Wy do we depend on other ?

[china]

I wonder why we ask questions. Why do we depend on others, whether it be a psychologist, a person who is called a priest, a teacher, or from some guru? Why? Is it that all of us are so accustomed to be guided? We seek help from others, we want guidelines, we want to be told what to do, we want to be helped. The world as it is now growing more and more confused, more and more horrible, and we want somebody to tell us or help us to understand ourselves and the world. And I'm asking, is there any help at all from another.Why is it that we can't find the answer in ourselves.
Short and sweet.

 

[Anachronism]

Because one person has one given set of knowledge, one perspective, etc. With more people, there is more knowledge at your disposal and a different perspective with each, thus making it easier to solve problems and answer questions, etc.
One person may not have the knowledge to answer a question. Another person might.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I wonder why we ask questions. Why do we depend on others, whether it be a psychologist, a person who is called a priest, a teacher, or from some guru? Why? Is it that all of us are so accustomed to be guided? We seek help from others, we want guidelines, we want to be told what to do, we want to be helped. The world as it is now growing more and more confused, more and more horrible, and we want somebody to tell us or help us to understand ourselves and the world. And I'm asking, is there any help at all from another.Why is it that we can't find the answer in ourselves.
Short and sweet.

I was wondering round looking for it too. It came in the shape of cheese puffs.
When she gave them to me i wondered why.
I'm better now.

 

[karrie]

I wonder why we ask questions. Why do we depend on others, whether it be a psychologist, a person who is called a priest, a teacher, or from some guru? Why? Is it that all of us are so accustomed to be guided? We seek help from others, we want guidelines, we want to be told what to do, we want to be helped. The world as it is now growing more and more confused, more and more horrible, and we want somebody to tell us or help us to understand ourselves and the world. And I'm asking, is there any help at all from another.Why is it that we can't find the answer in ourselves.
Short and sweet.

For the same reason that trees are stronger when they grow side by side, intertwining their roots for extra support.

A wider base.

A base of knowledge, a base of support, a base of discussion... the bigger the better.

 

[china]

Wow ,wonderful answers , long live communal knowledge.

 

[china]

To depend on others, has become not only the fashion but also that has been the state of man for many centuries – the priest, the soothsayer, the clairvoyant, the guru, the psychologist , Dear Abbys and so on – the whole world says, we’ll help you.Those who want to help us are like ourselves: confused, rather unhappy, they are like you and me.But when one is mature ; is fully responsible for him self , he doesn't have to depend on any one , he is a light to himself( obviously one depends on the postman to deliver his mail ; a milk man to deliver the milk but that,s not what I,m talking about) .We all make mistakes, we often do, things that are not correct, regrets . But if we do not carry those regrets day after day those activities that have brought about confusion, if we see them clearly, and end them immediately, then we don't have to ask for help of nobody. Do we do this? Or just carry on: I’m confused, I’m unhappy, I’ve followed this and I’ve followed that, listened to that person or to that individual,or like karrie states in above post : "intertwining "my roots" for extra support."( a human ain't a tree ...karrie) - and at the end of it all I’m still lost, I’m still confused, unhappy. I hope that you can see the truth that following anybody is most destructive because it denies the freedom, and if there is no freedom there is no love.

Hay ,Quack,the above is a new form of yoga .

 

[Niflmir]

To depend on others, has become not only the fashion but also that has been the state of man for many centuries – the priest, the soothsayer, the clairvoyant, the guru, the psychologist , Dear Abbys and so on – the whole world says, we’ll help you.Those who want to help us are like ourselves: confused, rather unhappy, they are like you and me.But when one is mature ; is fully responsible for him self , he doesn't have to depend on any one , he is a light to himself( obviously one depends on the postman to deliver his mail ; a milk man to deliver the milk but that,s not what I,m talking about) .We all make mistakes, we often do, things that are not correct, regrets . But if we do not carry those regrets day after day those activities that have brought about confusion, if we see them clearly, and end them immediately, then we don't have to ask for help of nobody. Do we do this? Or just carry on: I’m confused, I’m unhappy, I’ve followed this and I’ve followed that, listened to that person or to that individual,or like karrie states in above post : "intertwining "my roots" for extra support."( a human aint a tree ...karrie) - and at the end of it all I’m still lost, I’m still confused, unhappy. I hope that you can see the truth that following anybody is most destructive because it denies the freedom, and if there is no freedom there is no love.

