GM annouces new cuts

Starscream

Electoral Member
May 23, 2008
201
2
18
Somewhere, someplace
If things weren't bad enough for GM employees here in Ontario, GM has announced that the Oshawa truck plant will be closed some time in 2009. There was just suppose to have one shift eliminated at the truck plant. Earlier this year, GM has announced the closure of the transmission plant in Windsor which puts 1400 peope out of work either later this year or next year. So far this makes a total of 4000 GM job loses (1400 at Windsor, 2600 at Oshawa) just this year, and the year isn't over yet.

I even wonder if Ford or Chrysler have job cut plans this year. That'll make things even worse for this province.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,844
93
48
I wonder when Toyota in Cambridge, or Honda in Alliston will be announcing layoffs; last I heard they were both expanding. Bloody non-union companies.
 

lena

Electoral Member
Feb 20, 2005
131
1
18
ab
no one wants their trucks....no trucks no business...ummmm what do the workers not get here..lol its the blood and stone ****.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
I really have nothing useful to add to this thread, I just want to say that I think Starscream is an absolutely brilliant user name, I wish I'd thought of it.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
120
63
50
no one wants their trucks....no trucks no business...ummmm what do the workers not get here..lol its the blood and stone ****.

Probably the fact that they just worked out a new contract and made concessions with the belief that GM would stick around. I think the $200+ million that the government gave GM is a pretty sore spot too.

I am just curious. If they decide to move all their plants to China and Mexico who will buy cars? Certainly no one around here, as a lot of people would be out of a job.

(This wasn't aimed at you, Lena. Yours was just the post that I decided to quote.:smile:)
 

Starscream

Electoral Member
May 23, 2008
201
2
18
Somewhere, someplace
I really have nothing useful to add to this thread, I just want to say that I think Starscream is an absolutely brilliant user name, I wish I'd thought of it.

Thanks for the compliment.

I thought the prov. gov. gave 175$ million dollars to GM. Oh well, I guess it doesn't really matter the exact number, the McGuinty gov. is looking into getting that money back from GM, or part of it at least. The GM division HUMMER is under consideration of being sold off or revamped. I wonder how long GM is going to close plants here and in the U.S.

They want "job security". Work at the Toyota and Honda plants.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
I wonder when Toyota in Cambridge, or Honda in Alliston will be announcing layoffs; last I heard they were both expanding. Bloody non-union companies.

Good Morning Walter and a Fine Day to You and Yours,

It is quite obvious that you are pro-union. I do not know if it was necessary for you to become unionized to get the job that you were seeking. In your opinion which I respect, unions are a good thing. I will have to be in opposition of your stance.
The Steinberg Corporation, which at its peak had more employees than the Quebec Government, was destroyed by unions. Their greed lead to one of the greatest travesties I have ever known.
I was a store manager for five years in this corporation and was very familiar with union/management negotiations.
I myself was not unionized but always carried a copy of the latest agreement.
Now you will have to explain to me the pure stupidity of the following (based on the last agreement I had):

- 37.5 hour week (average pay per hour $16.00)
- double overtime from 37.5 to 40 hours and triple beyond that
- 14 paid sick days based on hours worked, if not used added to Christmas bonus
- birthday paid and day off, if worked triple pay
- anniversary of first day started on job paid and day off, if worked triple pay
- uniforms supplied by company and dry cleaning paid by company
- double pay when taking inventory (taken twice a year)
- two week pay bonus at Christmas based on last twelve weeks worked, plus regular pay
- two week paid vacation after two years, three week paid vacation after five years and four weeks paid vacation after ten years (all based on last twelve weeks worked)
- full 100% medical coverage (deductible paid by company)

It is no wonder that the corporation went under.
Please justify this.
IMPHO I would not be knocking Toyota or Honda because they treat their employees fairly. Their employee losses are less than 1.5 %
My most sincere regards,
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:

 
Last edited:

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
Good Morning Walter and a Fine Day to You and Yours,

