Murders in Toronto

[Jersay]

Police have vowed to work around the clock to bring to justice those behind Creba's "despicable" killing, the result of a Boxing Day shootout that officials say brought the growing plague of gun violence to the front door of every Toronto resident.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n123104A.xml

Now, I think the Creba's murder is horrible, and a young girl lost her life, over some stupid incident involving two different groups of people who had met 'accidently' at that area, resulting in a gun battle.

However, I would like to point out, only 18 out of 52 gun-homicides have been solved this year, meaning a ton of murderers are walking the streets. Shouldn't the police work around the clock to solve all of these murders before some other innocent person has been killed.

What do you guys think?

 

[iamcanadian]

Nothing needs to be done about guns. All types of crime needs to dealt with and the best way is offering a rewards.

Let their family, neigbours, coworkers, friends and even own children, or brothers and sisters snitch on them for say a $100,000 reward. Make the amount high enough that it's an offer they can't refuse. Keep raising the amount until someone is caught.

This will net 10 criminals for each $1.0 Million dollars. i.e. 20,000 criminals off the streets with the $2.0 Billion dollar Gun Registry money alone. There won't be any criminals left to worry about and we can reduce our police force by half and save a ton more Billions.

 

[Colpy]

Yeah.

Turns out the guy arrested in Toronto was released from prison on Dec. 3 after serving 30 days on an armed robbery charge.

It also turns out his Ruger 9mm was stolen. Damn it.

Now, take a guess what will get the most attention.

Edited to say:

This individual also has had 12 charges against him dropped over the last two years.

 

[Roy]

I have to say I think our beloved Toronto are kinda being "drama queens". To be fair yea there has been a rise in shootings this year, but look at in the overall yearly context.

1. Toronto is still the safest city of its size in North America
2. Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg and most other Canadaian cities are much more violent.
3. Total homicides this year are well below their peak in 1991
4. Although there have been more gun homicides (percentage wise) the actualy homicide number really isen't that off from the last few years.

...think about it, if Edmonton had the same population as Toronto it would definately have closer to 200 rather than Toronto's current 70 some homicides.

...yea it is a tragedy when you look at it on an individual basis, like with the young girl who was shot....but look at the bigger picture. Toronto gets all the media attention, what about Edmonton whos homicide rate has soared, and Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg and the rest of Canada.

 

[iamcanadian]

I just heard ad on a Toronto Radio Station that the City of Toronto Crimestoppers is offering a $500 dollar reward for each gun found from anonymous tips left on a phone line.

 

[Jersay]

The point I was trying to make was, that the police are trying so hard on this case to solve it because of its tragic circumstances, what about the other 30+ homicides this year that they have not solved and murderers run the streets. What are they going to do about them?

And violence in Toronto is spreading to the communities around it, that are apart of the GTA. Just last year, I think in Oshawa there was around 8 murders, so if you include the whole GTA, would crime and homicide go up I wonder?

 

[S-Ranger]

...
However, I would like to point out, only 18 out of 52 gun-homicides have been solved this year, meaning a ton of murderers are walking the streets. Shouldn't the police work around the clock to solve all of these murders before some other innocent person has been killed.

What do you guys think?

I think that we should ban murder. If only murder could be banned (perhaps set up some sort of buildings with cages in them to remove those who murder from society even; and then supervise them, don't let them have their full rights with some sort of system that might be called "parole" or the like) then no one would ever murder anyone again, with anything.

Personally, if I had the choice of being tortured to death for weeks on end for no apparent reason, or taking a bullet to the head and having no clue what even hit me; I'd pick the latter.

But with a ban on murder, no one would ever have to pick either, or anything in between.

We all know that bans work (just look at the "war on drugs" and how well that's worked out; and we should ban terrorism as well and many things) so just ban murder and the problem is solved, whether it's murder by being shoved over a balcony (ban balconies), or by drowning (ban all liquids, lakes/rivers, swimming pools, bathtubs and such, but the ban on liquids period would cover all of it), and what about the 12 year-old who died on Boxing Day for being in a vehicle? Ban vehicles too.

