Not being anything is the beginning of freedom.

[china]

Not being anything is the beginning of freedom. So if you are capable of feeling, of going into yourself ,you will find, as you become aware, that you are not free, that you are bound to very many different things, and that at the same time the mind hopes to be free. And you can see that the two are contradictory. So the mind has to investigate why it clings to anything. All this implies hard work. It is much more arduous than going to an office, than any physical labor, than all the sciences put together. Because the humble, intelligent mind is concerned with itself without being self centered; therefore it has to be extraordinarily alert, aware, and that means real hard work every day, every hour, every minute.
This demands insistent work because freedom does not come easily. Everything impedes - your wife, your husband, your son, your neighbor, your Gods, your religions, your tradition. All these impede you, but you have created them because you want security. And the mind that is seeking security can never find it. If you have observed a little in the world, you know there is no such thing as security. The wife dies, the husband dies, the son runs away - something happens. Life is not static, though we would like to make it so. No relationship is static because all life is movement. That is a thing to be grasped, the truth to be seen, felt, not something to be argued about on the pages in the forum(s).
So you will see, as you begin to investigate, that it is really a process of meditation.Don't be mesmerized by that word. To be aware of every thought, to know from what source it springs and what is its intention - that is meditation. And to know the whole content of one thought reveals the whole process of the mind.
Obviously I am not an authority on the above subject .

 

[Cliffy]

china,

That is the very essence of Zen. Allen Watts wrote a book back in the fifties called the Wisdom of Insecurity - one of my favourites. What most people don't understand is that freedom is a state of mind that is achievable by choice. We are born free - all of us. We become imprisoned by the belief systems we are born into. How much we buy into them determines how imprisoned we become.

But like happiness, freedom is as simple as deciding to reject anything that chains us to the past. First we have to identify those things that bind us but it can be an ongoing process. Either we find out what they are and then sever the tie all at once or we do it incrementally. Both require a period of time but both are achievable. It all depends on how serious we are in re-establishing our freedom.

I think the first step is to suspend belief in all our sacred cows (no matter which society we are born into) - religious, political, social and economic institutions. Money, for example, is a form of slavery, but is more a slavery of the mind than a physical restraint. It is the idea that money has importance that is enslaving. If we view it as just a form of energy and exchange that is useful but not necessary to our livelihood, then it loses its stigma.

You can grow your own food, make your own shelter, clothing and heat by the sweat of your brow and need very little money to do it. Wherever you live there is plenty of wild foods to harvest for free. I have lived in shelters, right here in Canada, that only cost me a few hundred dollars to built. They were warm, dry and comfortable. Anyone can live quite comfortably on one tenth or less than what most people think they need. It is that need that enslaves them to the mindless consumer culture that we live in.

 

[L Gilbert]

Waiting for China to become "not anything". lmao Good luck in your quest, China.

 

[china]

Cliffy ,

That is the very essence of Zen. Allen Watts wrote a book back in the fifties called the Wisdom of Insecurity - one of my favourites. What most people don't understand is that freedom is a state of mind that is achievable by choice. We are born free - all of us. We become imprisoned by the belief systems we are born into. How much we buy into them determines how imprisoned we become.

But like happiness, freedom is as simple as deciding to reject anything that chains us to the past. First we have to identify those things that bind us but it can be an ongoing process. Either we find out what they are and then sever the tie all at once or we do it incrementally. Both require a period of time but both are achievable. It all depends on how serious we are in re-establishing our freedom.

I think the first step is to suspend belief in all our sacred cows (no matter which society we are born into) - religious, political, social and economic institutions. Money, for example, is a form of slavery, but is more a slavery of the mind than a physical restraint. It is the idea that money has importance that is enslaving. If we view it as just a form of energy and exchange that is useful but not necessary to our livelihood, then it loses its stigma.