I felt that way right up until I was diagnosed with psychosis. To think that you can live in a community in any way you choose is erroneous. Following yourself is ultimately the most destructive thing of all, focusing on the self to the exclusion of the outside world is manifest self-destruction. Life for the social animal is co-dependence. Unless you are always a leader, you must sometimes take direction, especially when you go astray as I did.

Of course, I don't think Krishnamurti meant to apply this sort of idea in every aspect of life. Typically he meant this sort of thing only in the spiritual realm, but my psychosis did manifest itself as a peculiar form of spirituality. True it was drug induced, but sober individuals with the right imbalance of neurotransmitters have been known to fall into the same spiritual psychotic state. Sometimes, one needs direction, even in the spiritual realm but not so far as the ironclad dogma of some religions.

 

[china]

Because one person has one given set of knowledge, one perspective, etc.

Given knowledge ,given by whom ? - knowledge of what ?.

[QUOTE... thus making it easier to solve problems and answer questions, etc.[/QUOTE]

Well Anachronism I don't have any problems and further more I personally know tens of people here in China in Europe in US ,even in Canada ,that don't have any problems These are my personal and/or business partners of mine and I can vouch for them; ,none of them has any problems .We have only challenges in life and fixing or eliminating those challenges, only make us stronger.Personally , I love a healthy challenge and for that reason I,m still writing in this forum -when I have time.
Obviously Anachronism you must have problems or you wouldn't be writing about them.Have you ever thought what /who is the problem ? Just know Anarchonism that for every problem the answer to that problem is in the very problem itself.

One person may not have the knowledge to answer a question. Another person might.

Personally ,Anachronism , I don't like anyone to answer or speak for me.

 

[china]

T

o think that you can live in a community in any way you choose is erroneous.

I agree with you that you can't live in a community in any way you choose- I have never implied any of the sort .

Following yourself is ultimately the most destructive thing of all, focusing on the self to the exclusion of the outside world is manifest self-destruction.

Yes it is Nifilmir, if you don't know yourself

Life for the social animal is co-dependence. Unless you are always a leader, you must sometimes take direction, especially when you go astray as I did.

I am leader of my self my friend . At a very young age I realized that I don't live any ones life and no one lives mine - I had to find myself in order to find any purpose to this life .This is a fact and and this is my life .I don't pretend to know everything in fact I know very little and If you know Krishnamurti' you should also know the reason for it.
As far as making mistakes and /or going astray ,well I have done my share of both and still doing it ,though not as much.There is nothing wrong with making mistakes -don't do them again - don't dwell on them.

Of course, I don't think Krishnamurti meant to apply this sort of idea in every aspect of life. Typically he meant this sort of thing only in the spiritual realm, but my psychosis did manifest itself as a peculiar form of spirituality.

Krishnamurti lived what he said and stressed not to follow his teachings but to find your own truth .As you know he never implied to be a guru , and he never wanted any followers .

I was called to a meeting .will continue in 2-3 hrs

True it was drug induced, but sober individuals with the right imbalance of neurotransmitters have been known to fall into the same spiritual psychotic state.

I'm not an authority on drugs_ ask Vereya (or anything else for that matter) ,tried them once ...no more .

Sometimes, one needs direction, even in the spiritual realm but not so far as the ironclad dogma of some religions.

Just put your mind mind in order ,that's all .HOW? let's talk an find out.

 

[Niflmir]

One person may not have the knowledge to answer a question. Another person might.

