Headshots

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
Well, as most people who follow sports know, the debate over head injuries and concussions and the steps necessary to avoid them has escalated in the past couple years, with the rising number of diagnosed concussions. The topic was discussed at the NHL GM meetings with the latest incident of Matt Cooke on Marc Savard in Pittsburgh the other night, highlighting it.

NHL GMs have now agreed that headshots should be penalized. Here's a link to the TSN coverage of the story NHL GM's recommend that head shots be penalized and here is a quote of the statement the GMs made:

"A lateral, back pressure or blindside hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and or the principal point of contact is not permitted. A violation of the above will result in a minor or major penalty and shall be reviewed for possible supplemental discipline."

This is a subject, that as a hockey fan, is of great interest to me, but I am also of two minds on the matter. We've seen careers of players like Keith Primeau, Eric and Brett Lindros and others cut short by these types of injuries. The effects of them are largely unknown, but its beleived that the effects of these concussions are cumulative and in some cases more geometric than linear (the injury/recovery period from an additional concussion may be 3-10 times as severe as the initial one(s)). Some of my mixed feelings are echoed in this statement:

"We felt there is a degree of responsibility - moreso to the player receiving the hit - when a guy's coming straight at you. But it's that blindside hit that we find is so disturbing and it's tough to protect yourself in our game, with the speed," - NHL senior vice president of hockey operations Colin Campbell.


My concern is with the amount (or lack) of accountability placed on the puck carrier to do one of the first and most fundamental things that should be taught in minor hockey: keep your head up and protect yourself. When I think back to Eric Lindros' major incident, it was him dancing through the high slot with his head down and getting leveled by Scot Stevens with a textbook open ice hit. I saw Matt Cooke's hit on Savard the other night and from my perspective Cooke may have been a touch late (and the NHL didn't see anything violating the rules as they existed at that point), but again, Savard has his head down. Its the same with a lot of the "controversial" hits in the last couple years : guys have their heads down, admiring their shot or pass instead of being aware of whats going on around them.

I hate seeing the injuries. I hate thinking about some of the issues these guys may be facing later on in life from the effects of multiple head traumas but I am concerned that the NHL and the minor leagues are attacking a symptom rather than a cause here. I love the physical aspect of hockey: its a big part of the appeal to me as a fan and when I played.
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
The recent hit where savard got plowed was clearly cheap, savard had just took a shot from the blue line, he wasnt against the boards and cooke wasnt boarding him, cook raised his elbow and i will say he did it intentionally.....

He wasnt admiring his shot, he just took it and BANG

They are a part of the game, but only the meat heads think that way
 
Last edited:

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Cooke has never been a nice player, even when he was in Vancouver, but he was in motion towards Savard.. If you watch this replay at the very end ( Slow Mo ), you can see he makes no effort to stop his motion but as wulfie points out Savard has his head down, not paying attention..

YouTube - Matt Cooke knocks Marc Savard out

The league has review this and judged him not to be guilty of a cheap shot.. I think after review it is a close but fair call under present rules..

It will be interesting to see if and how the league deals with further similar hits.. I am sure we have not seen the end of these..
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
54
Oshawa
A rule is already in place to deal with this kind of garbage and the league looked the other way.

Hopefully the GM's have solved this problem.

I'd get fighting out as well....totally pointless.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Cooke's hit on savard was predatory and cheap, from a repeat offender, a 4th line player, to one of the top
players on the boston team.
Campbell's decision to do nothing was 'cowardly', and they
have set up a situation where the next game between boston
and pittsburg will have to be strictly monotored, as the
players will be looking for 'payback', and I don't blame
them. This hit was 3 times worse than the hit that Moore
put on Naslund, and remember that one?
Savard is a star player, and boston is on the bubble for
making the playoffs or not, and this could not only put
him out of the game for the rest of the season, but also
end boston's season before playoffs.

