Could the world cope with the death of Abraham?

[CDNBear]

And the whole concept of religion and the significant impact of it on mankind.

That is to say, or ask rather. If a person or group, held in their possession, the absolute proof that the whole of the basis of Abrahamism is a fraud, could the world handle the news?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Huh. First (I admit freely) I had to google "Abrahamism" with the shortest
and simplest answer I could find: Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then I had to ask myself, "Would the world have a choice whether to handle the news
or not?"

Religion being based on faith, would it matter if absolute proof that the whole of the
basis of Abrahamism was a fraud? Would that change anything significantly?

 

[B00Mer]

And the whole concept of religion and the significant impact of it on mankind.

That is to say, or ask rather. If a person or group, held in their possession, the absolute proof that the whole of the basis of Abrahamism is a fraud, could the world handle the news?

Keep dreaming, but it would be nice..

[youtube]-Gxc0XEoQpQ[/youtube]

 

[B00Mer]

Religulous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Goober]

And the whole concept of religion and the significant impact of it on mankind.

That is to say, or ask rather. If a person or group, held in their possession, the absolute proof that the whole of the basis of Abrahamism is a fraud, could the world handle the news?

You should have added - What if it was proven that we have a Creator. How would that change the peoples views and actions.

 

[CDNBear]

Would that change anything significantly?

I believe so.

It is the basis of religion and law around the world.

Proving it to be a fraud, IMHO, would cause great upheaval.

You should have added - What if it was proven that we have a Creator. How would that change the peoples views and actions.

If that's what I wanted to gather opinion on, I would have.

 

[Goober]

I believe so.

It is the basis of religion and law around the world.

Proving it to be a fraud, IMHO, would cause great upheaval.

If that's what I wanted to gather opinion on, I would have.

Ok- I believe that we would see major civil strife- crime would rise- many people would change and not in a nice way.

 

[B00Mer]

Ok- I believe that we would see major civil strife- crime would rise- many people would change and not in a nice way.

Sodom and Gomorrah... ??

Oh we already have that, it's called Las Vegas and Thailand.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I believe so.

It is the basis of religion and law around the world.

Proving it to be a fraud, IMHO, would cause great upheaval.

Proving it to be a fraud (an absolute fraud), vrs people's faith in what can't
be proven....wouldn't that just create room for justification in the religions
using different interpratation pulled from the same documents from
before the fraud was exposed?

Life going on as previously but with a sleight twist in the justification for
several billion, denial outright by a significant portion of the proof of a
fraud taking place, a few U.S. embassys in the Middle east (and a KFC
or McDonalds) being trashed.....and then it falling from the news cycle
for the most part within a few days or a week as something else comes
alone to distract the masses with our short attention spans?

 

[SLM]

And the whole concept of religion and the significant impact of it on mankind.

That is to say, or ask rather. If a person or group, held in their possession, the absolute proof that the whole of the basis of Abrahamism is a fraud, could the world handle the news?

Essentially you're talking about proving a negative, so how could that truth be proven?

I think as things stand right now, it is commonly understood that when one says "God exists" or "God doesn't exist", what's really being said is "I believe or I don't believe". Even if that's not what the person means who is saying it, that still is what is heard by others. Because what we hear is always going to be contingent upon what we believe to be true. Our internal information filter.

But for the sake of argument, let's say it could be proven. I think it would cause upheaval and be met with tremendous resistance. But it's a difficult thing to wrap your head around, this notion that you could prove to someone with a belief, a faith, something that completely contradicts their faith. I think we also have to take into account how much our culture & history is tied up with religious beliefs.

 

[CDNBear]

Proving it to be a fraud (an absolute fraud), vrs people's faith in what can't
be proven....wouldn't that just create room for justification in the religions
using different interpratation pulled from the same documents from
before the fraud was exposed?

Life going on as previously but with a sleight twist in the justification for
several billion, denial outright by a significant portion of the proof of a
fraud taking place, a few U.S. embassys in the Middle east (and a KFC
or McDonalds) being trashed.....and then it falling from the news cycle
for the most part within a few days or a week as something else comes
alone to distract the masses with our short attention spans?

So in other words, many wouldn't cope, they would just deny the proof and carry on in denial?

What about those that chose to avoid denial and take it all in?

 

[Goober]

So in other words, many wouldn't cope, they would just deny the proof and carry on in denial?

What about those that chose to avoid denial and take it all in?

One Philosopher stated that if man did not have religion we would have to invent it- Studies have shown the positives of religious beliefs – for those looking for a link – I suggest Google.
Religious beliefs affect our everyday interactions with people – from those we know to those we do not- charitable acts- obeying the law ( for the most part) and on and on.

