An Anonymous Crowd

[sanctus]

Humanity is experiencing a new loneliness; it is not in the face of a hostile nature which it has taken centuries to subdue, but in an anonymous crowd which surrounds men and women and in which they feel themselves to be strangers. Urbanization, undoubtedly an irreversible stage in the development of human societies, confronts humanity with difficult problems. How are men and women to master its growth, regulate its organization, and successfully accomplish its animation for the good of all? Pope Paul VI, 1971

 

[darkbeaver]

Humanity is experiencing a new loneliness; it is not in the face of a hostile nature which it has taken centuries to subdue, but in an anonymous crowd which surrounds men and women and in which they feel themselves to be strangers. Urbanization, undoubtedly an irreversible stage in the development of human societies, confronts humanity with difficult problems. How are men and women to master its growth, regulate its organization, and successfully accomplish its animation for the good of all? Pope Paul VI, 1971

The control of capital by public social institutions is absolutely necessary. Urbanization is reversable and must occur. I think we have to return to the village and the town, permaculturally. Class warfare must drive the rich out of office and out of bussiness, they must never rise again.The solutions are as obvious as the problems, those problems are not new.
Contribution and solidarity have always provided a necessary sense of inclusivity.We don't get that from the modern culture which demands more and more that we pay to belong. Every aspect of our dayly lives seems to be spewed at us through a corporate sieve begging our consumption of this that and the other thing, and offering that consumption instead of real social and cultural roots.
We owe our souls to the company store.

 

[tamarin]

Sanctus, we're alone because of technology. Children don't believe in community; they believe in accessing it. Their world is an extension of the gadgets they own. Adults are busy living lives dependent on two incomes and those jobs are increasingly, in substance and longevity, not the ones promised by futurists in the 60's. They're tired, they're frustrated and they live in neighbourhoods where few have time to organize the social events and networks that used to bind them.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus, we're alone because of technology. Children don't believe in community; they believe in accessing it. Their world is an extension of the gadgets they own. Adults are busy living lives dependent on two incomes and those jobs are increasingly, in substance and longevity, not the ones promised by futurists in the 60's. They're tired, they're frustrated and they live in neighbourhoods where few have time to organize the social events and networks that used to bind them.

A good point, but I think it's just an excuse.We're alone because we choose to be, because we as a whole have allowed our moral fabric as a people to disintegrate away. We accept anything goes and so we ignore that everything does. We rush around one another, in this constant hurry and if asked, most of us would not know what we rush to. We are not too tired to take the time, we're too self-absorbed. We live in the ultimate hedonistic society that celebrates the self above all else.If we're unhappy in our marriages, we dispose of the spouse. If our children get on our nerves, we give them money to go away. If the neighbour annoys, we do not talk to them, we call the police on them.

When reminded that we are to be a community, we claim we are too busy, too tired, too this, too that. And yet, we are all afraid.

 

[Niflmir]

I grew up in the small town Yarmouth of Nova Scotia where I was surrounded on a daily basis by people I knew. Did I feel like part of the community? Sadly, no.

I did my Undergraduate degree in the small transient town of Wolfville, Nova Scotia. I had more friends and more of a sense of belonging. Did I feel like part of the community? Sadly, no.

I moved to Vancouver, British Columbia to study my Master's degree. I had never felt so surrounded by friends. Maybe it was just because I was surrounded by people of like mind finally, either way I found a community to belong to.

As for urbanization, industrialization and secularization seems to have a powerful negative effect on the birth rate. Industrialize and secularize all the nations in the world and, all things being equal, the population would pull a 180.

 

[SVMc]

an anonymous crowd which surrounds men and women and in which they feel themselves to be strangers. Urbanization, undoubtedly an irreversible stage in the development of human societies, confronts humanity with difficult problems. How are men and women to master its growth, regulate its organization, and successfully accomplish its animation for the good of all?

There has been a growing interest in this phenomena probably at least since the 1970's (probably earlier). In the post-war era there was a romanticization of the the small-town feel. A back to the country, back to the community leave it to beaver nostalgia. When humans have to live in small communities it is hard no to know everything about everyone, and this forces a kind of cooperation, but I can't help but recognize that these types of communities often fostered "othering" and intolerance for difference.

It is true in an urban environment it is much more difficult to know your neighbours and to feel a sense of community that is directly corelated to the street that you live on / city you live in. But, I think it is a mistake in the age of urbanization and information to assume that community does not exist. The benefits of urbanization and information are the same the quantity and diversity of people and view points makes it easier and more accessible to find communities to which one can truly feel they belong. In a small town, if your views are not that of the majority it is easy to feel like an outsider, like you don't belong. Whereas in an urban center with the speed of information it is easier to network and find like minded people to build a sense of community with.