You can grow your own food, make your own shelter, clothing and heat by the sweat of your brow and need very little money to do it. Wherever you live there is plenty of wild foods to harvest for free. I have lived in shelters, right here in Canada, that only cost me a few hundred dollars to built. They were warm, dry and comfortable. Anyone can live quite comfortably on one tenth or less than what most people think they need. It is that need that enslaves them to the mindless consumer culture that we live in

Thanks Cliffy for a wonderful post .

 

[china]

L Gilbert

Waiting for China to become "not anything".
lmao Good luck in your quest, China

Perhaps when I will come back To Canada (some day) I'll get in touch with you and we can go somewhere in the wilderness and talk face to face ;or perhaps not talk at all ; let the nature speak .

 

[JLM]

YOu guys are "too deep" for me. Hey, let's celebrate what we HAVE and enjoy Xmas, all the best to you and yours Cliff. Snowing here again, so looks like the shovel will be in use over Xmas. Cheers.

 

[Praxius]

Not being anything is the beginning of freedom. So if you are capable of feeling, of going into yourself ,you will find, as you become aware, that you are not free, that you are bound to very many different things, and that at the same time the mind hopes to be free. And you can see that the two are contradictory.

If all of that is truly the case, and you don't feel you are actually free in any form of the sense because of them, then why not just kill yourself and get it over with?

Or just take a cinder block to your skull and turn yourself into a veggie..... then you'll be about as free as one can be next to being dead.

If these two things are contradictory, then maybe something is wrong in your calculations.

So the mind has to investigate why it clings to anything. All this implies hard work. It is much more arduous than going to an office, than any physical labor, than all the sciences put together. Because the humble, intelligent mind is concerned with itself without being self centered; therefore it has to be extraordinarily alert, aware, and that means real hard work every day, every hour, every minute.

If what I am currently experiencing in my life is real hard work, every day every hour, every minute, by simply thinking, then I must be next to death for being constantly thinking all the time in my life in regards to what I am aware of, my surroundings, myself and those around me and these forums for example.

Funny, I just woke up, just had a shower, and sitting here reading and responding..... yet it sure doesn't seem like hard work or that i'm putting any form of strain my my body or mind.

Maybe you just need to think more to exercise your brain.... then it might not seem like such hard work.

This demands insistent work because freedom does not come easily. Everything impedes - your wife, your husband, your son, your neighbor, your Gods, your religions, your tradition. All these impede you, but you have created them because you want security. And the mind that is seeking security can never find it.

Once again I have to disagree with what you are saying. If you think the only true freedom in life can come only when you abandon your family, friends, the things you believe in (For whatever reason) then who the hell wants to be free in the first place?

It's not called freedom, it's called loneliness.... it's called isolation, anti-social, selfish, a hermit..... which eventually leads to suicide for most people.

If that's the freedom you're seeking, you can keep it. Some people enjoy a little bit of hard work once in a while in their lives.

If you have observed a little in the world, you know there is no such thing as security. The wife dies, the husband dies, the son runs away - something happens. Life is not static, though we would like to make it so.

I know all of this, but I have no intention or desire to make it stay static.... wtf would be the point in living if everything stayed the same?

No relationship is static because all life is movement. That is a thing to be grasped, the truth to be seen, felt, not something to be argued about on the pages in the forum(s).

Then why did you bring it up in the forums in the first place? Just to sound smart and then point out that anybody else who has a question about the things you say shouldn't be debating it?

Nice was to make yourself sound right.

So you will see, as you begin to investigate, that it is really a process of meditation.Don't be mesmerized by that word. To be aware of every thought, to know from what source it springs and what is its intention - that is meditation. And to know the whole content of one thought reveals the whole process of the mind.

Or take two hits of acid and call me in the morning.... the end result is still the same.

Obviously I am not an authority on the above subject .

Nobody is, that's the key.

 

[Praxius]

Oh and as for myself. I'm about as free as I wish to be in my life.

It's not true freedom, it's called balance. A balance of my life that allows me to have enough freedom to enjoy my life, while at the same time be capable of being productive with my life for myself and those around me.

Is it for security?

Nope.... it's simply because I choose to. Sometimes attempting to look too far into the reasons why you do what you do is the problem that you are trying to avoid in the first place..... AKA: Thinking too much.

