where is Love

china

china

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In the space which thought creates around itself there is no love. This space divides man from man, and in it is all the becoming, the battle of life, the agony and fear. Meditation is the ending of this space, the ending of the me. Then relationship has quite a different meaning, for in that space which is not made by thought, the other does not exist, for you do not exist. Meditation then is not the pursuit of some vision, however sanctified by tradition. Rather it is the endless space where thought cannot enter. To us, the little space made by thought around itself, which is the me, is extremely important, for this is all the mind knows, identifying itself with everything that is in that space. And the fear of not being is born in that space. But in meditation, when this is understood, the mind can enter into a dimension of space where action is inaction. We do not know what love is, for in the space made by thought around itself as the me, love is the conflict of the me and the not-me. This conflict, this torture, is not love. Thought is the very denial of love, and it cannot enter into that space where the me is not. In that space is the benediction which man seeks and cannot find. He seeks it within the frontiers of thought, and thought destroys the ecstasy of this benediction.
 
Praxius

Praxius

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china said:
In the space which thought creates around itself there is no love. This space divides man from man, and in it is all the becoming, the battle of life, the agony and fear.
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You're talking about thoughts and emotions, claiming there can not be the emotion of love, but there can be the emotion of fear and agony? That doesn't make much sense unless your a pessimist. Throughts are what creates emotions, it's an after effect if you will.

Agony and Fear are emotions to certain situations or events.... you can not claim they exist while the emotions of love and pleasure do not.

Meditation is the ending of this space, the ending of the me.
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Meditation is to look from within yourself and reflect, that is not the end of you, that's the begining of true understanding of one's self, if anything. It is another form/method of thought, just at a different focal point.

Then relationship has quite a different meaning, for in that space which is not made by thought, the other does not exist, for you do not exist.
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Sorry but that makes no sense.... once again, emotions and feelings are how we organize, validate and prioritize our thoughts.... they are both one in the same for humans. Logic is also involved in emotions, believe it or not. What we determine is logical is based on our reasoning / what makes sense to us / what is in the best interests of whom or what within the situation..... regardless of how little emotion is expressed in the logical thought process, there is still the existence of emotion.

Meditation then is not the pursuit of some vision, however sanctified by tradition. Rather it is the endless space where thought cannot enter.
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Do you even know what meditation actually is? If thought can not enter this area when you are meditating, then what the hell goes through your mind when you are meditating? Just black empty space? Do you become a vegetable?

Me thinks not.

To us, the little space made by thought around itself, which is the me, is extremely important, for this is all the mind knows, identifying itself with everything that is in that space. And the fear of not being is born in that space. But in meditation, when this is understood, the mind can enter into a dimension of space where action is inaction.
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Apparently that depends on your interpretation of the physical body during this process, where you can not see what the mind is actively doing during this time. You are attempting to limit what abilities the human mind can and can not do without actually truly knowing those limitations.... you are going by your own experiences from what I can gather and they conflict with my own and others in which I have had this discussion with.

We do not know what love is, for in the space made by thought around itself as the me, love is the conflict of the me and the not-me. This conflict, this torture, is not love. Thought is the very denial of love, and it cannot enter into that space where the me is not. In that space is the benediction which man seeks and cannot find. He seeks it within the frontiers of thought, and thought destroys the ecstasy of this benediction.
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Maybe you do not know what love is, and perhaps you seem to think everything in the universe, or at least the earth, revolves around the "You" but that in itself is where your understanding fails in this aspect of what love is.

Love is sacrafice.... sacrafice in which you are willing to make in order to fullfill something or someone in your life in which you have determined is a necessity for your survival or purpose in this time/existence/life. It is a personal logical conclusion in which your thoughts have come to in a paticular situation. It is no more or less important then the agony and fear in which you spoke of above.... it is a balance of understanding the world that surrounds you.... it is something that connects you to others, that allows you to open parts of your mind and body to others in which most would normally never see or experience..... it is sacrafice of your own security for a greater good.... a gamble if you will. Many times in life we will lose this gamble, and yet we will continue to try and seek it out again and again.