Examples of this are easy. Say you want to know about black holes or general relativity, ask me and I can give you the details you desire without you needing the years of differential geometry background. Say you have a medical problem and you want to be healthy again, you go and seek a doctor and he will help you and you won't need the years of medical schooling. Same for psychology. Same for any field you want to know about. Experience is really and invaluable. Appeal to authority is fallacy yes, but an authority can easily give you the iron clad logically valid explanation.

But this sort of idea was only meant to be applied to spiritual problems; the problem there is, "How do I find my way to enlightenment?" To completely reject society is to ignore what you are and doom yourself from the start, however to partially reject and ignore only the supposed paths of enlightenment is to attempt to find your own path by emphasizing your particular situation. This only leads to trouble if you become psychotic - which can easily happen if you put too much faith in your spiritual beliefs.

But as I have said elsewhere, this very notion is ironic. This is a path whose simple instructions are to not follow paths. Its very message is that you should not heed its words. Necessarily there are exceptions to it: spiritual psychosis is one, this message in particular is another.

 

[Unforgiven]

I wonder why we ask questions. Why do we depend on others, whether it be a psychologist, a person who is called a priest, a teacher, or from some guru? Why? Is it that all of us are so accustomed to be guided? We seek help from others, we want guidelines, we want to be told what to do, we want to be helped. The world as it is now growing more and more confused, more and more horrible, and we want somebody to tell us or help us to understand ourselves and the world. And I'm asking, is there any help at all from another.Why is it that we can't find the answer in ourselves.
Short and sweet.

Perspective is everything. Is the world growing more confused and horrible? Or is it growing at all? Over the weekend I spent most of the days on the water with some friends. Some had such experience that I made a point to listen to them when ever they opened their mouths. Quite often it was something important and relevant to me that they were saying.

So when I say to you that the world is a beautiful place with some of the nicest people, how do we deal with the apparent conflicting views?

 

[china]

Hi Unforgiven

China :

The world as it is now growing more and more confused, more and more horrible....

Unforgiven

So when I say to you that the world is a beautiful place with some of the nicest people, how do we deal with the apparent conflicting views?

The world is a beautiful place with some nicest people, so was the Titanic -beautiful ship -nicest people on board (many ,very naive,just as naive as the ones we have in our beautiful world ).When it came to the critical part of the voyage , I,wonder Unforgiven , if these nice people on board of the ship started to contemplate on how to deal with the "apparent conflicting views" they may have ; of what was happening ? Perhaps some did.

 

[china]

"Freedom from" is an abstraction,t freedom is in observing "what is" and going beyond it. So can a brain that has evolved through time, that has accumulated thousands of experiences, that has been conditioned in various cultures, can such a mind be free, not in some utopian, religious sense of freedom, but actually living in this confused, contradictory world. Can your mind, as you know it, as you have observed it, can it be completely, both on the surface and deep inwardly, free. Because if you do not answer this question for yourselves, you shall always be living in the prison of time, time being the past, time being thought, time being sorrow. Therefore unless you really see the truth of this, you shall always live in conflict, in sorrow, in the prison of thought. Do regard this question, not what your religious teachers have said, not the Bible, the Upanishads, your priests, your social workers , Dear Abby, but what you think; what you say, which is far more important than all the books put together. It means that you yourself have to find the truth of this. Don't repeat what others have said but first find out for yourself, test it out for yourself, testing what you think, what you see, not what others have said. Then you are free from the "authority" ,not depending on any one .

 

[Unforgiven]

Hi Unforgiven

China :Unforgiven The world is a beautiful place with some nicest people, so was the Titanic -beautiful ship -nicest people on board (many ,very naive,just as naive as the ones we have in our beautiful world ).When it came to the critical part of the voyage , I,wonder Unforgiven , if these nice people on board of the ship started to contemplate on how to deal with the "apparent conflicting views" they may have ; of what was happening ? Perhaps some did.

I'm not understanding your question.
Why would their opinion suddenly change with the advent of the crisis? More probable that they found a strengthening in their resolve to hold dear what it was that meant so much to them.