What does it matter why you do what you do? Are you enjoying your life or not? If you are, then who cares? What do you care? If you don't...... then maybe it's time to reflect and see what you really want in your life.

But China, you tend to use this term "Freedom" way too often for something that time and time again, appears to head towards a form of anti-social and selfish behavior against all of those who have probably helped you get to where you are today.

You can think your friends, family, work, religion and all that stuff is just a hindering bother and causes more stress on your life and your mind, but where would you be without their help, their opportunities?

Humans do better when they work and think together. Sometimes we can not do everything on our own..... and if you do, chances are, your life will be a lot shorter.

 

[china]

Wow Praxius ,You sure are an angry man

 

[Praxius]

Wow Praxius ,You sure are an angry man

Now there's an inacurate statement based on lack of observational evidence.

Not one thing I have written above has been done with any anger in mind. I'm just being my straight-forward self explaining things as I understand it, while asking questions along the way to perhaps learn a bit more.

Maybe it's my Grumpy Bear avatar throwing you off..... which was all part of the plan somewhere down the road.

But once again, you have avoided my questions and comments in regards to the topic you created..... but then again, you yourself said above:

"..... That is a thing to be grasped, the truth to be seen, felt, not something to be argued about on the pages in the forum(s)."

So I guess that clears you from having to explain anything beyond what you already explained..... hence, you didn't create a debate, you created a dictation for all of us to simply accept without question.

Ain't gonna work. ;-)

By all means, feel free to answer or question my own comments as you see fit in order to create a debate.... I at least did the same for you.

I mean, if you got nothing for defending your own views in which you publically made available for all to read and debate, then I guess I'm right and you're wrong.

 

[talloola]

china,

That is the very essence of Zen. Allen Watts wrote a book back in the fifties called the Wisdom of Insecurity - one of my favourites. What most people don't understand is that freedom is a state of mind that is achievable by choice. We are born free - all of us. We become imprisoned by the belief systems we are born into. How much we buy into them determines how imprisoned we become.

But like happiness, freedom is as simple as deciding to reject anything that chains us to the past. First we have to identify those things that bind us but it can be an ongoing process. Either we find out what they are and then sever the tie all at once or we do it incrementally. Both require a period of time but both are achievable. It all depends on how serious we are in re-establishing our freedom.

I think the first step is to suspend belief in all our sacred cows (no matter which society we are born into) - religious, political, social and economic institutions. Money, for example, is a form of slavery, but is more a slavery of the mind than a physical restraint. It is the idea that money has importance that is enslaving. If we view it as just a form of energy and exchange that is useful but not necessary to our livelihood, then it loses its stigma.

You can grow your own food, make your own shelter, clothing and heat by the sweat of your brow and need very little money to do it. Wherever you live there is plenty of wild foods to harvest for free. I have lived in shelters, right here in Canada, that only cost me a few hundred dollars to built. They were warm, dry and comfortable. Anyone can live quite comfortably on one tenth or less than what most people think they need. It is that need that enslaves them to the mindless consumer culture that we live in.

I agree totally with your views and I live my life in a similar fashion, but did
not learn than state of freedom at an early age, it took a while.
Although I don't live in a shelter, I do live in a simple house, nothing fancy.
Simplicity in life is perfect for me, and not grasping onto conventional and
commercial concepts as well.
I don't have to meditate to know these things, and I didn't to learn this way
of life from meditation, 'live & learn' its called.
I suppose meditation would give my brain a rest, but I can achieve that while
sleeping.
Trial and error. Observation of myself and others over time.
Learning 'peacefulness while growing, without any obedience to others, only
to myself.
The learned lesson is 'awareness' in it's purest form.

 

[Said1]

You walk a lot, though. Personally, I find the time I spend walking to be just as calming and enlightening as meditating. I try to mediate, but I often fall asleep, so the way I still my mind or focus on a problem or explore different things is when i'm walking. I can walk and chew gum too.

