Head Hunting in the NHL

[Kreskin]

Last night (Nov 4) had to have set a record for the most cheapshots in one night. Just about every game could've had suspensions.

YouTube - Joe Thornton hit on Perron - NHL Fox Sports Midwest Feed

YouTube - Carcillo Hit

 

[shadowshiv]

From the angles I saw in that video, Thornton's hit didn't look to be overly vicious(and I am not a Thornton fanboy either). However, since it was a hit to the head, 2 games seems about fair.

Why Carcillo didn't receive a suspension for his hit is beyond me. It's not like this is his first incident! He is a dirty player and I am not overly fond of his play.

 

[damngrumpy]

There is a saying that goes back decades, you restrict the game by taking the fights out
and the stick and dirty checks take their place. Hockey is not for the faint at heart and
if you don't let the teams play, and call everything the chippy stuff starts.
I remember when I did play by play in the early seventies in the Junior leagues, it was no
different than today except they wear helmets. All this suspensions and taking the fights
out and so on is to make it satisfying for the people who believe there was a time when
the sport was a clean civilized game of passing and shooting. There never was such a
time, it is all part of a collective imagination. I remember my dear late mother, said she
didn't like hockey. When I was a kid all you had to do was yell Fight and this dear peaceful
little Catholic lady would run the length of the house not to miss it.
All this stuff is part of histories folklore. Some remember the Flyer's when they were called
the Broad street Bullies, they were also Stanley Cup Champions. I don't like these cheap
shots to the head, but the game has become a nightmare to watch, it has all these forced
rules, that cause the game to become less about the game and more about enforcement.
It has also become boring as hell. There are to many teams with a too shallow talent pool
and hockey is suffering because of it.

 

[talloola]

The talent pool in hockey today is far higher than ever before, better skaters, bigger players, and
much better minor league training from pee wee age.
The equipment is far better, thus the feeling of being safer, but the players are faster and bigger,
BUT the ice surface is not bigger, so this game has become more dangerous because of the size and
speed of the players.

There are no more goons left in the game, everyone can play now, and those non skating goons who
use to play cannot make teams any more.
The NHL is slowly addressing the injuries being caused by this upgrade in skating and size and high
speed of the game.

The players now are being suspended for blind hits and head shots. Some of these hits are from players
who have intent to injure, but the majority of them are caused from high speed and big bodies, and
the NHL do seem to be addressing these situations.

The game is now faster and better than ever before, and yes, some changes have to be made, but it looks
like that is happening.

What is interesting to me, is that 5 different trained people can look at videos of many of these hits
and come away with five different opinions of the hit, and how it happened.

Some of them are obvious, many of them are not, some of the injured players have turned toward the board
at the very last second before being hit, some have ducked down, hence their heads receive the hit, and
some are blind sided, but (not many). So when reviewing all of these hits it is not clear cut as many
would like to say. The game is a game of hitting, legally, so as some of these hits become illegal they
will reduce in number.

Some say the ice surface should be made bigger, but after an interview with markus naslund, for one, he
said that he loves the smaller ice, compared to the one her grew up playing on, as the game is much more
exciting and quicker, and if one watches the games on the european ice surface, it eventually becomes
boring, (compared to ours), as the players are spread out much more, lots of time to pass and skate, and
that is not the north american game at all.

I see the NHL going thru an eye opening time right now, with a few more changes to come so that the injuries
will decrease.

 

[Kreskin]

I agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.

 

[damngrumpy]

That is where we disagree. the talent pool is spread way to thin. Hockey today is boring
I rarely watch it anymore. I do watch more junior as they at least have ambition. I started
turning to other things in the mid nineties, as the modern version was of no interest to me
anymore. I am still a Montreal fan, but even that team is not what it used to be.
I would like to see have as many teams as there is.

 

[Spade]

It's the ethos in the League, typified by the brawlers!

 

[captain morgan]

. I remember my dear late mother, said she
didn't like hockey. When I was a kid all you had to do was yell Fight and this dear peaceful
little Catholic lady would run the length of the house not to miss it.

Ain't that the truth... I can say the very same about my mother.

There is a big divide between the players' roles in today's league when compared to the 70's, 80's etc.. The style of play was well defined - the checking line generally did it's job in settling down the teams and there was always an enforcer on the scoring lines to take care of the team's top player(s). Now, any mid-size, mid-talent player has free reign to target anyone with limited, if any ramifications.

Ever since the league has cracked-down on fighting, there have been far more career-threatening injuries, especially "accidental" knee-on-knee.. When the inevitable does happen, you get the Bertuzzi-Moore incidents.

 

[wulfie68]

I agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.

I disagree. Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy and the like are still Hall of Fame talents of a calibre that come along once every couple years. They could play no matter what era you put them in. I do think the number of talented players has increased, as well as the skill and knowledge level of the coaches, but the talent is also spread over twice as many teams as when Bobby Orr first played in the NHL and 5 times as many as when Rocket Richard played.

Back to the head shots, I think part of this is a new awareness, accentuated by the NHL (and other minor leagues) focusing on them and trying to come to grips with the injury potential. When Cam Neely and Wendel Clark hit like this, we all thought they were good hits for the most part, unless a guy got an elbow involved. The league has a long way to go, both in identifying legitimate hits and bad ones. I saw an example in a Penguins-Islanders game a few weeks ago: Kris Letang got a 5 minute major and game misconduct for a clean hit, that looked bad from the angle the ref was at. The ensuing powerplay let the Isles back in the game (they scored 1 pp and again as it expired) and allowed them to take it to OT, when they didn't deserve that break (and I'm an Islander fan!).

 

[TenPenny]

I disagree. Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy and the like are still Hall of Fame talents of a calibre that come along once every couple years.