For example you can live in small town Alberta (feel free to send me a TO jab for this one Albertans) and be a raving environmentalist but you are unlikely to exercise your views or feel a sense of community if the majority of the community sees the environmental movement as an enemy on their socio-economic lifestyle. Whereas in a large urban setting I may not share the exact same interests or feel close to my neighbours, but I can find similarly minded people, politically, socially, environmentally and build a sense of community in those contexts.

The challenge is that community is ceasing to be a location. The new community is centered around interest and is an information destination for like minded individuals who can exist across the city or across the world.

 

[Pangloss]

Humanity is experiencing a new loneliness; it is not in the face of a hostile nature which it has taken centuries to subdue, but in an anonymous crowd which surrounds men and women and in which they feel themselves to be strangers. Urbanization, undoubtedly an irreversible stage in the development of human societies, confronts humanity with difficult problems. How are men and women to master its growth, regulate its organization, and successfully accomplish its animation for the good of all? Pope Paul VI, 1971

Gee Sanctus, Jane Jacobs was saying exactly that in what, 1961? The Death and Life of Great American Cities. Probably the single most influential and popular book on urban life and planning, I couldn't begin to imagine how many copies have been sold around the world. Maybe even the Vatican library has a copy.

So the pope was only a decade behind the secular world. . .not bad. Better than the pope was with Copernicus.

Pangloss

 

[Curiosity]

I disagree with isolation in urban dwellings - it is a choice people make for various reasons but it is not something that is 'done to them' but what they expect or take no active role in changing.

I have moved every two years for the past six years and have managed to engage some extremely close friendships with neighbors simply by never passing them without a smile and if possible a hello. I make all the first moves, willing to take a chance and out of the hundreds I meet shopping, or just circulating on my own street, I will not be rebuffed and I never have.

Some children are cautious as they should be and I never stop to engage them unless they have an adult -but all adults I have met at work or on the phone or doing business with respond in kind.

If you enjoy making friends, you will. It is a simple thing. So if one grumpy gives you an odd look - that is his/her problem not yours.

The truth is I have had more difficult encounters on the internet with people than I have had in real life and after I survived the first years of being battered by those who truly dislike me I find I am stronger for it and still make the choice of initiating a friendship.

The people who do not like me for my style (or lack thereof) or where I live or what I say - have their rights - and I have more time to make new friendships.

 

[Pangloss]

Curiosity is right - cities need not be isolating places - we are social beings after all.

The suburbs, where people "cocoon" and never walk anywhere and never get to know their neighbours - now that's isolating.

Perhaps the pope was worried because city dwellers are a little less RC than the country folk. Maybe his concern had more to do with market share than people's welfare.

Besides, there are some pretty simple design principles that can encourage a more social community, where people get to know their neighbours, where the division between the rich (exactly how much land does the RC church own, by the way?) and the poor is lessened, and crime is minimized.

All of it is in Jacob's aforementioned book, and a score of others have written on the subject.

Again, it's that pesky secular, rationalist, scientific world that identifies the problems first, and proposes solutions.

Pangloss

 

[L Gilbert]

A good point, but I think it's just an excuse.We're alone because we choose to be, because we as a whole have allowed our moral fabric as a people to disintegrate away. We accept anything goes and so we ignore that everything does. We rush around one another, in this constant hurry and if asked, most of us would not know what we rush to. We are not too tired to take the time, we're too self-absorbed. We live in the ultimate hedonistic society that celebrates the self above all else.If we're unhappy in our marriages, we dispose of the spouse. If our children get on our nerves, we give them money to go away. If the neighbour annoys, we do not talk to them, we call the police on them.
When reminded that we are to be a community, we claim we are too busy, too tired, too this, too that. And yet, we are all afraid.

Pretty tough to be community minded in things like cities where there are multitudes of communities all with different views. Um, cliques, I think is the term used. Not quite that bad around here except for the urbies moving into the neighborhood. Definitely antisocial bunch. Smile at em and it seems to prompt a stretching of their mouths rather than a returned smile. It's comical. Trying to get a conversation about how they're doing now that they've moved here is like squeezing color from a sun-bleached bone. Also comical. When you do manage to get a couple tentative words outta them, it's stuff like "We need a Canadian Tire here" or "Isn't it awkward having to go 8 kliks to get a paper?" "Ah," we say, "You want the peace, quiet, and solitude with all the conveniences of city life. Good luck in that venture". Cities = nests and hives. The sticks = neighbors.

 

[L Gilbert]

On the other hand, it's fairly easy to break folks outta their shells in the city. They almost appear relieved when some country bumpkin comes along and actually talks to them like they are real people. It's a delusion we allow them to keep.

 

[L Gilbert]

Heh heh. Familiarity breeds contempt. High density helps that concept I think.

 

[Pangloss]

LG - I've lived in rural settings very much like you describe yours to be, and I've lived in:

Vancouver
Calgary
Toronto
Los Angeles
Portland, Oregon
Seattle
and briefly, Mexico City.

