#1Nov 5th, 2010
Head Hunting in the NHL
#2
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 5th, 2010
From the angles I saw in that video, Thornton's hit didn't look to be overly vicious(and I am not a Thornton fanboy either). However, since it was a hit to the head, 2 games seems about fair.
Why Carcillo didn't receive a suspension for his hit is beyond me. It's not like this is his first incident! He is a dirty player and I am not overly fond of his play.
Why Carcillo didn't receive a suspension for his hit is beyond me. It's not like this is his first incident! He is a dirty player and I am not overly fond of his play.
#3
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 5th, 2010
There is a saying that goes back decades, you restrict the game by taking the fights out
and the stick and dirty checks take their place. Hockey is not for the faint at heart and
if you don't let the teams play, and call everything the chippy stuff starts.
I remember when I did play by play in the early seventies in the Junior leagues, it was no
different than today except they wear helmets. All this suspensions and taking the fights
out and so on is to make it satisfying for the people who believe there was a time when
the sport was a clean civilized game of passing and shooting. There never was such a
time, it is all part of a collective imagination. I remember my dear late mother, said she
didn't like hockey. When I was a kid all you had to do was yell Fight and this dear peaceful
little Catholic lady would run the length of the house not to miss it.
All this stuff is part of histories folklore. Some remember the Flyer's when they were called
the Broad street Bullies, they were also Stanley Cup Champions. I don't like these cheap
shots to the head, but the game has become a nightmare to watch, it has all these forced
rules, that cause the game to become less about the game and more about enforcement.
It has also become boring as hell. There are to many teams with a too shallow talent pool
and hockey is suffering because of it.
and the stick and dirty checks take their place. Hockey is not for the faint at heart and
if you don't let the teams play, and call everything the chippy stuff starts.
I remember when I did play by play in the early seventies in the Junior leagues, it was no
different than today except they wear helmets. All this suspensions and taking the fights
out and so on is to make it satisfying for the people who believe there was a time when
the sport was a clean civilized game of passing and shooting. There never was such a
time, it is all part of a collective imagination. I remember my dear late mother, said she
didn't like hockey. When I was a kid all you had to do was yell Fight and this dear peaceful
little Catholic lady would run the length of the house not to miss it.
All this stuff is part of histories folklore. Some remember the Flyer's when they were called
the Broad street Bullies, they were also Stanley Cup Champions. I don't like these cheap
shots to the head, but the game has become a nightmare to watch, it has all these forced
rules, that cause the game to become less about the game and more about enforcement.
It has also become boring as hell. There are to many teams with a too shallow talent pool
and hockey is suffering because of it.
#4
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010
The talent pool in hockey today is far higher than ever before, better skaters, bigger players, and
much better minor league training from pee wee age.
The equipment is far better, thus the feeling of being safer, but the players are faster and bigger,
BUT the ice surface is not bigger, so this game has become more dangerous because of the size and
speed of the players.
There are no more goons left in the game, everyone can play now, and those non skating goons who
use to play cannot make teams any more.
The NHL is slowly addressing the injuries being caused by this upgrade in skating and size and high
speed of the game.
The players now are being suspended for blind hits and head shots. Some of these hits are from players
who have intent to injure, but the majority of them are caused from high speed and big bodies, and
the NHL do seem to be addressing these situations.
The game is now faster and better than ever before, and yes, some changes have to be made, but it looks
like that is happening.
What is interesting to me, is that 5 different trained people can look at videos of many of these hits
and come away with five different opinions of the hit, and how it happened.
Some of them are obvious, many of them are not, some of the injured players have turned toward the board
at the very last second before being hit, some have ducked down, hence their heads receive the hit, and
some are blind sided, but (not many). So when reviewing all of these hits it is not clear cut as many
would like to say. The game is a game of hitting, legally, so as some of these hits become illegal they
will reduce in number.
