Chara's Hit on Pacioretty


Avro
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#1

YouTube - NHL 3811 - Zdeno Chara KILLS Max Pacioretty into the stanchion HD



Concussion and fratured vertebrae.

Intent....given the history of these two players this season I'd side with yes.

Like Price said after the game: Montreal goalie Carey Price said that no matter how fast the game moves, every player knows -- or should know -- where they are on the ice.

My guess yet another wrist slap for the NHL and another player goes down indefinately.

Anyone remember a kid named Sid?.....still not skating.

This game is getting pathetic.
 
talloola
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#2
chara is a huge man, and after watching the hit many times, I see that he was just rubbing him off
along the boards, and it was the glass partition that was the culprit.

the responsibility should be with the NHL to pack all of those partitions with something so that
they are softer, because it is amazing that this hasn't happened many times before, well it actually
has, but not with quite the impact of last night.
Those partitions are just serious injuries waiting to happen, and last night it did.

being hit on the boards at a high speed by chara is not a small matter, the
speed they were going is the problem, and apparantly the hit was late, but many hits after the
fact, like that one, are not even called as interference, that call is so different all over the
league, depending on what referee the game has.

I don't think chara should be suspended at all, he did a legal body check, with no intent to injure,
and if they wanted to call interference fine, but that was it in my opinion.

There is no way he was intentionally trying to ram him into the glass partition.
 
Avro
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#3
I disagree.

He clearly shoved him into the bar and gave him no room to avoid it.

They got into a scrap earlier this year and their is some bad blood their.

Someone is going to be killed and the careers of Savard, Crosby and Max are in jeopardy.
 
talloola
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#4
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

I disagree.

He clearly shoved him into the bar and gave him no room to avoid it.

They got into a scrap earlier this year and their is some bad blood their.

Someone is going to be killed and the careers of Savard, Crosby and Max are in jeopardy.


_____________________

if he intentionally shoved him into the glass partition, then he was actually trying to kill him,
as he would know that could happen, but at the speed they are going, (and I don't care what happened
to them previously, things happen to players previously all the time over the years.)the impact is
huge, and chara would not have been trying to kill him, chara is not a dirty player, doesn't have
previous incidents of dirty play, so 'no', I don't think he even saw the partition at that speed,
and i'm sure he had other things on his mind, other than trying to injure or kill him, he is just
competing at a high level, and at high speed, and the game is rough, and stuff happens.

The partitions are hazardous and could cause a death.
 
karrie
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+1
#5
He gives him that extra shove to the head at the end of the check. Looks pretty intentional.
 
Avro
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#6
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

_____________________

if he intentionally shoved him into the glass partition, then he was actually trying to kill him,
as he would know that could happen, but at the speed they are going, (and I don't care what happened
to them previously, things happen to players previously all the time over the years.)the impact is
huge, and chara would not have been trying to kill him, chara is not a dirty player, doesn't have
previous incidents of dirty play, so 'no', I don't think he even saw the partition at that speed,
and i'm sure he had other things on his mind, other than trying to injure or kill him, he is just
competing at a high level, and at high speed, and the game is rough, and stuff happens.

The partitions are hazardous and could cause a death.

Sorry, don't buy it.

A veteran hockey player knows where he is on the ice.

The league will agree with you though.

I'm just glad he's not dead, but I'm getting a greater sense now that it is only a matter of time before it happens right in front of or eyes.
 
TenPenny
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#7
I honestly don't think that hitting him into the stanchion was intentional; looking at the overhead shot, he finished the check off with a shove, the same as they all do. Chara didn't do anything different than 99% of the checks out there. Still, he is responsible for what happened, and I think it's only right that he be out unitl Pachioretti returns. And if that's forever, so be it.

Have tickets to the Montreal-Boston game in Boston in a couple of weeks, that's going to be an interesting one...
 
talloola
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#8
I think he was given 5 games suspension, so I guess the league saw some intent, I will watch
the hit again, don't know how, at the speed they were going, he could have shoved his head
at the last second, he body checked him at a very high speed, didn't elbow him, and was gone
at a high rate of speed, and of course the hit was intentional, bodychecking is legal in the
game.

