Finding Silence

china
#1
If you have inquired into what is meditation, and have understood the whole process of thinking, you will find that when meditating , the mind is completely still. In that total stillness of the mind, there is no watcher, no observer, and therefore no experiencer at all; there is no entity who is gathering experience, which is the activity of a self-centerd mind.
So, to meditate is to purge the mind of its self-centered activity. And if you have come this far in meditation, you will find there is silence, a total emptiness. The mind is uncontaminated by society; it is no longer subject to any influence, to the pressure of any desire. It is completely alone, and being alone, untouched, it is innocent. Therefore there is a possibility for that which is timeless, eternal, to come into being.
This whole process is meditation.
 
Praxius
#2
I know a lot of people talk about meditation being a good thing and all of that, but one thing I never understood about meditation, is what's the point?

I mean, life is short..... why waste time with moments of nothingness? You clear your mind, all your surroundings are gone, and from how it always sounds, it's like a void in your life where nothing happens, nothing is done.

Sure it might be relaxing, but so is sleeping.

I guess I just come from the side of things where I would rather seek moments of vision, rather then moments of nothingness.

Or is it nothingness?
 
diamond lady
#3
A nice story



Once upon a time, there lived in Basra an old man whose only occupation was caring for and loving his only son who was a handsome young man. The old man invested all his money on his son's education. The young man went away for a few years and acquired an education at a well known university under the great scholars of that age. The day had arrived for the son to return from his studies and the old man waited at the door for his son. When the son came and met his father, the old man looked into his eyes and felt great disappointment. "What have you learnt my son?" he asked, "I have learnt everything there was to be learnt, father", he said. "But have you learnt what cannot be taught?" asked the father. "Go, my son and learn what cannot be taught", said the old man. The young man went back to his master and asked him to teach him what cannot be taught. "Go away to the mountains with these four hundred sheep and come back when they are one thousand", said the master. The young man went to the mountains and became a shepherd. There for the first time he encountered a silence. He had no one to talk to. The sheep did not understand his language. In his desperation, he would talk to them but they would look back at him as if to say he was stupid. Slowly but surely he began to forget all his worldly knowledge, his ego, his pride and he became quiet like the sheep and great wisdom and humility came to him. At the end of two years when the number of sheep had grown to one thousand, he returned to his master and fell on his feet. "Now you have learnt what cannot be taught," said the master.
 
DurkaDurka
#4
Once upon a time, a man wanted silence. He drank 30 ounces of whiskey and hung him self. Don't need to meditate or worship Allah Durka to achieve that.
 
talloola
#5
My daughter does deep meditation, and has described to me what she experiences
while in such a state.
I cannot do it, I cannot even begin, I have a busy mind, that can't/doesn't want to.
I don't feel I am missing out on anything I can experience while fully conscience, or fully aware.
I know it is different during meditation, than anything I can experience, but I
do feel I can be aware of the 'power of quiet', and the good it does, without
meditating.
I too, wonder what good it does, and I truly believe it is good for those who
want it to, and for those who don't, they have their own place to go if they
wish to experience something similar.
It seems to be a very religious experience, and I have no connection to spirits
or religion, hence, no interest.
I would like to know how others think about this subject.
 
karrie
#6
Praxius, you questioned as to why, and I felt the same way for a long time. The whole notion made no sense to me. But, I've been sent for guided imagery therapy, which is a form of meditation, to help deal with certain medical issues, and I can't even begin to tell you how well it works, and how valuable it is. It has a lot of benefits to one's health, from lowered cholesterol and blood pressure, to calmer nerves.
 
china
#7
Praxius,
Quote:

Or is it nothingness?