Some say the ice surface should be made bigger, but after an interview with markus naslund, for one, he
said that he loves the smaller ice, compared to the one her grew up playing on, as the game is much more
exciting and quicker, and if one watches the games on the european ice surface, it eventually becomes
boring, (compared to ours), as the players are spread out much more, lots of time to pass and skate, and
that is not the north american game at all.
I see the NHL going thru an eye opening time right now, with a few more changes to come so that the injuries
will decrease.
much better minor league training from pee wee age.
The equipment is far better, thus the feeling of being safer, but the players are faster and bigger,
BUT the ice surface is not bigger, so this game has become more dangerous because of the size and
speed of the players.
There are no more goons left in the game, everyone can play now, and those non skating goons who
use to play cannot make teams any more.
The NHL is slowly addressing the injuries being caused by this upgrade in skating and size and high
speed of the game.
The players now are being suspended for blind hits and head shots. Some of these hits are from players
who have intent to injure, but the majority of them are caused from high speed and big bodies, and
the NHL do seem to be addressing these situations.
The game is now faster and better than ever before, and yes, some changes have to be made, but it looks
like that is happening.
What is interesting to me, is that 5 different trained people can look at videos of many of these hits
and come away with five different opinions of the hit, and how it happened.
Some of them are obvious, many of them are not, some of the injured players have turned toward the board
at the very last second before being hit, some have ducked down, hence their heads receive the hit, and
some are blind sided, but (not many). So when reviewing all of these hits it is not clear cut as many
would like to say. The game is a game of hitting, legally, so as some of these hits become illegal they
will reduce in number.
Some say the ice surface should be made bigger, but after an interview with markus naslund, for one, he
said that he loves the smaller ice, compared to the one her grew up playing on, as the game is much more
exciting and quicker, and if one watches the games on the european ice surface, it eventually becomes
boring, (compared to ours), as the players are spread out much more, lots of time to pass and skate, and
that is not the north american game at all.
I see the NHL going thru an eye opening time right now, with a few more changes to come so that the injuries
will decrease.
#5
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010
I agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.
#6
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010
That is where we disagree. the talent pool is spread way to thin. Hockey today is boring
I rarely watch it anymore. I do watch more junior as they at least have ambition. I started
turning to other things in the mid nineties, as the modern version was of no interest to me
anymore. I am still a Montreal fan, but even that team is not what it used to be.
I would like to see have as many teams as there is.
I rarely watch it anymore. I do watch more junior as they at least have ambition. I started
turning to other things in the mid nineties, as the modern version was of no interest to me
anymore. I am still a Montreal fan, but even that team is not what it used to be.
I would like to see have as many teams as there is.
#8
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
. I remember my dear late mother, said she
didn't like hockey. When I was a kid all you had to do was yell Fight and this dear peaceful
little Catholic lady would run the length of the house not to miss it.
Ain't that the truth... I can say the very same about my mother.
There is a big divide between the players' roles in today's league when compared to the 70's, 80's etc.. The style of play was well defined - the checking line generally did it's job in settling down the teams and there was always an enforcer on the scoring lines to take care of the team's top player(s). Now, any mid-size, mid-talent player has free reign to target anyone with limited, if any ramifications.
Ever since the league has cracked-down on fighting, there have been far more career-threatening injuries, especially "accidental" knee-on-knee.. When the inevitable does happen, you get the Bertuzzi-Moore incidents.
#9
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin
I disagree. Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy and the like are still Hall of Fame talents of a calibre that come along once every couple years. They could play no matter what era you put them in. I do think the number of talented players has increased, as well as the skill and knowledge level of the coaches, but the talent is also spread over twice as many teams as when Bobby Orr first played in the NHL and 5 times as many as when Rocket Richard played.I agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.