I will still support chara, because after seeing this many times, I don't see the intent to
injure, chara is 6'9", and not just tall, very very big.

From time to time ugly incidents will happen in hockey because of the speed, body contact and the
size of the players, it can't be stopped, unless they take body contact out of the game all together.

Of course the montreal supporters will be against chara, and feel he was trying to injure, but I
don't see it that way.

Just let someone push you into the boards at the slow speed one skates around the rink, and feel how
hard it is, then bang your head on the edge of the glass at the same speed, and feel how much
it hurts, then magnify it by 'whatever' needs to match the size of them, and the speed they are
going, and it is more like being hit by a car.

I just watched it again, no elbowing, a clean body check, but right where the glass
partition is, if that had not been there, the check would have been harmless but
hard, the penalty is interference, because he made the hit 'late' after the puck
was gone.
 
Mowich
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#9
Whether it was intentional or not, the fact is that yet another promising player is side-lined with a severe concussion. How many more players is the league willing to lose before they start giving them some real protection? Good idea of talloola's about the padding but the NHL could go even further by putting some real teeth behind their rules and do something, for pete's sake, about bringing some consistency to the refereeing - from what I have seen this season, it appears to be a whim of the particular referee whether to call a penalty or not. How is a player to know whether they will be penalized for any given hit when the outcome is so up in the air?

The latest I hear about Sidney is that they are still evaluating him but it doesn't look good for him to be back this season.
 
Avro
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#10
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I honestly don't think that hitting him into the stanchion was intentional; looking at the overhead shot, he finished the check off with a shove, the same as they all do. Chara didn't do anything different than 99% of the checks out there. Still, he is responsible for what happened, and I think it's only right that he be out unitl Pachioretti returns. And if that's forever, so be it.

Have tickets to the Montreal-Boston game in Boston in a couple of weeks, that's going to be an interesting one...

He will get 1 or 2 games.

Stanchion....thanks, I was trying to remember what that thing was called.

I wouldn't go as far as suspending him indefinately but 5 to 10 would be nice and a reveiw of the rules and safety of the rinks.

Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

I think he was given 5 games suspension, so I guess the league saw some intent, I will watch
the hit again, don't know how, at the speed they were going, he could have shoved his head
at the last second, he body checked him at a very high speed, didn't elbow him, and was gone
at a high rate of speed, and of course the hit was intentional, bodychecking is legal in the
game.

I will still support chara, because after seeing this many times, I don't see the intent to
injure, chara is 6'9", and not just tall, very very big.

From time to time ugly incidents will happen in hockey because of the speed, body contact and the
size of the players, it can't be stopped, unless they take body contact out of the game all together.

Of course the montreal supporters will be against chara, and feel he was trying to injure, but I
don't see it that way.

Just let someone push you into the boards at the slow speed one skates around the rink, and feel how
hard it is, then bang your head on the edge of the glass at the same speed, and feel how much
it hurts, then magnify it by 'whatever' needs to match the size of them, and the speed they are
going, and it is more like being hit by a car.

I just watched it again, no elbowing, a clean body check, but right where the glass
partition is, if that had not been there, the check would have been harmless but
hard, the penalty is interference, because he made the hit 'late' after the puck
was gone.

What you are saying is Chara didn't know where he was hitting Max....I can't agree with that.

He knew exactly where he was.

If it's 5, I'll be happy with that.
 
talloola
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#11
I don't like the idea of suspending a player the length of time the injured player is out injured.

Some players are easily injured with a light hit, some seriously injured with a legal hit, etc.

The other team should not have control over the suspended player, as to how long he stays out.
That is a league decision, and should have a time for suspension to end.

