Men's great ilusion.

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
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Mankind is caught in a great illusion. It thinks it can solve its problems through legislation, through political and social reform, through scientific and technological progress, through greater knowledge, greater wealth, greater power and greater control. It may solve some problems with all this; but those are all trivial problems and temporary curse. They will have the effect of aspirin but they will not cure the disease. We shall go on creating new problems on the one hand and trying to solve them on the other, to maintain the illusion of "progress". And not much time is left now, for the disease is growing at a wild pace and is about to consume Man. If man does not transform inwardly, though a mutation in his psyche, he will soon join the list of those unfortunate creatures that lives a million years or so on this planet and then became extinct for they could not adapt themselves. I'm not realy certain that the evolution of man from the ape was really a step in the direction of survival or a retrograde step.Time will tell. Your thoughts .
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
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Regina, SK
I'm not realy certain that the evolution of man from the ape was really a step in the direction of survival or a retrograde step.
It was neither. Evolution has no direction or goal. Man did not evolve from apes, man and apes evolved from a common ancestor, now extinct, which is the natural result for all species. Over 90% of all the species that have ever lived are extinct, that's one of the things evolution does, and as Niflmir says, it'll happen to us too, eventually. That's just the way things work. What's at issue is whether we do it to ourselves prematurely through our own folly, or nature does it to us in the normal course of events (I'm not really sure those are two different things, we're not separate from nature), and given that the outcome is the same in any case, I can't see that it matters in the big picture. Most days I think the planet would be better off without us.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
I agree with all of you more or less say 95.7%. The illusion part is the key to our continued occupation of this place. Our evolution has become hybridized, a combination of our reason and our environment, now we see our own hand in the mix so to speak, far more clearly defined than it has ever been in the past. I can't help but think that the baggage of human experiance wieghs very heavily on us as we grapple with the extermination of all we know. There is required as China has explained nicely, a radical departure from the prevailing ways.
Already the extermination has begun, the eventual is I think close at hand.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
Mankind is caught in a great illusion. It thinks it can solve its problems through legislation, through political and social reform, through scientific and technological progress, through greater knowledge, greater wealth, greater power and greater control. It may solve some problems with all this; but those are all trivial problems and temporary curse. They will have the effect of aspirin but they will not cure the disease. We shall go on creating new problems on the one hand and trying to solve them on the other, to maintain the illusion of "progress". And not much time is left now, for the disease is growing at a wild pace and is about to consume Man. If man does not transform inwardly, though a mutation in his psyche, he will soon join the list of those unfortunate creatures that lives a million years or so on this planet and then became extinct for they could not adapt themselves. I'm not realy certain that the evolution of man from the ape was really a step in the direction of survival or a retrograde step.Time will tell. Your thoughts .

Good Post....

I believe modern Man, individually and in his constructs of organization in its many forms, are conflicted between Image and Duty.

Duty being described as simply doing what's Right.

I don't worry too much about the fate of mankind as there will always be a remnant.

And it will identified by those who are drawn together in the common cause of Right...

The trick is to discover who "they" are....

But that emerging remnant has resigned itself to the simple fact that it can't save everyone and will organize itself to rebuild whatever is left....

Its weapons are Goodwill guided by the understanding provided by God.

Don't abandon Faith, China....You're not alone in your concerns....
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
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China

Mutuality is common or ‘normal’ for many insect species and while some vertebrates exhibit similar behavior, “success” in terms of prolonging a species potential for extended longevity relies on a psychological concept. This construct is product of enlightened thinking as it emerges through an evolved awareness/comprehension of reality.

‘Reality’ is a function of mind.

This reality dictates several a priori truths as awareness informs intellect. It begins with the most basic truth of all. Every living species consumes. Will this species comprehending the finite nature of materials available for consumption in a closed system like that of this planet, evolve sufficiently to integrate this truth as component of awareness capable of influencing behavior?

Species unable to grasp the significance of living within a system of life that imposes insurmountable limits to continued reproduction and consumption will perish. Species extinction is simply an attribute of evolution. “Unsuccessful” organisms are selected for extinction because the balance within this closed system that renders “life” viable becomes disturbed. A change in climate that influences the reproductive and life cycles of a myriad of organisms is one factor among many that are beyond the control of even the most highly evolved species. There are of course many natural phenomena that are similarly impervious to human ideation.