Meditation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

"Meditation is a discipline in which the mind is focused on an object of thought or awareness. It usually involves turning attention to a single point of reference. The practice may engender a higher state of consciousness. Meditation is recognized as a component of almost all religions, and has been practiced for over 5,000 years.

Meditative disciplines encompass a wide range of spiritual and/or psychophysical practices which can emphasize development of either a high degree of mental concentration, or the apparent converse, mental quiescence."

...... Which is the total opposite of what you claimed it was, which brings me to the conclusion that you never experienced nor attempted this practice.... either that or you attempted it and failed. Perhaps "Fear" made you come to the conclusion in thought that it doesn't work and we can not enter this area..... if we can not enter this area of thought, then why do millions of people around the world still do it?

It would seem to me that you are continually bringing out threads that relate to thoughts, emotions, religion, faith and of course the nation of China.... perhaps attempting to counter or disprove something you either do not like or do not believe in. There are multiple methods and processes in which one person can take/use/do to come to a much closer understanding of these things which goes far beyond seeking the answers from another human..... and one of those ways is Meditation to seek those answers from within yourself..... other ways include drugs or both which is also quite effective and responsive to thought, however they are also illegal in most countries (I wonder why)

So basically just so I am undestanding what you are trying to explain..... love, emotions and meditation are all just illusions?
 
china

china

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It would seem to me that you are continually bringing out threads that relate....... and of course the nation of China......
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.

So what???
Do you even know what meditation actually is? If thought can not enter this area when you are meditating, then what the hell goes through your mind when you are meditating? Just black empty space? Do you become a vegetable?
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I don't know ....I don't know...

It would seem to me that you are continually bringing out threads that relate to thoughts, emotions, religion, faith and of course the nation of China.... perhaps attempting to counter or disprove something you either do not like or do not believe in. There are multiple methods and processes in which one person can take/use/do to come to a much closer understanding of these things which goes far beyond seeking the answers from another human..... and one of those ways is Meditation to seek those answers from within yourself..... other ways include drugs or both which is also quite effective and responsive to thought, however they are also illegal in most countries (I wonder why)
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So basically just so I am undestanding what you are trying to explain..... love, emotions and meditation are all just illusions?[/QUOTE

This is a post I have placed some time ago >I hope it answers your questions and / or explains your "accusations ".



That morning the sea was like a lake or an enormous river without a ripple, and so calm that you could see the reflections of the stars so early in the morning. The dawn had not yet come, and so the stars, and the reflection of the cliff, and the distant lights of the town, were there on the water. And as the sun came up over the horizon in a cloudless sky it made a golden path, and it was extraordinary to see that light of China filling the earth and every leaf and blade of grass. As you watched, a great stillness came into you. The brain itself became very quiet, without any reaction, without a movement, and it was strange to feel this immense stillness. "Feel" isn't the word. The quality of that silence, that stillness, is not felt by the brain; it is beyond the brain. The brain can conceive, formulate or make a design for the future, but this stillness is beyond its range, beyond all imagination, beyond all desire. You are so still that your body becomes completely part of the earth, part of everything that is still.
And as the slight breeze came from the hills, stirring the leaves, this stillness, this extraordinary quality of silence, was not disturbed. The house was between the hills and the sea, over- looking the sea. And as you watched the sea, so very still you really became part of everything. You were everything. You were the light, and the beauty of love. Again, to say "you were a part of everything" is also wrong: the word "you" is not adequate because you really weren't there. You didn't exist. There was only that stillness, the beauty, the extraordinary sense of love. The words you and I separate things. This division in this strange silence and stillness doesn't exist. And as you watched out of the window, space and time seemed to have come to an end, and the space that divides had no reality. That leaf and that eucalyptus and the blue shining water were not different from you.
Meditation is really very simple. We complicate it. We weave a web of ideas round it what it is and what it is not. But it is none of these things. Because it is so very simple it escapes us, because our minds are so complicated, so time-worn and time-based. And this mind dictates the activity of the heart, and then the trouble begins. But meditation comes naturally, with extraordinary ease, when you walk on the sand or look out of your window or see those marvellous hills burnt by last summer's sun. Why are we such tortured human beings, with tears in our eyes and false laughter on our lips? If you could walk alone among those hills or in the woods or along the long, white, bleached sands, in that solitude you would know what meditation is. The ecstasy of solitude comes when you are not frightened to be alone no longer belonging to the world or attached to anything. Then, like that dawn that came up this morning, it comes silently, and makes a golden path in the very stillness, which was at the beginning, which is now, and which will be always there.
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china