You are the only person who can answer this very question Praxius .
 
china
#8
diamond lady,
Quote:

Once upon a time, there lived in Basra an old man whose only occupation was caring for and loving his only son who was a handsome young man. The old man invested all his money on his son's education. The young man went away for a few years and acquired an education at a well known university under the great scholars of that age. The day had arrived for the son to return from his studies and the old man waited at the door for his son. When the son came and met his father, the old man looked into his eyes and felt great disappointment. "What have you learnt my son?" he asked, "I have learnt everything there was to be learnt, father", he said. "But have you learnt what cannot be taught?" asked the father. "Go, my son and learn what cannot be taught", said the old man. The young man went back to his master and asked him to teach him what cannot be taught. "Go away to the mountains with these four hundred sheep and come back when they are one thousand", said the master. The young man went to the mountains and became a shepherd. There for the first time he encountered a silence. He had no one to talk to. The sheep did not understand his language. In his desperation, he would talk to them but they would look back at him as if to say he was stupid. Slowly but surely he began to forget all his worldly knowledge, his ego, his pride and he became quiet like the sheep and great wisdom and humility came to him. At the end of two years when the number of sheep had grown to one thousand,...

Quote has been trimmed
Great story diamond lady ;simple and wise .
 
L Gilbert
#9
Your head seems to be full of thoughts, CHina. Definitely not empty. So as a person with so much thought running around between your ears, how can you be telling everyone about what it is like to be empty-headed?
 
Cliffy
#10
Everybody meditates in their own way. The formal practice of meditation, as in the Buddhist or Hindu traditions, is useful for health reasons, but for some it becomes an obsession and that is an unhealthy escapism from reality. I really don't think enlightenment can come from escaping daily life but from embracing it fully with all its dichotomy: blood, guts, joy, pain, ecstasy, suffering and love/hate.

When a person comes to accept life as it is without judgment or attachment, then they are really alive. They can experience the full gamut of feelings without being stuck in the moment or clinging to the feeling. Suffering is holding on to negative feelings. Elation is letting go so the next feeling can be experienced without the cloud of the previous getting in the way.
 
talloola
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Praxius, you questioned as to why, and I felt the same way for a long time. The whole notion made no sense to me. But, I've been sent for guided imagery therapy, which is a form of meditation, to help deal with certain medical issues, and I can't even begin to tell you how well it works, and how valuable it is. It has a lot of benefits to one's health, from lowered cholesterol and blood pressure, to calmer nerves.

If this works for you Karrie, then do it, obviously there is something good in it
for you, and yes, if it has a medical healing aspect, then that is positive.
 
china
#12
Praxius[quote]
I know a lot of people talk about meditation being a good thing and all of that, but one thing I never understood about meditation, is what's the point?[/quote

A meditation is a listening process of self-knowing in which there is no outer or inner compulsion, no fear, no judgment, no conflict, and as an awareness in the movement of action of everything that we do, so that each one may be a light unto himself .

I am alone. I sit completely still. I am quiet. I watch my thoughts and all the feelings that go with them. As I watch, my mind slows down.

I find serenity. I search for what is behind my thoughts and feelings, and what is behind that, and even behind that. There is peace.

I listen. I hear music. The notes are of a high pitch. Listening to this music gives me the feeling of watching the stars on a clear night. I call it ‘universal music’. There is a flow of energy. I relax into it.

My mind calls me and I go back into thought. I get lost in thought. I wake up to this and ask myself, “Is this what I want to do now?”

Again I watch my mind and its wanderings, and the whole process of awareness and listening is repeated. I see light. Some of this light is daylight coming through my eyelids, but I know from experience that some of it is there in total darkness. I call it ‘universal light’.

Again there is thought. I visualise the sun radiating golden and white light. I am bathed in this light. I visualise the valley and each member of the community in this light.

There is thought again as I think of the problems we have together.
Insight into some of our difficulties comes to me. I start being creative, but the cultivation of my creativity must wait. It is difficult to wait, as I have to wait until others are ready. I wait.


I look and see beauty, two beautiful, transcendent eyes. I look into those eyes. The flow of energy increases. I am lost in adoration. I sense a presence. It is very real. It is alive and close to me, very close. We are one.