 

[CDNBear]

One Philosopher stated that if man did not have religion we would have to invent it- Studies have shown the positives of religious beliefs – for those looking for a link – I suggest Google.
Religious beliefs affect our everyday interactions with people – from those we know to those we do not- charitable acts- obeying the law ( for the most part) and on and on.

Something lost on atheists, that are governed by the same things.

 

[Goober]

Something lost on atheists, that are governed by the same things.

The majority of the world’s population have a religious belief - Atheists are a minority- The question then would go back to how they were raised- If they became an Atheist after being exposed to a religious belief while growing up - It would still have an impact upon them. Some impact would be positive - some impact would be negative –

Also if they came from a family that were Atheist – How did they build their value system – From the parents –then were they exposed to religion-

How to separate their value system whether parts were or were not related to exposure to religion would be difficult.

 

[CDNBear]

The majority of the world’s population have a religious belief - Atheists are a minority- The question then would go back to how they were raised- If they became an Atheist after being exposed to a religious belief while growing up - It would still have an impact upon them. Some impact would be positive - some impact would be negative –

Also if they came from a family that were Atheist – How did they build their value system – From the parents –then were they exposed to religion-

Unless you were raised in a sterile bubble, one can not grow in this world, without being touched by religion of some form or another.

How to separate their value system whether parts were or were not related to exposure to religion would be difficult.

Since the creation of Abrahamism, everyone has been touched by it, in one way shape or form.

Having it yanked out from those that adhere to one of the encompassed faiths, would/could be apocalyptic.

 

[eh1eh]

The majority of the world’s population have a religious belief - Atheists are a minority- The question then would go back to how they were raised- If they became an Atheist after being exposed to a religious belief while growing up - It would still have an impact upon them. Some impact would be positive - some impact would be negative –

Also if they came from a family that were Atheist – How did they build their value system – From the parents –then were they exposed to religion-

How to separate their value system whether parts were or were not related to exposure to religion would be difficult.

So you say it's 'impossible' to have good moral values unless you 'believe' in unsubstantiated religious doctrines or were at least indoctrinated as a child?

I could tell you haw to build a moral value system without religion but I see you have been indoctrinated and would likely not accept any rational explanation.

 

[CDNBear]

So you say it's 'impossible' to have good moral values unless you 'believe' in unsubstantiated religious doctrines or were at least indoctrinated as a child?

No, he isn't saying that at all.At least that's not how I read it.

We are touched by religious values almost from day one. It's impossible to separate region from our daily lives. It surrounds us.

I have no doubt that as a people we could have eventually come to some form of peaceful (So to speak) existence, and understanding of our surroundings, but as bumpy and bloody as it was, religion managed to take us there already.

 

[Niflmir]

Essentially you're talking about proving a negative, so how could that truth be proven?

Please, don't hop on that bandwagon. There is no distinction in logic between positive and negative propositions. More generally, anytime you prove anything, you prove an infinite number of negatives. For some equations in mathematics, all you can ever prove is that no solution exists.

However, real facts don't have the comfortable veracity that mathematical facts have. If we can prove anything then we can prove that Abraham Lincolm wasn't a vampire hunter. If we can prove that we can just as easily proves that the Jews were never a slave class in Egypt. That is to say, Exodus never happened. If Exodus never happened then Moses was never wandering in the desert to receive the ten commandments. And on and on it goes.

Humans find ways to explain away uncomfortable facts. Like when my ex left me, clearly it wasn't my fault...

 

[Goober]

So you say it's 'impossible' to have good moral values unless you 'believe' in unsubstantiated religious doctrines or were at least indoctrinated as a child?

I could tell you haw to build a moral value system without religion but I see you have been indoctrinated and would likely not accept any rational explanation.

Perhaps you should read my post again but from a neutral point of view.

No I did not say that- You would have to study people to determine their values - how they arrived at those values.

Indoctrinated - No- Have a belief in religion - Yes - Force it on others -No- I believe strongly in Free Will.

 

[eh1eh]

Perhaps you should read my post again but from a neutral point of view.

No I did not say that- You would have to study people to determine their values - how they arrived at those values.

Indoctrinated - No- Have a belief in religion - Yes - Force it on others -No- I believe strongly in Free Will.

Yes, I see how I miss read it. You asked, "Also if they came from a family that were Atheist – How did they build their value system – From the parents –then were they exposed to religion- " , but I see what you were getting at that even in an atheist environment religion is inescapable.
I learned a disdain for religion by attend church with my friends at a young age. My parents imparted no religious beliefs to me, only good moral values for the sake of it. So that makes your point in a round about way.


I believe there would be calamity in the world if the basis for 'religious belief' was proven wrong or nonexistent.
Only about one billion people on this planet would be relieved. And that would be contingent on how this was proven, for instance, some other entities revealing themselves to us could be disconcerting to anyone. For the record I don't mean UFOs per se, more like any other being that is superior to us.