china

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DurkaDurka or DurakDurak in most of Slavic languages refers to some one extremely stupid.
So whenever I see your post all I can see is a curly hair and ,......idiot idiot speaking .hahahahah
 
Praxius

Praxius

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china said:
.So what???
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So what? You posted the thread, what's your point you're trying to make?

I don't know ....I don't know...
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Then why did you decide to dictate to us what you know/understand, if you don't know/understand?

This is a post I have placed some time ago >I hope it answers your questions and / or explains your "accusations ".
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I haven't begun to accuse you of anything, I am trying to understand what you're trying to tell us. Once I figure that out, then I'll begin the accusations. I made note of the type of threads you have been starting recently which focus more on emotions and how the human mind works.... I am trying to understand where you are coming from so I can understand where you are going.

That morning the sea was like a lake or an enormous river without a ripple, and so calm that you could see the reflections of the stars so early in the morning. The dawn had not yet come, and so the stars, and the reflection of the cliff, and the distant lights of the town, were there on the water. And as the sun came up over the horizon in a cloudless sky it made a golden path, and it was extraordinary to see that light of China filling the earth and every leaf and blade of grass. As you watched, a great stillness came into you. The brain itself became very quiet, without any reaction, without a movement, and it was strange to feel this immense stillness. "Feel" isn't the word. The quality of that silence, that stillness, is not felt by the brain; it is beyond the brain. The brain can conceive, formulate or make a design for the future, but this stillness is beyond its range, beyond all imagination, beyond all desire. You are so still that your body becomes completely part of the earth, part of everything that is still.

And as the slight breeze came from the hills, stirring the leaves, this stillness, this extraordinary quality of silence, was not disturbed. The house was between the hills and the sea, over- looking the sea. And as you watched the sea, so very still you really became part of everything. You were everything. You were the light, and the beauty of love.

Again, to say "you were a part of everything" is also wrong: the word "you" is not adequate because you really weren't there. You didn't exist. There was only that stillness, the beauty, the extraordinary sense of love. The words you and I separate things. This division in this strange silence and stillness doesn't exist. And as you watched out of the window, space and time seemed to have come to an end, and the space that divides had no reality. That leaf and that eucalyptus and the blue shining water were not different from you.

Meditation is really very simple. We complicate it. We weave a web of ideas round it what it is and what it is not. But it is none of these things. Because it is so very simple it escapes us, because our minds are so complicated, so time-worn and time-based. And this mind dictates the activity of the heart, and then the trouble begins. But meditation comes naturally, with extraordinary ease, when you walk on the sand or look out of your window or see those marvellous hills burnt by last summer's sun. Why are we such tortured human beings, with tears in our eyes and false laughter on our lips? If you could walk alone among those hills or in the woods or along the long, white, bleached sands, in that solitude you would know what meditation is. The ecstasy of solitude comes when you are not frightened to be alone no longer belonging to the world or attached to anything. Then, like that dawn that came up this morning, it comes silently, and makes a golden path in the very stillness, which was at the beginning, which is now, and which will be always there.
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Hmmm.... Is this your own experience and understanding of that experience?

From what I read and understand, you're close along the lines of what I have experienced a few times in my life.... but not quite.

"And as you watched the sea, so very still you really became part of everything. You were everything. You were the light, and the beauty of love.

Again, to say "you were a part of everything" is also wrong: the word "you" is not adequate because you really weren't there. You didn't exist."

Like the sound of a fallen tree and nobody around to hear it, you were there to see it, therefore not only did you exist in this time and place, but your existence and experience in this time and place allowed it to also exist.