Campbell could have said, thats' it, no more, we are going
to set a precedent right now to stop this, and give cooke
a lenghthy suspension, which he deserves, but no, he drivelled
a bunch of nonsense, and the new ruling will not be implemented till next season. He didn't give a suspension to richards earlier in the season for
a similar hit, so he felt he couldn't give cooke a suspension because richards
didn't get one, come on campbell, you can do better than that.

It's amazing that, when Avery said in an interview, that his
girlfriend was a 'sloppy second', the NHL immediately made
up a new rule, and slapped him with a 6 game suspension,
which I agreed with at the time, but they can't do it this
time? Give me a break.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
There is a problem with the league when they give the referee the option of either a 2 minute or 5 minute penalty. I don't think they want to get rid of the ugliness. There was that one incident this week that they said there would be no suspension. I don't remember the player. That proves they aren't serious...
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
39
48
BC
I'm from the really old school...used to watch hockey when there were only 6 teams in the NHL! I grew up watching it with my Grandpa and Dad on Saturday night on an old flickering black & white TV on the prairies. It was great.

I played hockey for a while when I was really young. My pride and joy was the time I got a real Maple Leaf jersey for Christmas. At that time, I could name all the players in the league (only 6 teams!) and their numbers.

But, I eventually lost interest in it as the league expanded and when the goons began to appear. Nowadays I rarely watch it on TV, and one of the major reasons is the bashing that goes on. Don't get me wrong...I love violent, sh!t-kickin' movies and such, but for some reason I don't really care for it in hockey.

I am NOT criticizing anyone that enjoys that aspect of the game...I'm just saying that I don't really get any entertainment value out of it. If they get that new rule going on blindsiding, that would be a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

I'm just an old fart that longs for the days of Gordie Howe and much "cleaner" hockey, no head protection necessary. Yeah, I know it'll never happen but I can always reminisce...
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
I'm from the really old school...used to watch hockey when there were only 6 teams in the NHL! I grew up watching it with my Grandpa and Dad on Saturday night on an old flickering black & white TV on the prairies. It was great.

I played hockey for a while when I was really young. My pride and joy was the time I got a real Maple Leaf jersey for Christmas. At that time, I could name all the players in the league (only 6 teams!) and their numbers.

But, I eventually lost interest in it as the league expanded and when the goons began to appear. Nowadays I rarely watch it on TV, and one of the major reasons is the bashing that goes on. Don't get me wrong...I love violent, sh!t-kickin' movies and such, but for some reason I don't really care for it in hockey.

I am NOT criticizing anyone that enjoys that aspect of the game...I'm just saying that I don't really get any entertainment value out of it. If they get that new rule going on blindsiding, that would be a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

I'm just an old fart that longs for the days of Gordie Howe and much "cleaner" hockey, no head protection necessary. Yeah, I know it'll never happen but I can always reminisce...

Gordie Howe was called 'Mr. Elbows' for obvious reasons,
cleaned out many a foe with those elbows of his, not very
kind at all.
There are no goons left in the NHL, they are all gone,
those players could not play, and actually there is one,
Booguard who plays on Minnesota, he needs to be let go,
he can't play, seems like a stupid man, and hes' huge,
and just gets a few minutes of ice each game, and causes
trouble.
I remember the days of old, when the goons were all over
the place, most couldn't play the game very well at all,
and also couldn't skate well, a player won't make the
team at all in this day and age, if they can't skate well,
because the game is so fast now, and the players mostly
are much bigger, and very talented.
Matt Cooke is a 4th line player, but he can play the game,
and is a pretty good skater, but he's a coward, always
has been, even with the canucks, he's a repeat offender,
and needs to be dealt with. I know that pittsburg team
is embarrassed by his actions, and today one of his own
teamates even said that hit should have been dealt with
by the league.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
A rule is already in place to deal with this kind of garbage and the league looked the other way.

Hopefully the GM's have solved this problem.

I'd get fighting out as well....totally pointless.

actually there is no rule in place for this particular play, and even when the new rule comes in 'next' season,
it covers 'blind' hits only, but not shoulders to the head,
unless you blind side a player, or charge a player.