I am back again in thought, but the feeling of love remains. I am glowing with good vibrations. Creativity calls. I must return to the world of activity. May the blessing I feel stay with me, and may I be able to share it with others.

.
Last edited by china; Jan 1st, 2009 at 05:31 AM..
 
Nuggler
#13
Finding Silence


Would that you would find some.


 
china
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

Finding Silence


Would that you would find some.


You too Nuggler .
Happy New Year ,Love China
 
china
#15
[quote]
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

praxiusQuote: i know a lot of people talk about meditation being a good thing and all of that, but one thing i never understood about meditation, is what's the point?[/quote a meditation is a listening process of self-knowing in which there is no outer or inner compulsion, no fear, no judgment, no conflict, and as an awareness in the movement of action of everything that we do, so that each one may be a light unto himself .
i am alone. I sit completely still. I am quiet. I watch my thoughts and all the feelings that go with them. As i watch, my mind slows down.
I find serenity. I search for what is behind my thoughts and feelings, and what is behind that, and even behind that. There is peace.
i listen. I hear music. The notes are of a high pitch. Listening to this music gives me the feeling of watching the stars on a clear night. I call it ‘universal music’. There is a flow of energy. I relax into it.
my mind calls me and i go back into thought. I get lost in thought. I...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
 
china
#16

True newness is really a growth in seeing. Seeing grows on its own initiative and we can’t force it by following a formula or pattern, however novel it seems. It is not a creation of the brain. Thought must be quiet for the new to enter. And when it comes our hearts and minds will find a way of expressing it.
 
china
#17
Cliffy ,

Quote:

When a person comes to accept life as it is without judgment or attachment, then they are really alive. They can experience the full gamut of feelings without being stuck in the moment or clinging to the feeling. Suffering is holding on to negative feelings. Elation is letting go so the next feeling can be experienced without the cloud of the previous getting in the way.

[/QUOTE]

Obviously that is your way of living ,meditating .Like you said we all have our own ways - let's leave it at that .
 
Cliffy
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

Cliffy ,

Obviously that is your way of living ,meditating .Like you said we all have our own ways - let's leave it at that .[/quote]

China,

I'm not debating you on this subject, just expressing my take on the matter of meditation. Isn't that how we learn to understand others?
 
china
#19
Quote:

Isn't that how we learn to understand others?

There is only one person that you have to understand Cliffy, Yourself .

Read daomond lady's post Cliffy ; wisest post in this thread :

Quote:

Once upon a time, there lived in Basra an old man whose only occupation was caring for and loving his only son who was a handsome young man. The old man invested all his money on his son's education. The young man went away for a few years and acquired an education at a well known university under the great scholars of that age. The day had arrived for the son to return from his studies and the old man waited at the door for his son. When the son came and met his father, the old man looked into his eyes and felt great disappointment. "What have you learnt my son?" he asked, "I have learnt everything there was to be learnt, father", he said. "But have you learnt what cannot be taught?" asked the father. "Go, my son and learn what cannot be taught", said the old man. The young man went back to his master and asked him to teach him what cannot be taught. "Go away to the mountains with these four hundred sheep and come back when they are one thousand", said the master. The young man went to the mountains and became a shepherd. There for the first time he encountered a silence. He had no one to talk to. The sheep did not understand his language. In his desperation, he would talk to them but they would look back at him as if to say he was stupid. Slowly but surely he began to forget all his worldly knowledge, his ego, his pride and he became quiet like the sheep and great wisdom and humility came to him. At the end of two years when the number of sheep had grown to one thousand,...

Quote has been trimmed
 
Cliffy
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

There is only one person that you have to understand Cliffy, Yourself .:

I am aware of that. But what are all these other clowns doing in our reality if we don't need them? They are there for a reason. We need their input to understand ourselves. It is through the interaction with others, studying our reactions to them and theirs to us. We meditate when we review our day, process the data and come to conclusions and understanding of what it all means to us. Meditation can be a process of assimilating information. That Assimilation is the route to wisdom.