Back to the head shots, I think part of this is a new awareness, accentuated by the NHL (and other minor leagues) focusing on them and trying to come to grips with the injury potential. When Cam Neely and Wendel Clark hit like this, we all thought they were good hits for the most part, unless a guy got an elbow involved. The league has a long way to go, both in identifying legitimate hits and bad ones. I saw an example in a Penguins-Islanders game a few weeks ago: Kris Letang got a 5 minute major and game misconduct for a clean hit, that looked bad from the angle the ref was at. The ensuing powerplay let the Isles back in the game (they scored 1 pp and again as it expired) and allowed them to take it to OT, when they didn't deserve that break (and I'm an Islander fan!).
#10
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68
They'd be lucky to play in the AHL in modern times, unless they stepped up their conditioning. Players in the NHL nowadays train year round, the physical fitness is light years beyond what it was 20 years ago.I disagree. Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy and the like are still Hall of Fame talents of a calibre that come along once every couple years.
There's no more showing up for training camp 20 pounds overweight from drinking beer all summer - current players hit the gym every day, year long. Their skating is vastly superior to what it was. Even in the offseason, most of the players are working hard.
In order to compete in the current game, the superstars of yore would have to be in far better shape than what they were back in their heyday. Sure, they had superior skills, that's what made them stars. But without the physical conditioning, they wouldn't be able to make it today.
#11
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
the modern version came after the nineties, after the lockout, rules changed, talent rose considerably,That is where we disagree. the talent pool is spread way to thin. Hockey today is boring
I rarely watch it anymore. I do watch more junior as they at least have ambition. I started
turning to other things in the mid nineties, as the modern version was of no interest to me
anymore. I am still a Montreal fan, but even that team is not what it used to be.
I would like to see have as many teams as there is.
as 'speed' and 'great skating' was the flavour of the day, and still is.
the game isn't boring anymore at all, that was during the clutch and grab era, too much standing
around holding people on the boards, slowing them down with the stick in front of them, can't do
that any more, and also the red line was taken out, which also created much more 'flow'.
if one is bored at a hockey game these days, it is unusual, because almost all of the feedback from
'real' hockey lovers these days is the opposite.
#12
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin
Bobby Orr had some talent no doubt but his big thing was his end to end rush with the puck. He was hardly the best team player. All teams of that time had a big gun. Chicago had Bobby Hull. Montreal had Lafleur etc. The best teams of today would walk all over the best teams of Orr's dayI agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.
#13
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
your absolutely correct, even the lower teams today are better.Bobby Orr had some talent no doubt but his big thing was his end to end rush with the puck. He was hardly the best team player. All teams of that time had a big gun. Chicago had Bobby Hull. Montreal had Lafleur etc. The best teams of today would walk all over the best teams of Orr's day
skating is better, shooting is harder, passing more efficient, coaching is better, hence defense much
better, more strategy, diet and excercise is a must nowadays, not beer drinking as before, after games,
players are bigger and more talented, special teams have their own coach, goalies are much better.
(gillis has a special diet program for all players), scouting is better, development of players in
the lower leagues much better, and junior program much better, skates and all equipment much better.
#14
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010
The proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.
Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.
Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.
#15
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
you could count on one hand the number of 'goons' left in todays game, a few leftovers from the lateThe proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.
Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.
nineties, they will soon all be gone.
some of the major penalties taken recently and during the season are committed by high end players,
and some of the fights being fought by top players.
some of the olympic games were outstanding hockey, 'but not all', and the outstanding games are played
by the 'cream of the crop', just makes sense, one starts picking top players from teams, and of course
you will have top rate hockey, but canada could have done that 'twice' and had two teams just as good
as each other.
fighting is left in the game as a 'vent', and also for more money at the gate by bettman, the bottom
line is profits, but the hockey is 'top notch', nothing better in the world anywhere.
canada's junior program has also become much better in recent years, more emphasis put on skating and
speed and goaltending and coaching at that level, and preparation. the top juniors almost all end up
in the NHL, so those saying they like the junior game better, are not thinking of all the junior players
who are now NHL ers, whom they said the same thing about a few years ago, or even last year.