Not sure why chara got 5 games, probably because the injury is serious, and also so that they
do not get too much uprising from the montreal side, I don't think he deserves 5 games.
If he hadn't hit him late, the hit would not have happened at all, and the glass partition
would not have come into play at all, but as I said before, the refereeing is so bad, that
hits that are late, are 'sometimes' called, and 'sometimes' not, so players really don't know
where the cut off time is, we talk about that all the time.
 
darkbeaver
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#12
Hockey is a blood sport. I used to like Gordie Elbows Howe. Hockey injuries can be serious. I wonder how many Canadians have their dreams and bodies crushed by crosschecks in any given Canadian hockey season?
 
#juan
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#13
I think Charo did this intentionally. He meant to rub the guy off on the partition. That was about as close as I've seen
to somebody getting killed in the game. It would not have surprised me if the Montreal player died. It is not as if
Charo didn't know about the damned partition..
 
wulfie68
#14
Chara did give the guy an extra shot at the end, as hundreds of players have in hundreds of other occasions. It was worth a penalty for boarding or interference. To me, thats temper. The kid was getting under Chara's skin a bit and he gave the extra shot back, which is what guys are hoping for: they WANT to draw that undisciplined call. For us to say that there was intent to injure, implies a cold bloodedness in Chara that has not been in evidence to this point in his career. Yes, he's big and physical but not noted for giving a lot of cheap shots. I would say "no" to supplemental discipline but thats me.

I think the villain that is going undiscussed is one that the much villainized Don Cherry has brought up: the design of stanchions and boards in the NHL. Guys have been hurt by them before. Guys will be hurt by them again. What will it take to get some structural engineering types to look at some way to make them safer for the guys on the ice and those off it?
 
karrie
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#15
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

What will it take to get some structural engineering types to look at some way to make them safer for the guys on the ice and those off it?

I'm a housewife and I can explain to them for free, no engineers involved, how to build the stanchions properly.
 
Avro
#16
From the Boston Globe....

Quote:

Let us begin with the simple fact that Zdeno Chara had every intention of running Max Pacioretty into, as Carey Price called it "the turnbuckle." What Chara did not expect was for Pacioretty to clip the glass the way he did, his head struck at such a frightening angle that Pacioretty was carried away on a stretcher.

Full column --
 
Cannuck
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#17
Should have been a 2 minute interference penalty and nothing more. I do understand the whining from Habs fans....they're Habs fans...it's what they do best.
 
#juan
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#18
The simple thing here is that we are responsible for our own actions. There is no doubt in my mind that
Chara intentionally ran Max's head against the stanchion. When Max hit the verticle structural member
Chara's left hand was in the region of the back of Max's head.

Someone suggested that Chara should be out as long as Max is.......That sounds completely reasonable to me.
 
Cannuck
Avatar
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

There is no doubt in my mind that Chara intentionally ran Max's head against the stanchion.

Then you are either incredibly arrogant or incredibly stupid. How in the hell could you have no doubt about his intentions. Are you the Amazing Kreskin? Did Chara call you last night and confirm his intentions to you?
 
#juan
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#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Then you are either incredibly arrogant or incredibly stupid. How in the hell could you have no doubt about his intentions. Are you the Amazing Kreskin? Did Chara call you last night and confirm his intentions to you?

Without getting into a screaming match with you, I have my reasons,
not the least of which is that Chara took his left hand off his stick and
used it to drive Pacioretty into the stanchion. Chara looked back at
Pacioretty lying on the ice and skated away.
Last edited by #juan; Mar 9th, 2011 at 06:01 PM..
 
PoliticalNick
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#21
I have played hockey all my life including 2 years with the old Tri-City Americans. I don't believe there are too many players out there that would ever believe that much intention to cause harm. Given Chara's record over his carreer I have to be on his side here. There have been no prior instances of intent to injure or even any 'dirty' hits that I can recall.

What actually really pisses me off is the 'new age' attitude toward a sport that is built on speed and heavy physical contact. I'm sorry for all you fans of Sid and all that but if you are going to pursue a carreer in a violent sport you have to assume some risk. I hate all this bull**** about not hitting a guy in open ice just because he wants to look at the puck instead of the players defending against him. I am certaianly not advocating a free-for-all of boarding or hitting from behind but really, handing out major penalties and suspensions for what were clean hits up until a year ago is bastardizing the game I love. And let's be real about it, the owners do not care about the player, they care about protecting their investment and revenue streams.