We have to quiet the mind, freeing it from the random mundane thoughts that babble on in the background of our minds in order to process.
 
talloola
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I am aware of that. But what are all these other clowns doing in our reality if we don't need them? They are there for a reason. We need their input to understand ourselves. It is through the interaction with others, studying our reactions to them and theirs to us. We meditate when we review our day, process the data and come to conclusions and understanding of what it all means to us. Meditation can be a process of assimilating information. That Assimilation is the route to wisdom.

We have to quiet the mind, freeing it from the random mundane thoughts that babble on in the background of our minds in order to process.

I guess meditation is suppose to 'free' the mind of everything, so that it has
no thought process going on at all, 'blank', a rest for the brain. What is the
brain doing while it is in deep meditation. Is it the same as the body, after
a long sleep, revived and more fresh? Can one think clearer after meditation?
I guess it's like shutting off the motor for awhile. I will never know, and I
don't think I'm alone. Are people who meditate in a better place 'mentally' than
those who don't?
 
china
#22
Hi talloola

[QUOTE]
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

I guess meditation is suppose to 'free' the mind of everything, so that it has
no thought process going on at all, 'blank', a rest for the brain. What is the
brain doing while it is in deep meditation. Is it the same as the body, after
a long sleep, revived and more fresh? Can one think clearer after meditation?
I guess it's like shutting off the motor for awhile.

Well ,if you shut your motor off, you can start it up again .I'm not sure you can do that with a brain ,you'd be dead .But you can disengage the motor from the transmission
and put it in neutral ; you can also disengage your thoughts from the brain by watching your thoughts , going beyond them, not judging them, following them till the end .It is very important to search what is beyond your thought and feelings .Again, don't judge ,take things for what they are .
 
talloola
#23
[quote=china;1034210]Hi talloola

Quote:


Well ,if you shut your motor off, you can start it up again .I'm not sure you can do that with a brain ,you'd be dead .But you can disengage the motor from the transmission
and put it in neutral ; you can also disengage your thoughts from the brain by watching your thoughts , going beyond them, not judging them, following them till the end .It is very important to search what is beyond your thought and feelings .Again, don't judge ,take things for what they are .

Seems reasonable. My daughter suggested that I learn to meditate, because I
fight going to sleep at night, stay awake till I can't. I don't use any medication, refuse to do that, I use my tv to relax
so that I can sleep, according to her, meditation will do that, but, and a big
but, one has to relax to meditate, so it is just a circle for me, so I think I
will use the tv.
And I suppose it comes down to the point that, if you 'want' to you 'can'.
 
Praxius
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by diamond ladyView Post

A nice story
Once upon a time, there lived in Basra an old man whose only occupation was caring for and loving his only son who was a handsome young man. The old man invested all his money on his son's education. The young man went away for a few years and acquired an education at a well known university under the great scholars of that age. The day had arrived for the son to return from his studies and the old man waited at the door for his son. When the son came and met his father, the old man looked into his eyes and felt great disappointment. "What have you learnt my son?" he asked, "I have learnt everything there was to be learnt, father", he said. "But have you learnt what cannot be taught?" asked the father. "Go, my son and learn what cannot be taught", said the old man. The young man went back to his master and asked him to teach him what cannot be taught. "Go away to the mountains with these four hundred sheep and come back when they are one thousand", said the master. The young man went to the mountains and became a shepherd. There for the first time he encountered a silence. He had no one to talk to. The sheep did not understand his language. In his desperation, he would talk to them but they would look back at him as if to say he was stupid. Slowly but surely he began to forget all his worldly knowledge, his ego, his pride and he became quiet like the sheep and great wisdom and humility came to him. At the end of two years when the number of...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
I do that all the time...... but if you have already experienced those moments where everything you have learned means nothing in your current situation and thus you "Forget" everything you have been taught during that time, what did you actually learn that can not be taught?