It's cheaper to go to a game, but the game isn't as good, the juniors could never defeat the NHL ers, by
a long shot, and 'they' will be the first to admit that.
All of the juniors who start in the NHL say how fast the play is, how big the players are, how good the
defencemen are, and last but definitely not least, the goaltending is better.
#16
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010
I am bored silly they turned it into a scoring fest to please the American viewers I
guess. I have watched the game since I was five, and later in life I did play by play
hockey in the BC Junior league. I guess we will never agree on one era over the
other, but today I just don't have the interest in NHL anymore.
guess. I have watched the game since I was five, and later in life I did play by play
hockey in the BC Junior league. I guess we will never agree on one era over the
other, but today I just don't have the interest in NHL anymore.
#17
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
don't really know 'what' you are looking for in the NHL, obviously you are not up to dateI am bored silly they turned it into a scoring fest to please the American viewers I
guess. I have watched the game since I was five, and later in life I did play by play
hockey in the BC Junior league. I guess we will never agree on one era over the
other, but today I just don't have the interest in NHL anymore.
with NHL hockey at all.
you quit watching long time ago, and have kept same opinion, while the game has changed big time.
#18
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 6th, 2010
In the 70's there was very little organized defense. The worst teams today would put double digits on the board playing against those teams.
+1
#19 Top Rated PostRe: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 7th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
Taking out fighting will lessen the on-ice product. It is not just the "goons" that are employing suspension-worthy hits. A lot of the star-caliber players are also quilty of it. If you take fighting totally out of the equation, then the players have no fear of retribution for their questionable hits. Obviously the suspensions are not doing anything to dissuade them at all(especially with Campbell in charge of punishment).The proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.
Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.
Take away the Instigator rule, and then maybe you'll see less of these dirty (or borderline) hits.
#20
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 7th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshiv
Bullsh!tTaking out fighting will lessen the on-ice product. It is not just the "goons" that are employing suspension-worthy hits. A lot of the star-caliber players are also quilty of it. If you take fighting totally out of the equation, then the players have no fear of retribution for their questionable hits. Obviously the suspensions are not doing anything to dissuade them at all(especially with Campbell in charge of punishment).
Take away the Instigator rule, and then maybe you'll see less of these dirty (or borderline) hits.
#21
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 7th, 2010
I don't mind the sincere fights, those that instantly break out from two players who actually get
mad together at what they are doing together, I do understand the high intensity of the game, and
don't expect players to 'always' be calm and collected about everything that goes on out there.
I hate the fights that are fought after an agreement before puck drops, then they drop the gloves
right after the whistle.
Actually the one crosby has last week was like that, crosby was angry with 'this' player at what he
did to his player, who was still recovering from a hand injury, so he challenged the player before
the whistle, but the ones I'm referring to, are two players who just want to be noticed by their
coaches, they don't get much ice time, and want to make an impact while on the ice.
The improvements they are making and continuing to make, have nothing to do with fighting, but have
to do with dangerous type hits, and I am pleased at the effort NHL is putting forth. Nothing stops
instantly, but as the suspensions become more severe, those hits will be cut down as far as they can
possibly go, as the player doesn't want to miss games, but they don't care about paying out money. The more suspensions they receive, the longer they will be out.
I don't believe they should take out the instigator rule, that will bring back the'fighters', who are not
really excellent players, and we don't need to go back to that, we don't want those players back in the
game.
We have one very good fighter on the canucks, ripien, but he also is a very good skater, and a decent fourth
line player, so he can contribute to the success of the team, without fighting at all, and he doesn't
fight often, once in a while.
mad together at what they are doing together, I do understand the high intensity of the game, and
don't expect players to 'always' be calm and collected about everything that goes on out there.
I hate the fights that are fought after an agreement before puck drops, then they drop the gloves
right after the whistle.