It is true that "You were a part of everything" is wrong..... you are always a part of everything and everything is a part of you. Everything in existence, the universe in which we know.... is all made up of the same things... atoms

.... but what makes up an atom?

What makes up those parts in which makes up the atom?

What makes up those parts?

Eventually if you dig far enough and deep enough, you come right back to the start of where you began your search. You may think that you missed the answer somewhere, that you took the wrong path or overlooked one small path along the way, or perhaps it seemed like some crazy vision/halucenation..... but what you came to is the answer, but as you mentioned above, it's sometimes so simple, it boggles the mind.

Then again, you threw me into the middle of another conversation with no acutal explination as to where you are going with this or what your point is, as one seems to contradict the other.

Perhaps you are not simplifying it enough to what you're trying to get across..... those web of ideas you spoke of.

Also, the way you explained how you observed the surrounding area around you and claimed that was meditation and was easy to do, to me doesn't sound like meditation, but simple observation of what things truly are. Meditation to me is about looking within yourself for the answers you seek in life, not looking outward with our normal senses and seeing the things we take for granted everyday.

Then again I suspect I still am not following what you're trying to get across.
 
DurkaDurka

DurkaDurka

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china said:
DurkaDurka or DurakDurak in most of Slavic languages refers to some one extremely stupid.
So whenever I see your post all I can see is a curly hair and ,......idiot idiot speaking .hahahahah
Click to expand...

China, you silly, mouth breathing Polak, go warm me up a perogie.
 
china

china

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DurkaDurka or DurakDurak in most of Slavic languages refers to some one extremely stupid.
So whenever I see your post all I can see is a curly hair and ,......idiot idiot speaking .hahahahah

China, you silly, mouth breathing Polak, go warm me up a perogie.[/QUOTE

You see what I mean ? How can I email you pierogi ,wise up curly.
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DurkaDurka

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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Toronto
china said:
DurkaDurka or DurakDurak in most of Slavic languages refers to some one extremely stupid.
So whenever I see your post all I can see is a curly hair and ,......idiot idiot speaking .hahahahah

China, you silly, mouth breathing Polak, go warm me up a perogie.[/QUOTE

You see what I mean ? How can I email you pierogi ,wise up curly.
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You wise up, stanky old Polak. Don't you have some vulnerable chinese peasants to recruit into your cult?
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S

Sal

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If anyone is serving homemade perogies I AM THERE.

I haven't made them for years and if they aren't homemade, they really aren't worth the calories......
 
Dexter Sinister

Dexter Sinister

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china said:
In the space which thought creates around itself there is no love.
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The space my thoughts create is full of love. That space contains my wife, my children, my siblings, my parents (both dead now, alas), my friends, my tribe, my nation, my planet... Love is probably the single largest component of it. I have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm pretty sure you don't either. My experience and understanding of life is that your opening statement is entirely and egregiously false.
 
china

china

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The space my thoughts create is full of love. That space contains my wife, my children, my siblings, my parents (both dead now, alas), my friends, my tribe, my nation, my planet... Love is probably the single largest component of it. I have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm pretty sure you don't either. My experience and understanding of life is that your opening statement is entirely and egregiously false.
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Ok Dexter , here we go again.I know that you know alot ;so also alot of other people .So what I,m saying Dexter is....just because you dont understand someone elses writing / thread it doesn't mean that others don't (eg. one of you young [twins Ithink] sisters) or so on.
Personali Dexter ,knowledge is not that important to me .It's usaly a second hand knowledge ,acquired from someone elses experience and or search and discovery .Personaly Dexter , I'm learning, learning from moment (without accumulation) to moment where the learning is relevant to my life and that's how I live Dexter ,since I left High School .
The space my thoughts create is full of love.
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I have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm pretty sure you don't either.
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Just one question Dexter,Would you thought still create space ,full of love if you didn't have a wife ,parent's sibblings , friends, country, planet etc.What I,m saying would there be Love as an Entity not a feelings ,emotions-which are a part of thought itsself and are self directed ?
 
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