They'd be lucky to play in the AHL in modern times, unless they stepped up their conditioning. Players in the NHL nowadays train year round, the physical fitness is light years beyond what it was 20 years ago.

There's no more showing up for training camp 20 pounds overweight from drinking beer all summer - current players hit the gym every day, year long. Their skating is vastly superior to what it was. Even in the offseason, most of the players are working hard.

In order to compete in the current game, the superstars of yore would have to be in far better shape than what they were back in their heyday. Sure, they had superior skills, that's what made them stars. But without the physical conditioning, they wouldn't be able to make it today.

 

[talloola]

That is where we disagree. the talent pool is spread way to thin. Hockey today is boring
I rarely watch it anymore. I do watch more junior as they at least have ambition. I started
turning to other things in the mid nineties, as the modern version was of no interest to me
anymore. I am still a Montreal fan, but even that team is not what it used to be.
I would like to see have as many teams as there is.

the modern version came after the nineties, after the lockout, rules changed, talent rose considerably,
as 'speed' and 'great skating' was the flavour of the day, and still is.
the game isn't boring anymore at all, that was during the clutch and grab era, too much standing
around holding people on the boards, slowing them down with the stick in front of them, can't do
that any more, and also the red line was taken out, which also created much more 'flow'.
if one is bored at a hockey game these days, it is unusual, because almost all of the feedback from
'real' hockey lovers these days is the opposite.

 

[#juan]

I agree with a lot of what you said, except the talent pool. If Bobby Orr parachuted into this league in the exact same shape he was in in 1973 they'd put him into he minors. The talent level is light years ahead of any previous era.

Bobby Orr had some talent no doubt but his big thing was his end to end rush with the puck. He was hardly the best team player. All teams of that time had a big gun. Chicago had Bobby Hull. Montreal had Lafleur etc. The best teams of today would walk all over the best teams of Orr's day

 

[talloola]

Bobby Orr had some talent no doubt but his big thing was his end to end rush with the puck. He was hardly the best team player. All teams of that time had a big gun. Chicago had Bobby Hull. Montreal had Lafleur etc. The best teams of today would walk all over the best teams of Orr's day

your absolutely correct, even the lower teams today are better.

skating is better, shooting is harder, passing more efficient, coaching is better, hence defense much
better, more strategy, diet and excercise is a must nowadays, not beer drinking as before, after games,
players are bigger and more talented, special teams have their own coach, goalies are much better.
(gillis has a special diet program for all players), scouting is better, development of players in
the lower leagues much better, and junior program much better, skates and all equipment much better.

 

[bill barilko]

The proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.

Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.

 

[talloola]

The proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.

Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.

you could count on one hand the number of 'goons' left in todays game, a few leftovers from the late
nineties, they will soon all be gone.
some of the major penalties taken recently and during the season are committed by high end players,
and some of the fights being fought by top players.

some of the olympic games were outstanding hockey, 'but not all', and the outstanding games are played
by the 'cream of the crop', just makes sense, one starts picking top players from teams, and of course
you will have top rate hockey, but canada could have done that 'twice' and had two teams just as good
as each other.

fighting is left in the game as a 'vent', and also for more money at the gate by bettman, the bottom
line is profits, but the hockey is 'top notch', nothing better in the world anywhere.

canada's junior program has also become much better in recent years, more emphasis put on skating and
speed and goaltending and coaching at that level, and preparation. the top juniors almost all end up
in the NHL, so those saying they like the junior game better, are not thinking of all the junior players
who are now NHL ers, whom they said the same thing about a few years ago, or even last year.
It's cheaper to go to a game, but the game isn't as good, the juniors could never defeat the NHL ers, by
a long shot, and 'they' will be the first to admit that.
All of the juniors who start in the NHL say how fast the play is, how big the players are, how good the
defencemen are, and last but definitely not least, the goaltending is better.

 

[damngrumpy]

I am bored silly they turned it into a scoring fest to please the American viewers I
guess. I have watched the game since I was five, and later in life I did play by play
hockey in the BC Junior league. I guess we will never agree on one era over the
other, but today I just don't have the interest in NHL anymore.

 

[talloola]

I am bored silly they turned it into a scoring fest to please the American viewers I
guess. I have watched the game since I was five, and later in life I did play by play
hockey in the BC Junior league. I guess we will never agree on one era over the
other, but today I just don't have the interest in NHL anymore.

don't really know 'what' you are looking for in the NHL, obviously you are not up to date
with NHL hockey at all.
you quit watching long time ago, and have kept same opinion, while the game has changed big time.

 

[Kreskin]

In the 70's there was very little organized defense. The worst teams today would put double digits on the board playing against those teams.

 

[shadowshiv]

The proof is in the playing-Olympic hockey with NHL grade players is much faster and exciting than the product the NHL puts out now.

Take the fighting out of hockey/call the games tight and watch the goons wither and eventually the product will improve.

Taking out fighting will lessen the on-ice product. It is not just the "goons" that are employing suspension-worthy hits. A lot of the star-caliber players are also quilty of it. If you take fighting totally out of the equation, then the players have no fear of retribution for their questionable hits. Obviously the suspensions are not doing anything to dissuade them at all(especially with Campbell in charge of punishment).

Take away the Instigator rule, and then maybe you'll see less of these dirty (or borderline) hits.

 

[bill barilko]

Taking out fighting will lessen the on-ice product. It is not just the "goons" that are employing suspension-worthy hits. A lot of the star-caliber players are also quilty of it. If you take fighting totally out of the equation, then the players have no fear of retribution for their questionable hits. Obviously the suspensions are not doing anything to dissuade them at all(especially with Campbell in charge of punishment).

Take away the Instigator rule, and then maybe you'll see less of these dirty (or borderline) hits.

Bullsh!t