Actually the one crosby has last week was like that, crosby was angry with 'this' player at what he
did to his player, who was still recovering from a hand injury, so he challenged the player before
the whistle, but the ones I'm referring to, are two players who just want to be noticed by their
coaches, they don't get much ice time, and want to make an impact while on the ice.
The improvements they are making and continuing to make, have nothing to do with fighting, but have
to do with dangerous type hits, and I am pleased at the effort NHL is putting forth. Nothing stops
instantly, but as the suspensions become more severe, those hits will be cut down as far as they can
possibly go, as the player doesn't want to miss games, but they don't care about paying out money. The more suspensions they receive, the longer they will be out.
I don't believe they should take out the instigator rule, that will bring back the'fighters', who are not
really excellent players, and we don't need to go back to that, we don't want those players back in the
game.
We have one very good fighter on the canucks, ripien, but he also is a very good skater, and a decent fourth
line player, so he can contribute to the success of the team, without fighting at all, and he doesn't
fight often, once in a while.
Last edited by talloola; Nov 7th, 2010 at 11:49 PM..
#22
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 7th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
Do you care to elaborate on this? What do you disagree with?Bullsh!t
#23
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 7th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
There's no comparison there, you're talking apples and oranges. If the NHL season consisted of a round robin followed by single game elimination rounds you'd see a big diiference....Olympic hockey would look slow and boring in comparison.The proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.
Quote:
As will the fan base. You can tell how much the fans hate fighting whenever one breaks out, eh. And calling games tight is what they did the last few years and the games became unwatchable, nothing but a special teams contest in a penalty fest. They finally loosened up a bit last year and this year seems much better. Lesson learned.Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin
Well yeah, his knee was already buggered up by '73. Let's talk '69! I agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.
Sure the technology of physical fitness has come a long way, but why wouldn't someone like Bobby Orr benefit from that if he was time machined up? He's still the greatest player that ever lived.
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
Yikes, never heard that before. Those are just what make the highlite reels. He was very much a team player. If you were in scoring position Bobby would put it on your tape.Bobby Orr had some talent no doubt but his big thing was his end to end rush with the puck. He was hardly the best team player.
#24
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 7th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Just the Facts
If bobby orr was a kid today, and had the training and coaching and equipment that todays players haveThere's no comparison there, you're talking apples and oranges. If the NHL season consisted of a round robin followed by single game elimination rounds you'd see a big diiference....Olympic hockey would look slow and boring in comparison.
As will the fan base. You can tell how much the fans hate fighting whenever one breaks out, eh. And calling games tight is what they did the last few years and the games became unwatchable, nothing but a special teams contest in a penalty fest. They finally loosened up a bit last year and this year seems much better. Lesson learned.
Well yeah, his knee was already buggered up by '73. Let's talk '69!
Sure the technology of physical fitness has come a long way, but why wouldn't someone like Bobby Orr benefit from that if he was time machined up? He's still the greatest player that ever lived.
he would make the NHL, he didn't have those things, he was the best of 'his' time, 'not' this time,
everything has become better, and bobby orr will be the first to say it.
#25
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 8th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
Yup, no argument here. Given your scenario he'd more than make the NHL though. Talent is talent and given the benefit of modern training techniques he'd be the best today too.If bobby orr was a kid today, and had the training and coaching and equipment that todays players have
he would make the NHL, he didn't have those things, he was the best of 'his' time, 'not' this time,
everything has become better, and bobby orr will be the first to say it.
#26
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 8th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Just the Facts
The cream that rose to the top back then was much less in numbers, there are quite a few great playersYup, no argument here. Given your scenario he'd more than make the NHL though. Talent is talent and given the benefit of modern training techniques he'd be the best today too.
in the game today, and he would have been among them.
today he would not have been a 'big' man in the game today, and the defencemen in the game today are
extremely big, 'not all', but most, and talented.