They still seem to think that is OK to hit a player in
the head with the shoulder, which is a huge hard cap on
a players shoulder, as hard as an elbow, not like the
shoulder pads years ago.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Well, as most people who follow sports know, the debate over head injuries and concussions and the steps necessary to avoid them has escalated in the past couple years, with the rising number of diagnosed concussions. The topic was discussed at the NHL GM meetings with the latest incident of Matt Cooke on Marc Savard in Pittsburgh the other night, highlighting it.

NHL GMs have now agreed that headshots should be penalized. Here's a link to the TSN coverage of the story NHL GM's recommend that head shots be penalized and here is a quote of the statement the GMs made:

"A lateral, back pressure or blindside hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and or the principal point of contact is not permitted. A violation of the above will result in a minor or major penalty and shall be reviewed for possible supplemental discipline."

This is a subject, that as a hockey fan, is of great interest to me, but I am also of two minds on the matter. We've seen careers of players like Keith Primeau, Eric and Brett Lindros and others cut short by these types of injuries. The effects of them are largely unknown, but its beleived that the effects of these concussions are cumulative and in some cases more geometric than linear (the injury/recovery period from an additional concussion may be 3-10 times as severe as the initial one(s)). Some of my mixed feelings are echoed in this statement:

"We felt there is a degree of responsibility - moreso to the player receiving the hit - when a guy's coming straight at you. But it's that blindside hit that we find is so disturbing and it's tough to protect yourself in our game, with the speed," - NHL senior vice president of hockey operations Colin Campbell.


My concern is with the amount (or lack) of accountability placed on the puck carrier to do one of the first and most fundamental things that should be taught in minor hockey: keep your head up and protect yourself. When I think back to Eric Lindros' major incident, it was him dancing through the high slot with his head down and getting leveled by Scot Stevens with a textbook open ice hit. I saw Matt Cooke's hit on Savard the other night and from my perspective Cooke may have been a touch late (and the NHL didn't see anything violating the rules as they existed at that point), but again, Savard has his head down. Its the same with a lot of the "controversial" hits in the last couple years : guys have their heads down, admiring their shot or pass instead of being aware of whats going on around them.

I hate seeing the injuries. I hate thinking about some of the issues these guys may be facing later on in life from the effects of multiple head traumas but I am concerned that the NHL and the minor leagues are attacking a symptom rather than a cause here. I love the physical aspect of hockey: its a big part of the appeal to me as a fan and when I played.

Savard 'had just' shot the puck, and immediately was blind
sided by cooke, and wasn't standing there admiring his
shot either, he is too smart for that, a star player, who
is the best offensive player on the boston team, not a
rookie who would make that mistake.
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
1
18
Vancouver
Cooke has never been a nice player, even when he was in Vancouver, but he was in motion towards Savard.. If you watch this replay at the very end ( Slow Mo ), you can see he makes no effort to stop his motion but as wulfie points out Savard has his head down, not paying attention..

I don't understand. Why is it okay to give a guy a head shot simply because he was skating with his head down? I mean is it some kind of hockey mentality that if you see a player taking the puck up the ice with his head down, it's open season for head shots?

I've seen a lot of head shots on highlight reels on TV. They are brutal. Personally, I think if a player is injured by a head shot and takes 3 weeks to recover, then the player that dished out the hit should be suspended until the injured player has recovered. If the head shot was a career ending hit... then guess what? 2 careers have just ended... not 1. Of course, the manner in which the hit was issued is up for interpretation, however, from what I've seen, there are some hits that are obviously aimed at injuring the other player.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
I don't understand. Why is it okay to give a guy a head shot simply because he was skating with his head down? I mean is it some kind of hockey mentality that if you see a player taking the puck up the ice with his head down, it's open season for head shots?