 

[china]

Praxius

I mean, if you got nothing for defending your own views in which you publically made available for all to read and debate, then I guess I'm right and you're wrong.

Yes Praxius ,you are right ; that's your point of view and I still feel you are an angry man .

 

[talloola]

You walk a lot, though. Personally, I find the time I spend walking to be just as calming and enlightening as meditating. I try to mediate, but I often fall asleep, so the way I still my mind or focus on a problem or explore different things is when i'm walking. I can walk and chew gum too.

Yes, walking is a great avenue to quiet and peace, especially mixed with nature,
and the ocean.

Me too, but I can't golf and chew gum, (seriously):-|

 

[Praxius]

Praxius

Yes Praxius ,you are right ; that's your point of view and I still feel you are an angry man .

an⋅gry
1.feeling or showing anger or strong resentment (usually fol. by at, with, or about): to be angry at the dean; to be angry about the snub.
2.expressing, caused by, or characterized by anger; wrathful: angry words.
3.Chiefly New England and Midland U.S. inflamed, as a sore; exhibiting inflammation.
4.(of an object or phenomenon) exhibiting a characteristic or creating a mood associated with anger or danger, as by color, sound, force, etc.: an angry sea; the boom of angry guns.

. Nope..... none of that falls along the lines of anything I have been responding with. Perhaps Confrontational is the word you're seeking?



con·fron·ta·tion

1. The act of confronting or the state of being confronted, especially a meeting face to face.
2. A conflict involving armed forces: a nuclear confrontation.
3. Discord or a clash of opinions and ideas: an age of ideological confrontation.
4. A focused comparison: an essay that brought elements of biography, autobiography, and general European history into powerful, meaningful confrontation.

 

[china]

an⋅gry
1.feeling or showing anger or strong resentment (usually fol. by at, with, or about): to be angry at the dean; to be angry about the snub.
2.expressing, caused by, or characterized by anger; wrathful: angry words.
3.Chiefly New England and Midland U.S. inflamed, as a sore; exhibiting inflammation.
4.(of an object or phenomenon) exhibiting a characteristic or creating a mood associated with anger or danger, as by color, sound, force, etc.: an angry sea; the boom of angry guns.

. Nope..... none of that falls along the lines of anything I have been responding with. Perhaps Confrontational is the word you're seeking?

Nope ,I'm not seeking any words Praxius ;just saying the way it is .

 

[Praxius]

Nope ,I'm not seeking any words Praxius ;just saying the way it is .

Well the way you think it is, is wrong.

I know myself a lot better then you know me, and I know when I am angry or not.... you can only speculate based on the words I provide and your interpretation of how they all go together.

Somehow your interpretation has made you conclude that I am somehow angry or was angry at some point in this thread..... if I was angry, it would be very apparent to anybody in here, I would probably even claim I am angry and I would have a lot more attitude expressed then I currently do.

That is the way it is.

 

[Curiosity]

Hi China - I saw this thread two days ago and didn't realize I had cleared myself out of the forum when I was tidying my old files.... then I was miraculously restored and I am happy because I hope you can find the book
Cliffy mentioned by Watts - it is a wonderful piece and one of those books you carry through life with you - there is always something to read and reflect upon even if you only have a moment or two.

Watts used to give seminars at Esalen in N. California and on a trip there I felt the serenity he speaks of....it is a magical place....I wonder what he would think of our world now - it was different when he was intuiting life.

The topic is refreshing to read and it is nice to see you sharing your words again.

Curiosity

 

[china]

Curiosity ,
Hello Curiosity my friend , It is also refreshing to have you "pop-up" in this forum ;even if only once in a while .
Miss you , China in China

 

[Curiosity]

Thanks China It was nice seeing you again....

Here is a link page to some of Watts' meanderings...I hope the actual link code will show when the video comes up for you.... I didn't realize the YouTube picture would be the final result. When I type in the link it doesn't show.

YouTube - Alan Watts: A Conversation with Myself - Part 1

I can't listen to too much of him, I get slow and sleepy and it's not the best thing when I am trying to get ready for work!

Curio