He would not be able to skate through everyone in todays game as he could then, the defencemen are so
much bigger and more talented than they were back then, it is much more difficult. The defence can be
taught, and have been taught so efficiently that the great forwards cannot stick handle through them,
as some did back then, the team game is much more prevalent today, they have to use each other, as there
are no heros who can go end to end, it is a rarity, only happens occasionally.
The technique of the game today is deep and detailed, there is a coach for everything, and the chalk board
is a serious part of the game.
I believe he would have been a very good defencemen today, and would be in the NHL, but I don't think he
would come near to being the stand out he was back then.
Even Wayne Gretzky, when interviewed exclaims how big and talented the players are today, and admits he
would be intimidated by them, but he is being modest, as he would be in the NHL too, if he was a young
guy right now, as his vision on the ice was second to none, his passing, and shooting were pin point
accurate, and he wasn't a great skater, but had a talent that no one can teach.
#27
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 9th, 2010
I disagree. I'll turn it around on ya.... send Sydney Crosby back to 1970 and have him play through what Orr had to put up with on a regular basis. Syd would pick up his ball and go home without a doubt. Look at all the whining out of Syd his rookie year. Compare that to the physical abuse Orr played with before the Gretzky era of the bodyguard and "don't touch him, he's a star" mentality. Bobby was a player, not a diva.
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
It was rare then, too. That's what singles Bobby out as great. He didn't become a legend by being ordinary.it is a rarity, only happens occasionally.
#28
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 9th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Just the Facts
he would never be a legend in todays hockey, faster, bigger, more talented, better goalies, better coaching,I disagree. I'll turn it around on ya.... send Sydney Crosby back to 1970 and have him play through what Orr had to put up with on a regular basis. Syd would pick up his ball and go home without a doubt. Look at all the whining out of Syd his rookie year. Compare that to the physical abuse Orr played with before the Gretzky era of the bodyguard and "don't touch him, he's a star" mentality. Bobby was a player, not a diva.
It was rare then, too. That's what singles Bobby out as great. He didn't become a legend by being ordinary.
that is just the way it goes, as does all sports, and many other facets of life, we have to accept
that, and not pretend the good ole days were better, it just doesn't work that way.
he would be a very good defenceman, just as many others are in the league today. the players get hit
hard now, from players who are coming at them much faster than any of them did back then., and they are
much bigger, the hits are harder, but there is no cluthing and holding, thus the game flows faster, not disrupted by
all the stoppage of play because of hanging on.
if he wound up to make his end to end rushes as he did back then, he would fail. Duncan Keith on Chicago
is a top defenceman, excellent talent in everything he does, but he doesn't skate thru the team, he has
to be very very fast at receiving the puck and delivering it immediately, no time to travel very far, but
watch him for a while, he is amazing nontheless, and lidstrom on detroit as well, who is a very precise
palyer, passes beautifully, a defenceman anyone would want on their team.
the hockey back then was the 'dead' puck era, and called that for good reason, right
up to the lock out, then it changed, and changed for the better.
sydney crosby would have been a star back then, or now, any of the players who
are stars now, would have been super stars back then.
crosby has put up with a lot, if you want to ignore his talent and just consider
him a whiner, then you a missing the point.
they use to call gretzky a whiner too, he got tired of people grabbing and holding
him, which they would not be able to do today, but today the game is much faster,
with better skating.
Just put on one of those old games and watch it from start to finish, they become
yawners, I saw them all then, just as I do now.
It's fun to watch highlights of super stars, lefleur was my favourite player, but
he would not be today, what he was then, if he played now, the same as he played
then, none of them would, including bobby orr, whom I watched all the time.
Last edited by talloola; Nov 9th, 2010 at 09:48 PM..
#29
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 9th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
lol true but we're not talking about the good old days, we're talking about Bobby Orr. he would never be a legend in todays hockey, faster, bigger, more talented, better goalies, better coaching,
that is just the way it goes, as does all sports, and many other facets of life, we have to accept
that, and not pretend the good ole days were better, it just doesn't work that way.