A great deal of emphasis and an almost “spiritual” dynamic has been erected by humankind around the notion that individual ‘freedom” and individual expression and individual ‘prosperity’ are the entitlement of the few. Biodiversity informs living systems that relationships exist between each and every organism within this closed system. Humankind has referred to this relationship as “the food chain”, but it is far more than simply the facility imbued by nature upon any individual organism to rank above any another in these cycles of consumption.

As humankind destroys species through over-consumption and levels great areas of vegetation, more than simply the immediately obvious imbalance is imposed on the whole. As humankind generates artificial substances like plastics and nuclear waste, the immediate disjunction, whether recognized or not, can be denied and ignored. But it can only be denied and ignored for a very short time.

I’ve read these contributions from several folk who exhibit a dark pessimism regarding the future and in fact the future potential of humankind in both the near and the far. This pessimism may be well founded given that humankind has never exhibited a willingness to synthesize his existence with that of the rest of the life that thrives on this little life raft bouncing through the cosmos.

Perhaps when the emphasis on individuality that is currently arrayed by many as the “correct” interface with existence is acknowledged as the psychological cul-de-sac that it is, will there be a rallying to the acceptance of the idea that we are all intimately and irrevocably bound to the plethora of interrelationships that make life possible.

If not the human species will be (and may already be) selected for extinction.

I’m uncertain where the notion of humankind meeting its extinction with a whimper and not a “bang” began, but it may be prudent to acknowledge that the precursor to that whimper will be the grunt of self-satisfaction that comes from those unwilling and perhaps unable to integrate successfully into the community of mankind.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
China

Mutuality is common or ‘normal’ for many insect species and while some vertebrates exhibit similar behavior, “success” in terms of prolonging a species potential for extended longevity relies on a psychological concept. This construct is product of enlightened thinking as it emerges through an evolved awareness/comprehension of reality.

‘Reality’ is a function of mind.

This reality dictates several a priori truths as awareness informs intellect. It begins with the most basic truth of all. Every living species consumes. Will this species comprehending the finite nature of materials available for consumption in a closed system like that of this planet, evolve sufficiently to integrate this truth as component of awareness capable of influencing behavior?

Species unable to grasp the significance of living within a system of life that imposes insurmountable limits to continued reproduction and consumption will perish. Species extinction is simply an attribute of evolution. “Unsuccessful” organisms are selected for extinction because the balance within this closed system that renders “life” viable becomes disturbed. A change in climate that influences the reproductive and life cycles of a myriad of organisms is one factor among many that are beyond the control of even the most highly evolved species. There are of course many natural phenomena that are similarly impervious to human ideation.

A great deal of emphasis and an almost “spiritual” dynamic has been erected by humankind around the notion that individual ‘freedom” and individual expression and individual ‘prosperity’ are the entitlement of the few. Biodiversity informs living systems that relationships exist between each and every organism within this closed system. Humankind has referred to this relationship as “the food chain”, but it is far more than simply the facility imbued by nature upon any individual organism to rank above any another in these cycles of consumption.

As humankind destroys species through over-consumption and levels great areas of vegetation, more than simply the immediately obvious imbalance is imposed on the whole. As humankind generates artificial substances like plastics and nuclear waste, the immediate disjunction, whether recognized or not, can be denied and ignored. But it can only be denied and ignored for a very short time.

I’ve read these contributions from several folk who exhibit a dark pessimism regarding the future and in fact the future potential of humankind in both the near and the far. This pessimism may be well founded given that humankind has never exhibited a willingness to synthesize his existence with that of the rest of the life that thrives on this little life raft bouncing through the cosmos.

Perhaps when the emphasis on individuality that is currently arrayed by many as the “correct” interface with existence is acknowledged as the psychological cul-de-sac that it is, will there be a rallying to the acceptance of the idea that we are all intimately and irrevocably bound to the plethora of interrelationships that make life possible.

If not the human species will be (and may already be) selected for extinction.

I’m uncertain where the notion of humankind meeting its extinction with a whimper and not a “bang” began, but it may be prudent to acknowledge that the precursor to that whimper will be the grunt of self-satisfaction that comes from those unwilling and perhaps unable to integrate successfully into the community of mankind.


My understanding is that the revelation of "I am" was supposed to lead to "I Think", but modern Man has taken it as: "I am" therefore "I Have"....

The next evolution will lead to the revelation "I can", hopefully we're on the Right path and it should lead to "I can" therefore "I know"....