It is quite obvious that you are pro-union. I do not know if it was necessary for you to become unionized to get the job that you were seeking. In your opinion which I respect, unions are a good thing. I will have to be in opposition of your stance.
The Steinberg Corporation, which at its peak had more employees than the Quebec Government, was destroyed by unions. Their greed lead to one of the greatest travesties I have ever known.
I was a store manager for five years in this corporation and was very familiar with union/management negotiations.
I myself was not unionized but always carried a copy of the latest agreement.
Now you will have to explain to me the pure stupidity of the following (based on the last agreement I had):

- 37.5 hour week (average pay per hour $16.00)
- double overtime from 37.5 to 40 hours and triple beyond that
- 14 paid sick days based on hours worked, if not used added to Christmas bonus
- birthday paid and day off, if worked triple pay
- anniversary of first day started on job paid and day off, if worked triple pay
- uniforms supplied by company and dry cleaning paid by company
- double pay when taking inventory (taken twice a year)
- two week pay bonus at Christmas based on last twelve weeks worked, plus regular pay
- two week paid vacation after two years, three week paid vacation after five years and four weeks paid vacation after ten years (all based on last twelve weeks worked)
- full 100% medical coverage (deductible paid by company)

It is no wonder that the corporation went under.
Please justify this.
IMPHO I would not be knocking Toyota or Honda because they treat their employees fairly. Their employee losses are less than 1.5 %
My most sincere regards,
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:

When it was obvious to the union leaders that the Steinberg Corporation was going down the tubes they all booked flights to Les Tortugas and took bags and bags of union dues with them. I never found out if they were tracked down and brought to justice, but this begs the question: what happened to the dues when the Corporation was prosperous and years away from being raped to death by the unions?
-----Just something to think about.
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
120
63
50
Good Morning Walter and a Fine Day to You and Yours,

It is quite obvious that you are pro-union. I do not know if it was necessary for you to become unionized to get the job that you were seeking. In your opinion which I respect, unions are a good thing. I will have to be in opposition of your stance.
The Steinberg Corporation, which at its peak had more employees than the Quebec Government, was destroyed by unions. Their greed lead to one of the greatest travesties I have ever known.
I was a store manager for five years in this corporation and was very familiar with union/management negotiations.
I myself was not unionized but always carried a copy of the latest agreement.
Now you will have to explain to me the pure stupidity of the following (based on the last agreement I had):

- 37.5 hour week (average pay per hour $16.00)
- double overtime from 37.5 to 40 hours and triple beyond that
- 14 paid sick days based on hours worked, if not used added to Christmas bonus
- birthday paid and day off, if worked triple pay
- anniversary of first day started on job paid and day off, if worked triple pay
- uniforms supplied by company and dry cleaning paid by company
- double pay when taking inventory (taken twice a year)
- two week pay bonus at Christmas based on last twelve weeks worked, plus regular pay
- two week paid vacation after two years, three week paid vacation after five years and four weeks paid vacation after ten years (all based on last twelve weeks worked)
- full 100% medical coverage (deductible paid by company)

It is no wonder that the corporation went under.
Please justify this.
IMPHO I would not be knocking Toyota or Honda because they treat their employees fairly. Their employee losses are less than 1.5 %
My most sincere regards,
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:

From what I gathered from his post, he was being sarcastic. He says that the two non-union plants have expanded, which means they won't be closing up.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
From what I gathered from his post, he was being sarcastic. He says that the two non-union plants have expanded, which means they won't be closing up.
With all due respect I do not think he was, other things that have been written back this up.
Yet why have you not commented on this?
Enquiring minds want to know!
:canada::canada::canada:
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
120
63
50
With all due respect I do not think he was, other things that have been written back this up.
Yet why have you not commented on this?
Enquiring minds want to know!
:canada::canada::canada:

I think a union can be both a hinderance and a help. I have seen Unions with far too much power, and I have seen places run by dictators because they knew they could get away with it.

My opinion is this. If GM had no plan to stay in Oshawa then they should not have taken the money that the government offered them. They should also have not made out like they were going to stick around for the forseeable future. These plants know months and months in advance whether or not they are going to stick around.

GM is a piece of crap in this instance.

Well, you wanted my opinion...;-):lol::lol:
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
I think a union can be both a hinderance and a help. I have seen Unions with far too much power, and I have seen places run by dictators because they knew they could get away with it.