He could handle himself then, he could handle himself now. You won't find a highlite reel like this one for Gretzky or Crosby:
httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvq3AhKeaturerelated
lol compare that to this display of Getzky bravado:
YouTube - Gretzky pissed at Norton 31994
( as an aside check out the quote in the clip near the end - "that being Wayne Gretzky, Fraser just let's it go" - lol Leaf fans are too familiar with THAT aspect of Fraser. )
I trust the Leafs have signed the rights to this guy:
YouTube - Next Gretzky
#30
Re: Head Hunting in the NHL
Nov 10th, 2010
[QUOTE=Just the Facts;1347062]lol true but we're not talking about the good old days, we're talking about Bobby Orr.
bobby orr is part of the good ole days, that's just the facts, can't change that.
----------------------------------------------------
My opinion doesn't change, I am talking about the whole league of NHL players, which has changed big time
from then till now, no comparison, doesn't matter what little details one shows, it is the 'whole' I
am referring to, and that includes the likes of bobby orr and others of his level back then, compared
to the players of today. The personalities of players have no bearing on these facts, and the liking
of one player compared to another have no bearing, and what one players says or doesn't say, has no
bearing.
I understand you 'love' bobby orr, that is great, I liked him as a player too, he was great, let it
stay there, where it belongs, it doesn't belong in the present.
The whole league is much better today, starting with the coaches, trainers, doctors, equipment, and
most of all the players.
We can't have bobby orr be born again, if we could, then he could grow up with all of the advantages
the players of today had growing up, then he would be in the NHL, and he would be a good defenseman,
but never with the ability to do what he did when he played back then, it would be impossible.
The same goes for guy lefleur, my favourite back then, and many others, they lived then, not now.
Some years down the road, all of todays players will be retired and middle aged, and some just downright
old, and those who watched them 'now', will be remembering 'back when', and it will be interesting to
see how different the game is then, compared to now, not sure just how much faster they can get, maybe
the league is nearing the limit of human abilities, 'but, maybe not', we'll see, well, I hope i'm
here in 20 years or so, then I can remember too, just like I remember all of the 'bobby orr' generation,
and it is black and white between then and now.
All of the sports have their yesteryear heros, and they are respected and remembered, but so many records
they hold have been broken many times over.
I don't think it is possible for players to break a few of gretzky's records, but never say never.
bobby orr is part of the good ole days, that's just the facts, can't change that.
----------------------------------------------------
My opinion doesn't change, I am talking about the whole league of NHL players, which has changed big time
from then till now, no comparison, doesn't matter what little details one shows, it is the 'whole' I
am referring to, and that includes the likes of bobby orr and others of his level back then, compared
to the players of today. The personalities of players have no bearing on these facts, and the liking
of one player compared to another have no bearing, and what one players says or doesn't say, has no
bearing.
I understand you 'love' bobby orr, that is great, I liked him as a player too, he was great, let it
stay there, where it belongs, it doesn't belong in the present.
The whole league is much better today, starting with the coaches, trainers, doctors, equipment, and
most of all the players.
We can't have bobby orr be born again, if we could, then he could grow up with all of the advantages
the players of today had growing up, then he would be in the NHL, and he would be a good defenseman,
but never with the ability to do what he did when he played back then, it would be impossible.
The same goes for guy lefleur, my favourite back then, and many others, they lived then, not now.
Some years down the road, all of todays players will be retired and middle aged, and some just downright
old, and those who watched them 'now', will be remembering 'back when', and it will be interesting to
see how different the game is then, compared to now, not sure just how much faster they can get, maybe
the league is nearing the limit of human abilities, 'but, maybe not', we'll see, well, I hope i'm
here in 20 years or so, then I can remember too, just like I remember all of the 'bobby orr' generation,
and it is black and white between then and now.
All of the sports have their yesteryear heros, and they are respected and remembered, but so many records
they hold have been broken many times over.
I don't think it is possible for players to break a few of gretzky's records, but never say never.
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