We'll see how we do....
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
If man does not transform inwardly, though a mutation in his psyche, he will soon join the list of those unfortunate creatures that lives a million years or so on this planet and then became extinct for they could not adapt themselves.
-------------------------------------China--------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, this is how we are going to evolve.

We already know how.

Think about it.

What is our idea of perfection ?

Usually when when think of our bad habits and bad behavior and miscues and mistakes, we think of the following as an improvement:

1. No more forgetting things.
We will fashion ourselves after robots, with nano technology we will rewire and redesign the brain so that we will no longer forget. We will have perfect memories. And we'll figure out how to store all that data, even if part of our offline brains are in a chip we can replace in some receptacle slot on our persons. I'm thinking of some natural orifice. LOL !

2. No more atrophy of muscle and bone.
We will fashion ourselves after robots. Somehow, we're going to get rid of that problem, even it means getting rid of our physical manifestation. No more aches and pains. By the way, the Buddhists know all about this issue. They say our brains drag our bodies around. The brain cares about itself, not the body.

3. No more emotional trauma and wasted behavior.
We will fashion ourselves after robots. Why must we unnecessarily go through all sorts of waisted emotions and pain that cause such obstacles in our quest for solutions ? Why not circumvent this waste of time ? Why cause such pain for others ? Why not understand the healthy approaches ?

4. No more wondering where people are.
We're already beginning to rectify that problem. Our bosses want to know where we are, even if it means tracking us to the 3rd stall in the bathroom. Our parents want to know where we are. We want to know where our children are. In fact, we the people, want to destroy privacy more than Big Brother. George Orwell predicted the utter loss of privacy, but he totally screwed up predicting who was going to cause this.


Epilogue
Enough for now. I could go on about how we are going to correct all our imperfections and how people will deny we want to be like robots, but when you look at each issue, you begin to realize that we are going to be little Gods creating a whole new race --- a race that will dimly remember who we were, a race that will not understand why we behaved that way.

Of course it will be Ground Hog Day for us. You know the movie. Its plot allows for the main character to get a mulligan, a "re-do" for the same day. Of course the irony is that when he avoids one problem, he creates a new one. An analogy for evolution, isn't it ?

And then a final thought, the tao requires opposites and contrasts for us to know anything. If there is no love, then you won't know what apathy is. No valley without a mountain.
 
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MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Jimmoyer

Greetings!

The Tao is eternal. Our comprehension/awareness of the interrelatedness of all things simply facilitates our understanding of this connectedness to the eternal. We live in darkness. Darkness like ‘light’ is perceived through the mind/spirit of the individual. And as the Tao affirms, darkness exists that we may perceive the ‘light’….

When we talk about “enlightenment” that dawning awareness of the light that exists within darkness transcends individual perception and perspective. While no valley exists without a mountain these concepts are metric of a mind seeking dissimilarity and “difference”….when none really exists.

‘Non-being’ or ‘non-existence’ is inherent to the Tao. All perception sense and awareness emerges from the Tao. Extinction is therefore inherent to the Tao as is “existence”.

While many equate or regard “profit” and “success” as those elements of perception and awareness that corporeal beings prefer, it is regrettable that this craving for “success” is measured through ‘ownership’ and is conceptualized as available only to the discrete and individuated self.

The greater sadness is that while we are aware that this “unique” personal perspective on the human condition and our senses of pleasure (preference) and suffering isn’t unique and limited to individual perception, we undertake the Herculean effort to deny the commonality that our being shares with all others. We acknowledge that all people celebrate the birth and lives of their children. And mourn their deaths. We acknowledge that those elements that we all fear arouse an entirely similar fear in the vast majority of our fellow beings. We acknowledge that the universal languages of music and mathematics aren’t conditional on perspective and perception. We all experience a stimulation of our sensory centers at a sunrise or a sunset, at the aroma of still-warm cookies cooling on a plate, at the intoxicating bouquet of delicate roses and the pungent stench of death and decomposition…..

We may play with the semantics of terrorism and revolution, we may juggle the morality of our preferred perspectives but the expression and the effects of these ersatz manifestations impact the totality of humanity.

We are the same; we occupy a physiologic and sensory space that is simply manifestation of the character and essence of our “being”.

Until we can translate this appreciation for the universality of our human-ness experience across the palette of human experience we will remain isolated and alone in our belief that we are separate from all other living things.