That all the worldly education you have gathered from others is usually usless outside of society unless it is based on survival practices?

Frig, I could have told you that.

And in the same sense, if I head into the desert for 40 days and 40 nights, I bet I'll also learn that you don't need snow shoes in the sand.

If the guy became quiet as a sheep and forgotten everything he spent years to learn..... exactly what great wisdom was he filled with?

And how does falling to the guy's feet prove that he learned what could not be taught?

Maybe he fell to his feet because he was begging and pleading not to be sent out on some other stupid journey.

And now that he forgot everything he has been taught for so many years.... isn't that just a big waste of time going to get educated in the first place?
 
Praxius
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

Praxius,
You are the only person who can answer this very question Praxius .

In my life, there is no such thing as nothingness.... there is always something, somewhere, someway, somehow.

I have had different approaches in understanding the world and universe around me which have not ventured into the forms of meditation. Everytime I try to meditate, I fall asleep.

Therefore my approaches have followed along the lines of a spiritual journey, where I have expanded my mind beyond my body and further outwards then I have ever fathomed possible. There is always constant activity and if there isn't much activity within my own body and mind, there is an equal balance of it elsewhere in the universe in which I am focused on.

In these processes, I have learned to better control my body and my mind. I have learned how to better understand the universe around me and those who also occupy it much like myself. I have learned that there is even more to our mind's potiential then what most may believe.

I am sure meditation works for many around the world, but it does not work for me. I have never had an opportunity where my mind actually clears itself from all thought.

On the contrary, I have expanded the abilities of my mind to seek outward from myself on three occasions so far in my life, where I have brought myself and those around me to a level of telepathy...... first time by accident, the other two on purpose with success. (Although having a pretty bad migrane the day after each experience)

And it's so simple to do, it boggles the mind at times..... all that is really required is full attention from you and another person (or more) and a dialogue which brings both your levels of understanding to the exact same point, and then everything flows from there. Of course I imagine others are reading this and thinking I've fell off my rocker. (I could say the same to those who believe in meditation.... they may not have experienced my experience, and thus, I have not experienced their experience. We each know our own.)

It is good to clear the mind as best as one can..... to get away from the regular routine of your life to seek out other things this world has to offer..... but I simply do not get the meditation factor of things. Maybe because I already found my method?

Then again, maybe I am not supposed to..... maybe I'm supposed to continue to understand what I have already begun to while other's focus on other things I can not.

Each life is different afterall..... we each have our own talents, interests and abilities.

Some wish to focus on things that ease their minds, that cause relaxation and some higher level of understanding...... others like myself may find ourselves seeking another level of understanding through keeping our bodies and minds as active beyond what most currently understand.

In the end, perhaps we'll all come to the same point...... but it is not the destination that is the real key.... it's the journey in which we all take individually.

For mine however, I'd like to remember and not be void of all thought through the process. How are others going to learn and be able to pass it down from generation to generation if you forget or voided your mind of all thought during the process?
 
Praxius
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

A meditation is a listening process of self-knowing in which there is no outer or inner compulsion, no fear, no judgment, no conflict, and as an awareness in the movement of action of everything that we do, so that each one may be a light unto himself .

I am alone. I sit completely still. I am quiet. I watch my thoughts and all the feelings that go with them. As I watch, my mind slows down.

I find serenity. I search for what is behind my thoughts and feelings, and what is behind that, and even behind that. There is peace.

I listen. I hear music. The notes are of a high pitch. Listening to this music gives me the feeling of watching the stars on a clear night. I call it ‘universal music’. There is a flow of energy. I relax into it.

My mind calls me and I go back into thought. I get lost in thought. I wake up to this and ask myself, “Is this what I want to do now?”