Perhaps we have crossed wires in terms here.

 

[Unforgiven]

"Freedom from" is an abstraction,t freedom is in observing "what is" and going beyond it. So can a brain that has evolved through time, that has accumulated thousands of experiences, that has been conditioned in various cultures, can such a mind be free, not in some utopian, religious sense of freedom, but actually living in this confused, contradictory world. Can your mind, as you know it, as you have observed it, can it be completely, both on the surface and deep inwardly, free. Because if you do not answer this question for yourselves, you shall always be living in the prison of time, time being the past, time being thought, time being sorrow. Therefore unless you really see the truth of this, you shall always live in conflict, in sorrow, in the prison of thought. Do regard this question, not what your religious teachers have said, not the Bible, the Upanishads, your priests, your social workers , Dear Abby, but what you think; what you say, which is far more important than all the books put together. It means that you yourself have to find the truth of this. Don't repeat what others have said but first find out for yourself, test it out for yourself, testing what you think, what you see, not what others have said. Then you are free from the "authority" ,not depending on any one .

I can't see the benefits of being free of mind as you've described here as something that for myself, outweighs the things I personally get from the way my life intertwines with a few others. It's in those complications and stresses that I find the testing of my mettle.

How can freedom to disassociate be of benefit?

 

[china]

Hi Unforgiven ,

I can't see the benefits of being free of mind as you've described here

My intention was to describe a way to a "free mind" ,not being free of mind .

How can freedom to disassociate be of benefit?

I don,t think I understand your question .Obviously one is free to do what one wills ; if not ....benefits don't mean a thing.

 

[Unforgiven]

Hi Unforgiven ,
My intention was to describe a way to a "free mind" ,not being free of mind .

I don,t think I understand your question .Obviously one is free to do what one wills ; if not ....benefits don't mean a thing.

I'll have to think on the free mind aspect more.

But one isn't free to do as one will. Consequence dictates to some degree the choices that are acceptable. Physical limitations also apply.

The benefit of the fishbowl.

 

[china]

China , The world as it is now growing more and more confused, more and more horrible..

..

Unforgiven ,

Perspective is everything. Is the world growing more confused and horrible? Or is it growing at all? Over the weekend I spent most of the days on the water with some friends. Some had such experience that I made a point to listen to them when ever they opened their mouths. Quite often it was something important and relevant to me that they were saying.
So when I say to you that the world is a beautiful place with some of the nicest people, how do we deal with the apparent conflicting views?

China :Unforgiven The world is a beautiful place with some nicest people, so was the Titanic -beautiful ship -nicest people on board (many ,very naive,just as naive as the ones we have in our beautiful world ).When it came to the critical part of the voyage , I,wonder Unforgiven , if these nice people on board of the ship started to contemplate on how to deal with the "apparent conflicting views" they may have ; of what was happening ? Perhaps some did.

I'm not understanding your question.
Why would their opinion suddenly change with the advent of the crisis? More probable that they found a strengthening in their resolve to hold dear what it was that meant so much to them.

Perhaps we have crossed wires in terms here.

Perhaps

 

[china]

Unforgiven

But one isn't free to do as one will. Consequence dictates to some degree the choices that are acceptable. Physical limitations also apply.

e
But one isn't free to do as one will.--why not ?, I hope that you will agree with me that you were born with a free mind .What happen to it Unforgiven?, sold it for "benefits"?

 

[Unforgiven]

Unforgiven

e
But one isn't free to do as one will.--why not ?, I hope that you will agree with me that you were born with a free mind .What happen to it Unforgiven?, sold it for "benefits"?

Parts of it I think, and my heart too. I can't sleep with anyone I want to without losing the benefit of the company of my soul mate. I can't take off to sail round the Horn because of those dependant upon me and the loss of the benefits I gain from having them depend on me. Rather than free mind leading to truth, it would have the opposite effect upon me. Clouding my mind and taking away support I've grown to depend on myself.