Pretty soon the only equipment the players will need is a stick and skates with toe-picks (for those of you that know what these are) and it will be a penalty to skate within 3 feeet of another player.
 
Avro
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#22
Chara got zero games for potentially ending the career of Max Pacioretty.

The rest of the NHL goons just got the green light.
 
talloola
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#23
Sorry for the incorrect earlier information, as I heard an announcement on one of the radio stations
about the five game suspension, which really confused me because I didn't see anything but a borderline
interference penalty, SO, i'm happy to know now, that there is no suspension, there was no intent to
injure him, as I saw it, it was a pure hockey hit, although a tad late, but many of them are a tad
late, and some that are not a tad are also given penalties, hence very confusing to the players, as to
'just' how much time a player has after the puck goes by that they are allowed to finish their check.
People can talk all they want about 'bad' blood between those two teams, but the
hit has to be judged on it's own merit, without anything else, especially emotionally
charged opinions, as it was a legal body check, and nothing more.
There was no elbow, no hit to the head by chara, not a high hit at all, just a good
rub out along the boards, which is done all the time.

If that hit had happened anywhere else in the rink, it would not have caused any problem at all, but might
still have been an interference call. It was the stanchion that caused the problem, and the NHL must
come forward and take responsibility for all of those stanchions in any of the buildings that have them
as that one is, and make sure they are changed. I'm surprised this hasn't happened before, but as in
most incidents, (just as it was when they changed the goals after mark howe was gashed by the steel),
something awful has to happen before anything is done about it.

To say that chara intentionally hit him that hard into the stancion on purpose must give their heads a
shake, because that is saying something very very serious about another person, as 'if' he did hit him
into that stanchion intentionally, he would have been a completely different player than chara, and
also a different kind of person indeed. He is a clean player, a very very big player, and has had no
previous suspensions and has 'no' reputation of being mean or nasty at all.

Most people have no clue how big they are, or how fast they are going, and that includes the montreal
player who was going very fast as well, and when the hit happened, (and it was a rub out along the
boards type of hit), not a hit where he came from another direction, they were both going in the same
direction.

The NHL must be very careful here, because if pacioretty does not heal from this incident, and becomes
permanately affected from this hit, they could be liable because of this stancion, and it is clear to
me that such a structure should not be open to the players being able to run into it, either from a
body check or any other means, it seems it is there to protect those on the other side, hockey
analysts watching the play etc.

Yes, I agree Karrie, I could design a stanchion that would not be dangerous too, it doesn't take
a brain surgeon, but maybe a brain surgeon will talk to them about it, because a serious concussion
has happened now, because of it.
 
PoliticalNick
Avatar
#24
As I said before, I played for years, including semi-pro, and it is quite often not possible to notice where the glass stops/starts around the benches. It is a very fast game at the level I played and even faster at the top.

I have thought many times the worst thing that ever happened to hockey was adding the glass. Back when there was only boards you never saw the high sticks you see today and it was very very rare for someone to take a puck in the face. The game was played below waist level.
 
Avro
Avatar
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

Sorry for the incorrect earlier information, as I heard an announcement on one of the radio stations
about the five game suspension, which really confused me because I didn't see anything but a borderline
interference penalty, SO, i'm happy to know now, that there is no suspension, there was no intent to
injure him, as I saw it, it was a pure hockey hit, although a tad late, but many of them are a tad
late, and some that are not a tad are also given penalties, hence very confusing to the players, as to
'just' how much time a player has after the puck goes by that they are allowed to finish their check.
People can talk all they want about 'bad' blood between those two teams, but the
hit has to be judged on it's own merit, without anything else, especially emotionally
charged opinions, as it was a legal body check, and nothing more.
There was no elbow, no hit to the head by chara, not a high hit at all, just a good
rub out along the boards, which is done all the time.

