Life begins...

When does life begin?

  • Somewhere between conception and birth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Birth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Every sperm / egg is sacred

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

LittleRunningGag

Electoral Member
Jan 11, 2006
611
2
18
Calgary, Alberta
members.shaw.ca
I'm sure that everyone is just jumping for another abortion thread but the bump of the other one got me thinking about a quesiton that I've been wrestling with for the last few weeks:

Many people have differing opinions on when life begins. Some believe that a baby isn't alive until it takes its first breath. Pro-lifers tend to believe that life begins at conception, thus their stance on abortion.

In the end though, we all agree that no one should be killed in an abortion. The ultimate goal of the anti-abortion advocate is to prevent the murder of innocent children, or potential children (depending on how you look at it). Correct?

So, going with that, why is it that anti-abortionists arn't advocating for mandatory pregnacy for women of birthing age? If the ultimate goal is to ensure that no potential life goes unborn, wouldn't all women have the moral obligation to ensure that every one of her eggs goes fertilized (within her reasonable control)?

Isn't, as the song goes, every sperm sacred? If not, why the arbitrary birth begins at conception? Why not believe that life begins when the child is born? Is it because fetuses look like humans, while sperm (s... i... ites...?) and eggs don't look anything like people?

Just curious.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Interesting Jersay and JonB2004, after birth says you? So a minute? hour? day? week? month? before, the baby isn't alive, is that what you're saying?
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
It is growing like any organism. But it doesn't know its surroundings. It doesn't have the intelligence to understand it self and its self to be sentient. Its a growing organism living off of someone else and when it begins to live on its own, birth it is a human being.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
I think not said:
Jersay, an infant doesn't know what the hell is going on until many months after birth, your argument doesn't make any sense.

Yes an infant knows limited stuff when it is born. Its not a clean slate and parents train it stuff. It knows how to breath, cry. When it needs something it gets someone's attention.

However, before that it is feeding off someone else, the nutrients from its mom.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
I think a human life begins at the instant the sperm fertilizes the egg. Certainly the potential is there. It's not a fully formed person, but neither is a two-year old, and I presume nobody would advocate killing off inconvenient two-year olds. They're all inconvenient.

The real question is, when and under what circumstances is it legitimate to destroy a human life. All societies throughout history have accepted that there are circumstances under which it's allowed, even encouraged; war and self-defense come to mind. The old feminist argument about a woman having a right to control her own body is a red herring; it's not a matter of rights at all, it's a matter of what's possible. If a woman really *could* control her own body, the question would never arise, there would be no unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies arise only because we can't control our own bodies to that extent; I can't suppress the fertility of my sperm, nor can any woman I might squirt them into (a *VERY* short list :lol:) suppress the fertility of her ova, without artificial intervention.

The basic ethical question never changes, thought the answer does in different societies: when is it permissible to kill a human being?

And no, I don't know the answer. I can answer only on a case by case basis.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Re: Life Begins...

In my opinion, a baby has "life" and is alive when that child has reached the point where, if removed from the mother, that child could continue to live with his or her anatomical connection to the mother severed, and without the use of artificial means to sustain life. Obviously, this is a very general definition.
 

Simpleton

Electoral Member
Jun 17, 2006
443
0
16
Sarnia
sarnia.selfip.org
Re: Life Begins...

FiveParadox said:
In my opinion, a baby has "life" and is alive when that child has reached the point where, if removed from the mother, that child could continue to live with his or her anatomical connection to the mother severed, and without the use of artificial means to sustain life. Obviously, this is a very general definition.

So, in your opinion, and by your very specific definition, a child born prematurely, and requiring mechanical life support, would not have "life," and could be summarily terminated?

Wow! So much for the humane and compassionate FiveParadox.

Of course, you do realize that premature births are rather commonplace, and that the medical community has an obligation to use whatever means necessary to ensure that the infant survives. This often means that the premature infant would not survive of its own accord, and would thus require mechanical life supporting apparatus. But you think this is what? Too costly? Too much effort?
 

JonB2004

Council Member
Mar 10, 2006
1,188
0
36
That's not he was saying, you idiot. FiveParadox was saying that until the baby is disconnected from its mother, it doesn't have a life. It still has a life even if it has to go on life support after birth. You should read people posts properly before you post.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I disagree with forced birth. Too draconian for my liking.
 

Simpleton

Electoral Member
Jun 17, 2006
443
0
16
Sarnia
sarnia.selfip.org
Re: RE: Life begins...

JonB2004 said:
That's not he was saying, you idiot. FiveParadox was saying that until the baby is disconnected from its mother, it doesn't have a life. It still has a life even if it has to go on life support after birth. You should read people posts properly before you post.

Read his post again. Disconnected from the mother? Sustain life on its own after birth? Disconnection from the mother is birth. Read the post again.

I'll patiently await an apology.
 

Simpleton

Electoral Member
Jun 17, 2006
443
0
16
Sarnia
sarnia.selfip.org
flashman said:
When the dog dies and the kids leave home.

Well, if that's the case, then life is never going to begin for me. The dog died back in 1989, but this kid is never leaving home... Not until they carry me out in a casket.

Although, if I suddenly become very wealthy by winning a lottery, or through boatloads of lawsuit settlements, I'll go buy a big house... But I'd have my folks move in with me. And I'd probably get another dog too... woof, woof... :lol:
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
To me it's obvious that our lives begin at birth. Otherwise why celebrate birthdays? Shouldn't we start celebrating our conception day instead?