Perpetual Motion...
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I think the idea of perpetual motion is that the machine will create energy from nothing thereby "creating" endless energy. The universe is closed where energy is neither created nor destroyed but just converted into different forms (matter being one). So perpetual motion isn't possible.
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The trouble is that we know the Universe is expanding, but there's no way to know what it's expanding INTO, or even if it is actually expanding into ANYTHING so the whole question kind of melts around there. Obviously it's a bit hard to describe the expansion of the universe as motion in normal terms. Motion involves movement from place to place, but there's no place for the Universe to expand into.
I think the question is too difficult for science at its current level of development to answer.
I think the question is too difficult for science at its current level of development to answer.
You are right, Scratch, but that does not mean it is in perpetual motion. By universe expanding, we mean that the space is expanding, taking stars and galaxies along with it.
A two dimensional analogy would be a spherical balloon with spots on it. As the balloon expands, the spots on it move away from each other. According to the current theory of cosmology, universe will continue expanding indefinitely. Imagine the universe as a five dimensional balloon, with three dimensional spots (stars and galaxies) on it.
Eventually all the stars and galaxies will die out (after the nuclear fuel is exhausted), but still the expansion will continue. After a very long time, the elementary particles will start to decay. Protons have a half life of 10^35 years.
So at the end of the universe, all the particles will have decayed into energy, we will have an empty universe (consisting only of energy), which would still be expanding, because the space will continue to expand.
However, this has nothing to do with perpetual motion. It is not the objects that are moving indefinitely, but the space.
Motion is motion (already moving) that would stay in motion if all things remained the same. Putting the brakes on will change the motion of a car.
Perpetual motion needs energy to start moving, with the universe it was the big bang. Attraction and repulsion would have been the change at a big bang. A wheel needs weights in a certain place before movement starts, it takes energy to do that so the wheel is sort of being wound up a bit, once in motion the idea is to siphon some small portion of that off without causing a shut-down. Nobody is expecting to have a car roll uphill from a dead stop at the bottom of the hill. Giving the car a push at the top of the previous hill is allowed if that weight stays with the car, with perpetual motion all hills are the same height and one push is all that is ever needed. To be useful, instead of just being pretty, turning a genset would only slow down the motion rather than halting it.
To throw a monkey-wrench into this, isn't the universe expanding at an increasing rate?
The light we can see today will fade from sight due to an increase in distance. Say there is a cluster of galaxies that remain attached through a gravitational attraction that results in a stable orbit, Stars still die in those clusters and because of the close proximity there is a possibility that material is collected by other existing stars or forms with the remains of other stars to start a brand new star. Before that system comes to an end you are going to pass through a very large amount of time, what we have been through could be a tiny fraction of what lies ahead.
Does anybody know how fast we are actually going?
I remember reading a very interesting story about perpetual motion a few years back. Two countries were having a friendly argument, as to which one has the better scientists. One country says to the other, send us two of your best brains, best physical scientists and we will see what they can do.
When the two scientists arrive in the other country, they are taken to a laboratory and shown a machine. The scientists are stunned; they were looking at a perpetual motion machine.
“Well, guys, you have six months to duplicate it, let us see how good you are.”
After five months of hard work, they indeed were able to duplicate it. As they showed it to the government officials, one scientist asked,
“Say, what is that black box over there? We couldn’t’ duplicate that, we used a set of conductors and resistors instead.”
The government burocrat replied “that black box was the power source. Another three weeks and the jig would have been up. We didn’t invent perpetual motion machine, we only faked it. You invented it. Congratulations.”
“Well, thanks a lot, guys; you may now return to your country. We keep the machine, of course.”
When the two scientists arrive in the other country, they are taken to a laboratory and shown a machine. The scientists are stunned; they were looking at a perpetual motion machine.
“Well, guys, you have six months to duplicate it, let us see how good you are.”
After five months of hard work, they indeed were able to duplicate it. As they showed it to the government officials, one scientist asked,
“Say, what is that black box over there? We couldn’t’ duplicate that, we used a set of conductors and resistors instead.”
The government burocrat replied “that black box was the power source. Another three weeks and the jig would have been up. We didn’t invent perpetual motion machine, we only faked it. You invented it. Congratulations.”
“Well, thanks a lot, guys; you may now return to your country. We keep the machine, of course.”
I think perpetual motion is the constant conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy while kinetic energy is converted back into potential energy and no energy is lost from the system. Empirical observation is that energy is inevitably lost from the system.
not just empirical observation, but part of the second law of thermodynamics. It's been proven by better minds than yours or mine that it is impossible to convert energies from potential to kinetic and back again with 100% efficiency. the same applies to heat engines
I read the title to this Thread and assumed it was going to be about
the water in Mexico. I guess I was wrong to ass/u/me. Mexican water
just gives the illusion of perpetual motion, but that passes with time and
drugs...8O :lol::lol::lol:
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the water in Mexico. I guess I was wrong to ass/u/me. Mexican water
just gives the illusion of perpetual motion, but that passes with time and
drugs...8O :lol::lol::lol:
________________