I'd like to know where the money is going to come from to enforce "tougher sentences" given that Toronto City Hall had to give up on marijuna (make a profit, ticket it) because it was taking up far too much time in our courts, which left people who were innocent in Toronto detention centers that have 9 people in rooms (sort of cells) designed for 4 and 12 people in rooms/cells designed for 6 -- 15 years ago.

The "Ontario" and confederate feds promised to chip in (uh huh) for a new Toronto Superjail, 10 years ago or so, never did, the municipality of Toronto is plundered of its municipal taxes right down to residential property taxes and even municipal fines by the "Ontario" feds and both the "Ontario" and confederate feds dump their own responsiblities on the municipality of Toronto, out of municipal taxes, directly funding both alleged "governments" so what the hell are we supposed to do with "tougher sentences"?

Open up Saskitoba/Maniwatchewan as a penile colony, get conviced offenders to repair the highways, railroads and build more infrastructure, because we sure as hell have nowhere to put them.

It's why they walk; not because of "lenient judges" but because there is nowhre to hold anyone and it takes years to get them through the courts around here due to tax plundering by the "Ontario" and confederate feds.

GIVE US OUR OWN FAIR SHARE OF OUR OWN REVENUES BACK AND WE'LL LOOK AFTER IT. Short of that, everyone and everything can f-off with their oblivious blabber.

 

[karra]

The point I was trying to make was, that the police are trying so hard on this case to solve it because of its tragic circumstances, what about the other 30+ homicides this year that they have not solved and murderers run the streets. What are they going to do about them?

You must understand that once an area becomes a crime scene there are lists kept in laptops along with a well though out attack - fresh eveidence becomes a priority and sensationalism will put it front and center - they only have three days to fold up a murder, afterthat, chance of a successful arrest, trial and conviction begin to dwindle - all the way to cold case - it's well orchastrated and managed. . .


Unless of course the murder committed his heinous act in Durham Region - now there, the killer gets a free pass. . . .

 

[poligeek]

Re: RE: Murders in Toronto

I have to say I think our beloved Toronto are kinda being "drama queens". To be fair yea there has been a rise in shootings this year, but look at in the overall yearly context.

1. Toronto is still the safest city of its size in North America
2. Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg and most other Canadaian cities are much more violent.
3. Total homicides this year are well below their peak in 1991
4. Although there have been more gun homicides (percentage wise) the actualy homicide number really isen't that off from the last few years.

...think about it, if Edmonton had the same population as Toronto it would definately have closer to 200 rather than Toronto's current 70 some homicides.

...yea it is a tragedy when you look at it on an individual basis, like with the young girl who was shot....but look at the bigger picture. Toronto gets all the media attention, what about Edmonton whos homicide rate has soared, and Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg and the rest of Canada.

While Toronto has the full capacity to be "drama queens" don't think the irony is lost on most of us.

The reality is that up until the shooting of Jane Creba most of the attention paid to gun violence in Toronto got less than a 30 second soundbite on the nightly news.

Sure there were plenty of communities calling for help, but as has become evident lately the leaders had promised to set up meetings to discuss the situation "later" (I in May 2005 they were promised meetings in March 2006).

Toronto didn't become a full blown drama queen until the Jane Creba shooting.

Which is a tragedy, yes.

But, at the same time it's also a slap in the face to the 51 other people who died and their families because government and police couldn't move fast enough when a 15-year-old-white-girl was shot, but seem to have dragged their feet on the outstanding black murder cases.

 

[Jersay]

Exactly what I am talking about Poligeek.

 

[Colpy]

Exactly what I am talking about Poligeek.

Well, now I'm going to get myself in trouble.

One thing that is not spoken about in this debate over gang murder in TO is the "scumball factor". In other words, most (although certainly not all) of those killed in gangland wars are scum, not exactly a loss to society.