Again I watch my mind and its wanderings, and the whole process of awareness and listening is repeated. I see light. Some of this light is daylight coming through my eyelids, but I know from experience that some of it is there in total darkness. I call it ‘universal light’.

Again there is thought. I visualise the sun radiating golden and white light. I am bathed in this light. I visualise the valley and each member of the community in this light.

There is thought again as I think of the problems we have together.
Insight into some of our difficulties comes to me. I start being creative, but the cultivation of my creativity must wait. It is difficult to wait, as I have to wait until others are ready. I wait.


I look and see beauty, two beautiful, transcendent eyes. I look into those eyes. The flow of energy increases. I am lost in adoration. I sense a presence. It is very real. It is alive and close to me, very close. We are one.


I am back again in thought, but the feeling of love remains. I am glowing with good vibrations. Creativity calls. I must return to the world of activity. May the blessing I feel stay with me, and may I be able to share it with others.

Fair enough..... but how do you classify someone who experiences this just about all the time, everyday of their lives without meditation being required?

I think that is where my problem lies with meditation..... as much of the above in which you described sounds pretty much like what I experience everyday without having to step into a different frame of mind.

Sure I'll have my pissy days, everybody does, but overall with my life and the way everything is surrounding me, I have been at peace since my first spiritual journey I have taken about 4-5 years ago. I have been brought back closer to the perspective I used to have as a child.

As a child, I could see life in everything. I could see reactions in trees, rocks shifting and moving between one another, I could see what people were thinking by reading the lines on their faces and the eyes they keep hidden, the unknown pressence within the forests surrounding my home as a child, the pressence within the basement of my house...... the pressence that was there when my house burned down around me...... and the lack of pressence afterwards..... The bat that somehow got into our house and began living in my closet, the Visions of what is to come, what has come and so on. I would have dreams one night, which followed right along with what occured the following day.... etc.

Much of this was lost and forgotten, much like it is for probably everybody else when their parents tell them to abandon their imagination and start to grow up. Only until my spiritual journey I accidentally (yet on purpose at the same time) brought myself apon, did I start to re-tap into many of these parts of the mind that we've all been told to ignore as simple childish fantasy / imagination. Since then, I have begun to try my best in merging many of those processes back into my life. It all might have been childish fantasy as a kid, simply because you were a kid and didn't understand much of the world around you. As an adult, tapping into one's imagination can help expand the mind beyond what most understand today...... Imagination can be used for foolishness like what it seemed we used it for as a child, but as an adult, if used properly, you can see much more of the universe then you may have ever thought possible.

At present, because of this re-tapping, I have a much better understanding of my purpose on this planet, the reason why we are all here, the reason why we all die, and the explinations as to why we are born in the first place (Not to mention what's after the currently known)

Meditation maybe a great thing for many in the world and perhaps would be something very useful some of our politicians should invest some time into..... but as for me, and at present, I can not become more in peace with my life then I currently am.

So once again..... how do you classify someone who experiences much of the above that you described without meditating?

What if I can feel the atoms within the wind that blows between my fingers? What if I can see the life and physical movement of the bark on a random tree? What if I see the personality in the face of a caterpillar? What if I have never been attacked by any animal for well over 20 years and most tend to leech onto me more then they do with their own owners?

How do I classify someone like that?

Normal.

I personally feel that everything I have described above, every single one of us can make happen with what we're already given when we were born.

Perhaps my approach of seeking connection back with imagination, is the same approach you are referring to with meditation in regards to "Forgetting everything you have been taught" ~ Much of what we are taught is usually something to replace the gaps left by our imagination we've been taught to abandon in the first place.

But that doesn't mean we should abandon all of what we have been taught, as it is all important...... rather, one should attempt to merge it all back together in a manner which best suits ourselves, not those around us.

I'll leave it at that for now.
Last edited by Praxius; Jan 5th, 2009 at 02:43 PM..
 

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