed this nothingness with fancies, with hopes, with various comforting ideas; but beneath these coverings you are nothing, not as some philosophical abstraction, but actually nothing. How ashamed you are to say you do not know!You cover the fact of not knowing with words and information. Actually, you do not know your wife, Dexter ,your neighbour; how can you when you do not know yourself? You have a lot of information, conclusions, explanations about yourself, but you are not aware of that which is, the implicit. Explanations, conclusions, called knowledge, prevent you from experiencing of that Which Is .
 
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Dexter Sinister

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Well, I dunno what most of that means, and I'm not inclined to spend any time or effort puzzling it out. Page-length paragraphs do not lend themselves to clear exposition. Try answering the question directly instead of offering that New Age word salad (credit to Alley for that phrase) you like to toss: if knowledge is an impediment to understanding the new, explain how it is that science manages to figure out new things every day by extending and augmenting prior knowledge.

See if you can write a few simple declarative sentences in a row that make sense. "...knowledge is continuous, and that which has continuity can never lead to the implicit..." What the Hell could that possibly mean? I know what all the individual words mean, but that sequence of them is meaningless. The first three words, knowledge is continuous, are a false claim, knowledge is not continuous, there are great gaps in what we know, that's why people are still doing science, and the rest of it is just gibberish.
 

china

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Dexter Sinister,

The first three words, knowledge is continuous, are a false claim, knowledge is not continuous, there are great gaps in what we know, that's why people are still doing science, and the rest of it is just gibberish.
These great gaps are the very reason why knowledge is continuous , maestro ....... if you know what I mean .
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
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AnnaG
lmao To discover anything new one must begin without any knowledge? That's just freakin hilarious.
If Fleming had no knowledge of science he would not have been able to discover and develop penicillin.
If you didn't know what a doorknob was, you would take quite a while to figure out how to open a door.
If you didn't know what a pencil was you'd likely use it for picking your teeth, or use it as a fork.
If you didn't know that falls cause injury, you'd be leaping into the first hole in the ground you encountered.
If you didn't know that Mr. Grizzly bear was dangerous to your health, you'd try petting the pretty, fuzzy creature.
roflmao my ribs hurt now

Still here eh? Well make sure you don,t hurt your ribs.
Have a nice day.
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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To discover if a new mushroom is poisonous you must eat it; ignore your analytical chemistry and biology teachings those experiences are merely the products of self-projection and therefore utterly unreal, false. If you are to discover for yourself whether it is poisonous, it is no good carrying the burden of the old, especially knowledge—the knowledge of another, however great. You use knowledge as a means of self-projection, security, and you do not want to die. But a man who is protecting himself constantly through knowledge is obviously not a truth-seeker...
For the discovery of truth there is no path...When you want to find a new poison, when you are experimenting with anything, your mind has to be very quiet--even dead--has it not? If your mind is crowded, filled with facts, knowledge, they act as an impediment to the discovery of poisons; the difficulty for most of us is that life is so important, so predominantly significant, that it interferes constantly with anything that may be poisonous, with anything that may exist simultaneously with the known. Thus knowledge and learning are impediments for those who would seek, for those who would try to understand that which is timeless: death by poison.


The above is my interpretation of China's words.
 
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Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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A pity that you are psychologically incapable of going beyond the words ;if you know what I mean .

Sure, I go beyond the words to make humor where none was intended. It is you who get stuck up on the words and then whine childishly and throw petty insults. You seem to be the conditioned one here, China.

The rest of us use knowledge like rungs on a ladder to climb higher. Apparently you use them to stub your shins. Well, keep crying out in pain, if you must. Nobody is forcing you to read between the lines. We all tried to elucidate you here.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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LOL

That is some funny stuff!

Seriously China, having to rebuild the wheel every time you engineer a car, or to do the same to any other piece of knowledge, is retarded, by definition.

Of course some discoveries are made unintentionally. But not most. Most investigations and elucidation of causal mechanisms stem from some a priori reasoning, based on understanding of some aspect of a system.

Blindly stabbing into the dark is a waste of time and resources.
 
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AnnaG

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Dexter Sinister,

These great gaps are the very reason why knowledge is continuous , maestro ....... if you know what I mean .
I think I do, but you are stating it wrongly. Knowledge itself is not continuous, but the quest for knowledge is.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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AnnaG


Still here eh? Well make sure you don,t hurt your ribs.
Have a nice day.
Yup, still here. I am a sucker for a belly laugh and you give me plenty. Your OP is completely inane but if it were factual you would not have the knowledge of me saying that my ribs hurt in order to reply to the comment.
If you had no prior knowledge of what your keyboard was for, you'd not be typing out your gibberish here. You seem to recognize certain other posters here so that, my friend is PRIOR knowledge and you use it constantly.
 

AnnaG

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ccidental Scientific Discoveries: Malaria

by Tatsiana in History, February 28, 2009 Discovery of the drugs that cure the disease.


image source



image source
The most amazing discoveries in science happen by accident and a disease known as malaria was no exception. Malaria is a recurring disease marked by severe chills and fever. It is transmitted
Nuts. Darwin didn't develop the idea of natural selection by accident. He used observation and kept adding to the idea based on prior knowledge. Now we have an accumulated theory built upon prior knowledge we wouldn't have if Darwin didn't utilize his prior knowledge.
I think you'd be doing yourself a favor if you stayed away from the philosophy forum. Or at least quit trying to put your own spin on stuff REAL philosophers have written.