My opinion is this. If GM had no plan to stay in Oshawa then they should not have taken the money that the government offered them. They should also have not made out like they were going to stick around for the forseeable future. These plants know months and months in advance whether or not they are going to stick around.

GM is a piece of crap in this instance.

Well, you wanted my opinion...;-):lol::lol:
And I thank you for it. Have a good one!
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:
 

Starscream

Electoral Member
May 23, 2008
201
2
18
Somewhere, someplace
Hey scratch. Why in the bloody hell would the Steinberg Corporation accept that contract proposal. It's f**king stupid and completely one sided. No company in their right mind would accept that.

If workers need to organize inorder to get a fair wage, benefits, and working conditions, then I'm all for it. But that is just damn greedy on the workers part.

A high school acquaintance of mine worked at the Honda truck plant in Alliston, On. he got hired on a one year contract. When your employment contract is up, you are reviewed and if you did well they would keep on as permanent full time or offer you another one year contract. He stayed for two years and Im not sure if they didn't offer him another contract or he left after his second year. I forget what the details were, last I saw him was a few years ago.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
Hey scratch. Why in the bloody hell would the Steinberg Corporation accept that contract proposal. It's f**king stupid and completely one sided. No company in their right mind would accept that.

If workers need to organize inorder to get a fair wage, benefits, and working conditions, then I'm all for it. But that is just damn greedy on the workers part.

A high school acquaintance of mine worked at the Honda truck plant in Alliston, On. he got hired on a one year contract. When your employment contract is up, you are reviewed and if you did well they would keep on as permanent full time or offer you another one year contract. He stayed for two years and Im not sure if they didn't offer him another contract or he left after his second year. I forget what the details were, last I saw him was a few years ago.

Well your question is valid. Steinberg faced a massive walkout which would have meant an immense loss of revenue. Sam Steinberg would have tossed the union if he had been alive. His son in law and daughter were really at the mercy of the unions and acquiesced. They did this because they wanted to expand across Canada and had committed themselves to land and product.
This is not the only horror story concerning unions and the companies that they have destroyed.
In my case I had been head hunted and was able to return to my previous job. Many others were not so lucky.
I appreciate your interest in this because in the next 18-24 months the automobile industry is going to take a tremendous hit making the GM decision pale by comparison.
A good morning and fine day to you.
Regards,
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:
 

Starscream

Electoral Member
May 23, 2008
201
2
18
Somewhere, someplace
Yeah I am interested in this 'cause I've been working for unionized companies all my life. I currently have two jobs, both of which are unionized. Now i don't believe that all unions destroy the companies they deal with. However, I can't beleive that quite a few unions fully support whatever ridiculous demands the workers want, and that they fully defend the lazy assed workers that should've been fired long ago.

I've been on strike twice and both times those have lead to no major improvement. The second strike I was in was completely f**cked up. Read on.

I talked to many of my co-workers the day before we were scheduled to strike. From the conversations I had, I knew that we didn't have alot of support of the workers. There was a last ditch negotiation meeting before we striked the next day. Our bargaining commitee called a meeting the day we were going on strike. I arrived there before my co-workers did. They said that the new changes weren't enough to bring it to a vote and that if a vote was called it wouldn't of made a difference. I told them that we couldn't strike, cause we don't have the support we need, the picket line will be weak because not many people will be there. I told them that I think we made a mistake in rejecting the last proposal and that we should re-vote on it. What came next completely shocked and sickened me. They got very angry with me and were one word away from calling me an outright traitor. The rest of my co-workers were arriving and its obvious that my union leaders and negotiation commitee told them what I said because my co-workers were approaching me asking me why I said that. The meeting started and it was announced that the last ditch negotiations went nowhere. One person asked what those "so called minor changes" were and the negotiation commitee didn't say what the changes were. The question was asked again and still the commitee never devulged the details, and that calling a re-vote is too late and out of the question.