We will believe that a black man or a yellow man or a red man is somehow fundamentally “different”, when nothing could be further from the truth.

We gird our misunderstanding of the nature of our own existence through artificial constructs like “religion” and “politics”, counterfeit concepts from a bankrupt philosophy.

Peace to you Jim…and by the way are you feeling any older…;)

MDB


 

Northboy

Electoral Member
Jimmoyer

Greetings!

The Tao is eternal. Our comprehension/awareness of the interrelatedness of all things simply facilitates our understanding of this connectedness to the eternal. We live in darkness. Darkness like ‘light’ is perceived through the mind/spirit of the individual. And as the Tao affirms, darkness exists that we may perceive the ‘light’….

When we talk about “enlightenment” that dawning awareness of the light that exists within darkness transcends individual perception and perspective. While no valley exists without a mountain these concepts are metric of a mind seeking dissimilarity and “difference”….when none really exists.

‘Non-being’ or ‘non-existence’ is inherent to the Tao. All perception sense and awareness emerges from the Tao. Extinction is therefore inherent to the Tao as is “existence”.

While many equate or regard “profit” and “success” as those elements of perception and awareness that corporeal beings prefer, it is regrettable that this craving for “success” is measured through ‘ownership’ and is conceptualized as available only to the discrete and individuated self.

The greater sadness is that while we are aware that this “unique” personal perspective on the human condition and our senses of pleasure (preference) and suffering isn’t unique and limited to individual perception, we undertake the Herculean effort to deny the commonality that our being shares with all others. We acknowledge that all people celebrate the birth and lives of their children. And mourn their deaths. We acknowledge that those elements that we all fear arouse an entirely similar fear in the vast majority of our fellow beings. We acknowledge that the universal languages of music and mathematics aren’t conditional on perspective and perception. We all experience a stimulation of our sensory centers at a sunrise or a sunset, at the aroma of still-warm cookies cooling on a plate, at the intoxicating bouquet of delicate roses and the pungent stench of death and decomposition…..

We may play with the semantics of terrorism and revolution, we may juggle the morality of our preferred perspectives but the expression and the effects of these ersatz manifestations impact the totality of humanity.

We are the same; we occupy a physiologic and sensory space that is simply manifestation of the character and essence of our “being”.

Until we can translate this appreciation for the universality of our human-ness experience across the palette of human experience we will remain isolated and alone in our belief that we are separate from all other living things.

We will believe that a black man or a yellow man or a red man is somehow fundamentally “different”, when nothing could be further from the truth.

We gird our misunderstanding of the nature of our own existence through artificial constructs like “religion” and “politics”, counterfeit concepts from a bankrupt philosophy.

Peace to you Jim…and by the way are you feeling any older…;)

MDB

Great Post....

Good on you....
 

dirtylinder

get dirty
Apr 24, 2007
301
6
18
vancouver island
Mankind is caught in a great illusion. It thinks it can solve its problems through legislation, through political and social reform, through scientific and technological progress, through greater knowledge, greater wealth, greater power and greater control.
Pollitical correctness is one of our greatest threats we will ever face!
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Pollitical correctness is one of our greatest threats we will ever face!

I agree with your observations but have you examined the etiology of this phenomenon?

I'd be interested in any contribution from anyone who believes that "political correctness" is artifact of informed conscience. Wouldn't it be at least more accurate to characterize "political correctness" as submission to ignorance? We are experiencing the fuzzification (to borrow a term from a once very entertaining writer at Mcleans...) of morality. Our impulse to abandon truth in the name of "PC" is a conditioned response. That's not to suggest that "free speech" is a license to inflict emotional abuse on anyone, but leaning toward self-censorship in the name of preserving the "peace" in the current climate of corruption and disingenuousness that passes for "democracy" is wholly similar to responding out of fear on issues like the demonstrations of inhumanity that passes for Islam as practiced by Saudis who punish rape victims, Sudanese who punish teachers for permitting her youngsters to name a children's toy after the figurehead of that faith, abandoning principle has become the benchmark of postmodernity.

How do notions like "don't snitch" become conscripted by African American children who are manipulated to turn their back on law and what in the day we used to call logical consequences...?

How does the limitless and profoundly destructive ethics of Saudi Arabians who are prepared to punish rape victims represent an argument for human rights in a society that's been kept oppressed by western dollars paid for the petro-habit of multi-billionaire businessmen?