Take, for instance, the first guy shot to death in 2006. Just out of prison, he is driving around in his status symbol vehicle, paid for how?

The guy was sent to prison for shooting another man in the head.

In 2003.

Explain to me please, how you go to prioson in 2003 for shooting a man in the head, and less than 3 years later you are on the street.

Sorry, folks, I don't feel real bad about this. One scumball off the street. If they catch the guy that shot him, two scumballs off the street.

Perhaps the answer is to offer shooting lessons for free, so these guys aren't so apt to hit innocent bystanders.

 

[Jersay]

I was talking about the homicides where innocent people were killed in them Colpy.

Some people you feel do deserve to get it, like the guy you mention, however the criminal justice system should be looked at in that case.

 

[iamcanadian]

Most of the murders were between gangmembers. Only when bystanders get hit by stray bullets does it raise public attention.

A bit of hypocricy in this because when intentional murder happens its a higher form of crime; but when a bystander gets hit by accident it is not intentional homicide.

The only way to stop this ana other crimes is having Rewards for blowing whistles on criminals and potential criminals before they happen.

Rewards can stop a crime before it happens, rather that current methods of letting crime happen and then try to catch people afterwards once the irreversible harm is done.

But then, there is no money spent offering rewards and waiting for people to call in with information. It's too easy and would even save too much money; and god forbid, its not a good thing for government to this and then be forced to reduce taxes and lay off public employees.

Everything boils down to government spending. If they can't figure out how to waste money with the plan they won't try it; even if everyone agrees it will work.

 

[Jersay]

Everything boils down to government spending. If it does not waste money they won't even try it.

Good point.

What I think what should happen is that the gun amnesty in Toronto should take place all across the country for a week maybe even a month.

And not only would you offer an amnesty, you may offer a small fee for turning in a weapon maybe somewhere between 1/10 of what a gun would cost to the person who turns in the weapon.

I don't know what do you guys think?

 

[FiveParadox]

Excellent Suggestion

I think that doing so would be an excellent idea; it would be a good idea for "questionable" citizens, as well, because so often someone can become "trapped" in a circle of crime; commit something minor, commit something more serious to cover for yourself, and further and further, until you enter the "big leagues," so to speak.

The opportunity to hand in those weapons with amnesty, to "opt out" of crime in some cases, would be an excellent idea, in my opinion.

 

[iamcanadian]

Based on public reaction over the shootings we should be giving gangmembers shooting lessons and better guns so they don't miss each other and hit bystanders.

Take away their guns and they may start blowing each other up with something less accurate and then even more bystanders will get hurt.

Gun confiscation and removal from the public is not any kind of answer, even if it was possible, which it is obvioulsy not. It will do nothing but make maters worse as it always has every time they tried.

 

[Texas1]

Gang banger buys Glock 19 for $450.00; some crazy politician offers him $40.00 for his gun. This tool he uses will prevent him from making 2k a week but he thinks it's the right thing to do.


Yeah i don't think so.

 

[Jersay]

Then what do you propose to do. It is very easy to criticize and very hard to come up with a sensible plan. Not some have cocked idea.

Another option which is more dangerous is to have informants or undercover cops get deep into these gangs and take them all down over and over again.

Then you cut off the source of what is influencing young people from getting into gangs.

And then with the arrest of these gangs (leaders), provide social programs and after school activities that would be helpful for children and young adults.

 

[iamcanadian]

Crime prevention rewards:

Someone thinks their neighbour is making a drug deal tonight; they call the police. If it turn out and the cops seize two million in cash, drugs and guns from the stake out, the whisstle blower gets 10%, of the loot, i.e., $200,000 cash reward.

Bingo, no more neighbours making drug deals and it costs the public nothing and everyone looks out for everyone.

Only the criminals need to be affraid.

 

[Jersay]

That is eavesdropping and spying on your neighbors man. Kind of like the time periods where you thought your mother or father was a communist so you report them to the authorities.

Or you thought your neighbor was a Jew or another person that was being hunted by the German SS so you report them to the authorities.