Anywho, the strike came I was a picket captain. Not even half the workers came out to picket at all. Those that did show up were showing up late and several quite picketing alltogether. I was scheduled to have at least ten people on my picket shifts, an average of 5 showed up, 7 showed up on a good day. I had two entrances to maintain picket lines and hardly ever had the manpower for it. Several picketers were going to camp during the weekends, it was a bloody vacation to them. Good thing the strike lasted only two weeks 'cause I was very pissed at my co-workers and union. We voted to accept a contract that was less thanwhat the last ditch negotiation (ie: the so called minor changes my union called it) offer was. Everything I told them before we striked came true. Yet I'm the one who's a "traitor".

That's RWDSU support for ya. And their slogan: "Fighting today for a better tomorrow."
Here's my slogan: F*CK YOU! :angry3:
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
Yeah I am interested in this 'cause I've been working for unionized companies all my life. I currently have two jobs, both of which are unionized. Now i don't believe that all unions destroy the companies they deal with. However, I can't beleive that quite a few unions fully support whatever ridiculous demands the workers want, and that they fully defend the lazy assed workers that should've been fired long ago.

I've been on strike twice and both times those have lead to no major improvement. The second strike I was in was completely f**cked up. Read on.

I talked to many of my co-workers the day before we were scheduled to strike. From the conversations I had, I knew that we didn't have alot of support of the workers. There was a last ditch negotiation meeting before we striked the next day. Our bargaining commitee called a meeting the day we were going on strike. I arrived there before my co-workers did. They said that the new changes weren't enough to bring it to a vote and that if a vote was called it wouldn't of made a difference. I told them that we couldn't strike, cause we don't have the support we need, the picket line will be weak because not many people will be there. I told them that I think we made a mistake in rejecting the last proposal and that we should re-vote on it. What came next completely shocked and sickened me. They got very angry with me and were one word away from calling me an outright traitor. The rest of my co-workers were arriving and its obvious that my union leaders and negotiation commitee told them what I said because my co-workers were approaching me asking me why I said that. The meeting started and it was announced that the last ditch negotiations went nowhere. One person asked what those "so called minor changes" were and the negotiation commitee didn't say what the changes were. The question was asked again and still the commitee never devulged the details, and that calling a re-vote is too late and out of the question.

Anywho, the strike came I was a picket captain. Not even half the workers came out to picket at all. Those that did show up were showing up late and several quite picketing alltogether. I was scheduled to have at least ten people on my picket shifts, an average of 5 showed up, 7 showed up on a good day. I had two entrances to maintain picket lines and hardly ever had the manpower for it. Several picketers were going to camp during the weekends, it was a bloody vacation to them. Good thing the strike lasted only two weeks 'cause I was very pissed at my co-workers and union. We voted to accept a contract that was less thanwhat the last ditch negotiation (ie: the so called minor changes my union called it) offer was. Everything I told them before we striked came true. Yet I'm the one who's a "traitor".

That's RWDSU support for ya. And their slogan: "Fighting today for a better tomorrow."
Here's my slogan: F*CK YOU! :angry3:

You know `Star` you will make out just fine here. Your stories are clear and to the point. You express yourself very well. Ergo a good addition to Can Con.
I will have to differ with you on negotiations though. The union rep in my store told me that the employees were never asked about demands and besides all felt that `that they would only strike if forced to`. Forced by whom, the high muckie-mucks of the union that represented them.
To her knowledge and mine all demands made upon the company came from them, NOT THE WORKERS.
Bottom line more dues to line their pockets with.

Nice talking to you. GTG (got to go) time for bed. Just cannot take the heat during the day. Currently my monitor is telling me that it is 24C but feels like 28C.

Catch you on the flip side.
Regards,
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
I think a union can be both a hinderance and a help. I have seen Unions with far too much power, and I have seen places run by dictators because they knew they could get away with it.

My opinion is this. If GM had no plan to stay in Oshawa then they should not have taken the money that the government offered them. They should also have not made out like they were going to stick around for the forseeable future. These plants know months and months in advance whether or not they are going to stick around.

GM is a piece of crap in this instance.

Well, you wanted my opinion...;-):lol::lol:

GM is not moving from Oshawa, they are only closing one of their plants. If I am not mistaken, it will be retooled later for a hybrid vehicle.