When will the festering scab of bigotry and prejudice in the name of "god" or "Allah" or the Christian ethos of dehumanizing non-adherents and thwarting social justice for pedophiles and abusers be ripped from the faces of those who subscribe to these aberant constructs?

Language isn't merely a means to describing or characterizing only those events conditions and phenomena that satisfy the bigots and the haters predisposition to thought and mind control but is the currency of truth. When we abandon truth in favor of "PC", we are all victims.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
I'd be interested in any contribution from anyone who believes that "political correctness" is artifact of informed conscience.
-------------------------------------------MikeyDB-----------------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just the latest phrase for a very old and recurring phenomena.

Group Think.

Zeitgeist.

Small Town cultural pressure.

Mores.

Morality.

Tyranny of the Mob.

It is the group that puts a downward pressure on individuals to conform.

This phenomena by itself is good or bad. Just like hate can have the positive effect of galvanizing you to action ---if that action is good.
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
476
11
18
25
Zurich
Illusion

"Mankind... thinks it can solve its problems... but those are all trivial problems."

You dismiss human progress? You dismiss our problems?

"...but they will not cure the disease. We shall go on creating new problems..."

You exaggerate our problems? You all but call humans the disease.

"If man does not transform inwardly, though a mutation in his psyche, he will soon... became extinct... for could not adapt."

We are in fact the supreme adaptor. See our machines! We have adapted inwardly, have become progressively more civilized. What is this psychic option that you propose? A new Scientology, or the old one?
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
Political correctness was the attempted solution to the observed problem that sticks and stones may break your bones but names will forever haunt you. At some point a bigot called somebody a nasty word and was chastised for it under the guise of political correctness, that bigot decided that he didn't like being called a jerk and tried to conflate political correctness with censorship. So began the backlash against common courtesy.

The current usage of the label "political correctness" is sometimes properly attributed to attempts to teach courteous language, sometimes incorrectly to spin doctoring euphemisms to cover the ugly truth and sometimes incorrectly attributed to laws which criminalize discrimination or hate propaganda.

People are often publicly humiliated when they resort to certain repugnant phrases to describe people of certain immutable characteristics which have nothing to do with personality, merit or actual actions. We all have the right to say, "You sir, are an ignoramus," to all degrees which are less serious than threats, and that is the 'punishment' you face for stepping outside of the boundaries of courtesy, and political correctness inter alia.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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If man does not transform inwardly, though a mutation in his psyche, he will soon join the list of those unfortunate creatures that lives a million years or so on this planet and then became extinct for they could not adapt themselves

The part I wonder about is whether man can last a million years. We have a ways to go. Some say that modern man (homo Sapiens) have been on earth for twenty five thousand years. Others make that as high as fifty thousand years. For man to make it to a million years, we will have to see some drastic changes. Changes I have serious doubt that we can make.
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
476
11
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Zurich
#juan

People, homokind, are already over 2 million years old. Homo sapiens sapiens, anatomically modern people, are 130,000 years old. Homo Georgicus left Africa 1.8 million years ago and spread over Europe and into Asia. Home sapiens sapiens left Africa 60,000 years ago.

Human evolution has stopped with natural selection ceasing to be significant long
before genocide went out of style. We are therefore Homo finito, as immortal as the kindly Earth. The Earth has 900,000,000 years of life left for us. Yes, that is nine-hundred-millions, and we, sapiens sapiens, are only 130,000 year-olds - babies - with our finest years ahead of us, stretetching near to eternity.

Doomsayers wail and moan for nothing and do nothing. They love the company that makes their sloth seem less conspicuous. Some naive and dispirited maiden will comfort and care for them in thier final hour, which is every hour, turning into days, then weeks, and months and years, until the poor dim-witted dear maid realizes that she has wasted her life on a hopeless bum.

What these types need is a good kick in the arse. Do not join them. Do not feed them. Do not let them near your daughter.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
Human evolution has stopped with natural selection ceasing to be significant...
Whatever gave you that idea? You think we are no longer subject to selection pressures? It's true that our technology insulates us from some of them--some people survive to reproduce who wouldn't have without modern medicine, for instance--but it's simply wrong to think we've removed ourselves from nature. Can't be done. We might even be creating other selection pressures with our technology, with all the junk we dump into our environment. Evolution stops for no one.