If that hit had happened anywhere else in the rink, it would not have caused any problem at all, but might
still have been an interference call. It was the stanchion that caused the problem, and the NHL must
come forward and take responsibility for all of those stanchions in any of the buildings that have them
as that one is, and make sure they are changed. I'm surprised this hasn't happened before, but as in
most incidents, (just as it was when they changed the goals after mark howe was gashed by the steel),
something awful has to happen before anything is done about it.

To say that chara intentionally hit him that hard into the stancion on purpose must give their heads a
shake, because that is saying something very very serious about another person, as 'if' he did hit him
into that stanchion intentionally, he would have been a completely different player than chara, and
also a different kind of person indeed. He is a clean player, a very very big player, and has had no
previous suspensions and has 'no' reputation of being mean or nasty at all.

Most people have no clue how big they are, or how fast they are going, and that includes the montreal
player who was going very fast as well, and when the hit happened, (and it was a rub out along the
boards type of hit), not a hit where he came from another direction, they were both going in the same
direction.

The NHL must be very careful here, because if pacioretty does not heal from this incident, and becomes
permanately affected from this hit, they could be liable because of this stancion, and it is clear to
me that such a structure should not be open to the players being able to run into it, either from a
body check or any other means, it seems it is there to protect those on the other side, hockey
analysts watching the play etc.

Yes, I agree Karrie, I could design a stanchion that would not be dangerous too, it doesn't take
a brain surgeon, but maybe a brain surgeon will talk to them about it, because a serious concussion
has happened now, because of it.

You can write the longest post in history defending that shaved gorilla but it dosen't fly with me.

I've heard some turds blaming Max for this....seriously crazy.

As I have said, their is no way Chara did not know where he was as he was clearly out of position at center ice as the puck went into the Bruins zone. He angled in on Max and shoved his head into the stancion, an avoidable play. It's not as if the ice surfaces are different, they are all the same....it's not like playing at Fenway and then Rogers center where the differences are clear.

These two have a history this year, Max gave Chara a little shove after a game winning goal and in Slovakia that is akin to raping a mans goat, Chara went after him like a crazed animal.

Chara knew what he was doing and will have to live with it, as will Max.

Hope he gets better, but to me, it does not look good for him.

I wonder what the call would have been if it were Campells son laid out like that?
 
PoliticalNick
Avatar
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

As I have said, their is no way Chara did not know where he was as he was clearly out of position at center ice as the puck went into the Bruins zone. He angled in on Max and shoved his head into the stancion, an avoidable play. It's not as if the ice surfaces are different, they are all the same....it's not like playing at Fenway and then Rogers center where the differences are clear.

Well as someone who has played for 37 years (damn I'm getting old) let me tell you...

There are many differences in all the rinks, sure the dimensions of the ice surface are the same, but some rinks have no glass on the boards between benches and some do. It starts and stops at different places too, some have 4 feet after the gate, some it is 6 inches and everywhere in between. Seamless glass, semi-seamless, full stanchion. Home ice advantage is not just about fans you know. There are so many differences that you don't notice watching on TV.

I'm just glad it wasn't the seamless stuff....that s h i t would have split him wide open too!
 
Cannuck
Avatar
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

I wonder what the call would have been if it were Campells son laid out like that?

The same decision would have been made. Unlike you, the NHL looks at these types of things logically instead of emotionally.

I've seen this same play 100's of times. Chara was most likely looking at the player and not the boards. I never looked at the boards while I was delivering hits. (You'll notice I said most likely as I'm not the Amazing Kreskin)
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
Avatar
+1
#28
Man, it was a really ugly thing to watch. I hope he recovers.

In other news relating:

Quote:

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff is going to have his hands full in the next little while, but he took time out of bashing the Conservatives Wednesday to send a warning to the NHL. He said that if the league doesn’t take action to protect its players from concussions, Parliament might have to intervene.

It is now quite apparent that Michael Ignatieff is a highly educated moron.
 
captain morgan
Avatar
+2
#29
I'm a little curious if Ignatieff will be reading the riot act to the sports of boxing and MMA in the near future as well.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I'm a little curious if Ignatieff will be reading the riot act to the sports of boxing and MMA in the near future as well.

No doubt this would strike terror into their hearts.
 
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