I've seen a lot of head shots on highlight reels on TV. They are brutal. Personally, I think if a player is injured by a head shot and takes 3 weeks to recover, then the player that dished out the hit should be suspended until the injured player has recovered. If the head shot was a career ending hit... then guess what? 2 careers have just ended... not 1. Of course, the manner in which the hit was issued is up for interpretation, however, from what I've seen, there are some hits that are obviously aimed at injuring the other player.

Savard had just shot the puck, he was instantly hit blind
side by matt cooke, 'cooke targeted his head', he didn't have to
do that, could have hit him shoulder to shoulder, he had time to
make that decision, had nothing to do with savard having his head
down, that was not the case, he was paying attention, he is a very
seasoned talented player, bostons best, and he wasn't
standing around like a dope.
This shouldn't be transferred to savard, cooke did a very
dirty deed, and none of it was savard's fault, no one could
have avoided that hit, he never saw what hit him.

In boston/pittsburg game tonight, thornton got cooke as
soon as he came on the ice, made him fight, and gave him
a lesson. Not sure if they are finished with him, maybe.

Similar hit last night in a game, but was on the boards,
so he was given boarding penalty, but it was a head shot,
very dirty play, he got 8 game suspension today, similar
to what cooke should be given.
Players should 'not' need a rule to tell them to leave
each other's heads alone, they should have the respect
for their fellow player on every team, they all need
each other to play the game.
I love the hitting game, and it will always be there, but
suspend players severly for targeting the head.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
The bit of hockey I watch these days (olympics excepted) reminds me a lot of the movie "Rollerball".

Great stuff.

Especially love the two handers over the head, and the blood on the ice. yay yay our team.

They'll NEVER stop it as it brings in MONEY!!!!!!!!

IDIOTS love it.

Specially in the States.

Lots of idiots there.

Many young men are going to be turned into drooling veggies in years to come and they will still be debating ..............about.................(violence)...................heavens how dreadful.

Don Cherry should be hung. Does that make me a................................pansy??:hippy2: Oh golly gee, I hope not.
Yep, we're right on track now.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
The bit of hockey I watch these days (olympics excepted) reminds me a lot of the movie "Rollerball".

Great stuff.

Especially love the two handers over the head, and the blood on the ice. yay yay our team.

They'll NEVER stop it as it brings in MONEY!!!!!!!!

IDIOTS love it.

Specially in the States.

Lots of idiots there.

Many young men are going to be turned into drooling veggies in years to come and they will still be debating ..............about.................(violence)...................heavens how dreadful.


Don Cherry should be hung. Does that make me a................................pansy??:hippy2: Oh golly gee, I hope not.
Yep, we're right on track now.

Speaking of 'drooling veggies', your post is exactly that.

GO CANUCKS GO
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
You guys see that recent hit where the seabrook got knocked the **** out.....

I like the odd fight, but not cheap shots, what is happening to the NHL......

If anyone here thinks cheap shots are cool ****, then your a cheapshot

what is it with doe head ^players in the NHL needing to hit another players head..... Is it the lack of their own brain cells or something?
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
You guys see that recent hit where the seabrook got knocked the **** out.....

I like the odd fight, but not cheap shots, what is happening to the NHL......

If anyone here thinks cheap shots are cool ****, then your a cheapshot

what is it with doe head ^players in the NHL needing to hit another players head..... Is it the lack of their own brain cells or something?


yeah, they have become a problem, but now that wizneuski,(sp?) gets 8 game suspension, it seems the NHL is finally
on the right track, took them too long, and with the new
rule coming into effect soon, those cheap shots will start
disapearing, and the ones that don't will be given big
suspensions.

Before the lockout, there were many bad things happening
in hockey, bench clearing brawls, stick swinging incidents,
spearing, along with the clutching and holding, that is now
gone from the game, so we are just at another new transition
point, where the game will take another turn for the 'good'.

The players 'today' are bigger, stronger, more talented than
ever before, so the hits are harder, at a faster speed,
and when hit above the shoulders at that speed from someone
that big and that strong, someday a death will occur, so
it has to be stopped, and players shouldn't have to have
a rule to prevent them from headhunting, but apparantly
they do, so be it.