I have found great friendship and community in all of these cities, to a greater or lesser degree. Mexico City was just too much for me, too big, too fast, too noisy - but a whole bunch of other folks would want to live nowhere else.

Different people thrive in different settings - yeah, I know - a tautology - but it is still true.

Eventually, I'll move to Vancouver Island - better weather, the ocean, greener landscape. I'll still want to be near a city.

Pangloss

 

[selfactivated]

tautology

I know that word! The sky is blue cause the water is blue and the water is blue cause the sky is blue......... hey I think Im getting smater by osmosis!

 

[Libra Girl]

If you enjoy making friends, you will. It is a simple thing. So if one grumpy gives you an odd look - that is his/her problem not yours.
The truth is I have had more difficult encounters on the internet with people than I have had in real life and after I survived the first years of being battered by those who truly dislike me I find I am stronger for it and still make the choice of initiating a friendship.

Yes, I see where you are coming from, but it is not as easy for everyone. Some people have great difficulty in making friends, not because they are anti-social, or grumpy, but because they are either inordinately reserved or shy, or even both. Speaking as one of these people I can tell you that it's not something one wants to be, necessarily, yet is hard to overcome. I joined forums a couple of years ago in order to try to overcome these traits, to try to 'open up' a bit more.

Ordinarily, I would never be as outgoing as I am here in threads, in real life. I am fine in my own small circle of friends and family, but with strangers, or even friends of friends it is difficult to be open, and not because I want to be like that... it's just how I'm made. I have to travel a lot, and the thought of having to sit next to a stranger on a plane and make small talk is nigh on an impossible task. It takes an herculean effort just to post a thread here, without suffering from a kinda stagefright, lol.

 

[Curiosity]

LibraGirl

Bravo for admitting your shy nature, and for posting to a group of strangers. We are all different people and when I started on forums a long while ago I was home on medical leave and I had no idea how interesting people could be other than those in my family or my friends.

You have made a start and one day when you are feeling strong and courageous you might try a smile - or a good morning - or something appropriate - even a thank you so much works.... I love to tell people "behave yourself" or "stay out of trouble today"...the women giggle as if they were planning to get into some kind of hilarious activity and the men for a few seconds think about it actually happening hahaha....

I used to have panic attacks in stores and crowds of people and had a terrible time just managing myself let alone anyone else around me. I tried all kinds of medications and they just made me sick or weirder.... one day I asked a lady about cooking artichokes in the grocery store - and my life changed! We got into the whole issue and spent the rest of our time shopping together walking the aisles chatting - I have never seen her again but at the end of my 'visit' with her I got into my car and wept. It was the first time in years I felt comfortable being in a crowd, sitting them bawling and snorting people must have thought I was mad.

Nobody is as frightened as we imagine ourselves to be. All are eager to hear a kind word - especially from a stranger - or a question we ourselves can answer and help with. Extending our own selves to others is how we were meant to be and somehow in the population explosion and isolation from each other in large cities, we have lost that familiarity.

We're all the same Libra - why not brighten up someone else's day instead of feeling hesitant in your own world. It's free and packs great feelings of good stuff.

 

[Outta here]

Curiosity, that was just a really nice post.
Libra Girl, I think you've done amazingly well here for someone who is shy. I would never have known it if you hadn't said anything.

 

[darkbeaver]

Pangloss, I think, mentioned Jane Jacobs she maintained that citys are not designed for people they are designed mainly for commerce and vehicle traffic, and they are. Our large urban areas are dirty, fast, noisey and they don't get dark. They are very expensive in that everything consumed in them must be imported and they are power holes, they bleed energy. Big citys are probably soon to be things of the past. Water and fuel to maintain them simply won't be allocated to unproductive places like citys.

 

[sanctus]

... it's just how I'm made. I have to travel a lot, and the thought of having to sit next to a stranger on a plane and make small talk is nigh on an impossible task. It takes an herculean effort just to post a thread here, without suffering from a kinda stagefright, lol.

We all experience other people differently. For example, I am not what anyone would term a "shy"person. I easily begin conversations with people and continue to engage them in a conversation until they start to respond. I have never really been bothered about getting up in front of crowds and "yacking".

Yet, I know many people that are as you describe yourself. I wonder if it is self conditioned or part of the process the individual goes through in maturation?

I find that you display a wonderful and intelligent discourse as a member here. Realizing that it might not be as easy for you to engage in conversations, as you suggest, actually inclines me to think you are perhaps of a more interesting and serious nature than you give yourself credit for.
Despite what you may believe, I think your warmth and sincerity flows from your written words.

 

[Curiosity]

Curiosity, that was just a really nice post.
Libra Girl, I think you've done amazingly well here for someone who is shy. I would never have known it if you hadn't said anything.

Thanks Zan! When I read Libra Girl's post I felt sad for all the people she passes in her daily life who won't get to know what a warm and caring human she is.