Headshots

Headshots

Risus

#31

Re: Headshots

Apr 4th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Iceman778

the player today are not stronger because they are not healthy

the opposite is true, better fitness, better diet, better training, better
skaters, bigger players, everything in todays player is better, just like
most everything else in sports, it is better now than before.

Don't forget steroids...

talloola

#32

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Risus

Don't forget steroids...

I don't even think about steroids, no one has given me
reason to.

talloola

#33

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

Really? Then why does the list -- have so many players from decades ago?

Best players of all time have to be players from decades
ago, as they have to complete a career to be qualified
for that stature.

because it was decades ago, this is now, and we are talking
about now.

Wayne Gretzky, Orr and certain players of that stature will
always be remembered and admired, and the stars of today
will someday be listed 'decades' ago as you say.

The teams as a whole are much better, all players are much
better, coaching, training, minors, equipment, fitness,
diet, skating, all much better than decades ago, or for
that matter, 5-10 years ago.

There are many many players who played in the NHL years ago,
who would never make the team in this day and age.

Majority of players now who are very 'big', are also very 'talented'. A guy who is 6'2" now is just an average
size, and there are also some smaller players, but those
guys are great skaters, have to be. There are quite a few
players who are 6'4" and up, and two players in the league
are 6'8", both of whom are top notch players.

Years ago, the teams were not nearly as big as they are
now, and most of the players who were really big were just
goons, and couldn't play that well, no so today.

Those players decades ago were the best at that time, these
players now, aren't old enough to be part of that list.
Goalies are better now than before.

If you follow sports enough for many years, it's very easy
to remember and see all of that happening.

Praxius

#34

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

My stance on the whole matter is that there shouldn't be any head shots period.... regardless if the guy has his head down or up.... aim for their body, there's no need to go full on into somebody's head.

And in most cases, you can't always know where everybody is all the time. And there have been some people who just passed the puck and still clobbered in the head, or someone just got on the ice or way out of the area of play and some idiot who got pissed about something, just plows into them when they shouldn't have needed to be alert and avoid hits in the first place.

Headshots imo are geared to take someone out of the game, plain and simple.

Aim for their body or don't go after them at all.

Anybody who headshots, should be kicked out of the game, because the right headshot could take someone out of their career.

It's a game afterall and people shouldn't have to fear being smashed by an attack coming from a blind side or when they shouldn't be expecting a hit and risk some form of permanent damage. Body checks, the occasional fight.... sure, but a full body/elbow hit directly at someone's head is excessive.

Praxius

#35

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by talloola

Best players of all time have to be players from decades
ago, as they have to complete a career to be qualified
for that stature.

because it was decades ago, this is now, and we are talking
about now.

Wayne Gretzky, Orr and certain players of that stature will
always be remembered and admired, and the stars of today
will someday be listed 'decades' ago as you say.

The teams as a whole are much better, all players are much
better, coaching, training, minors, equipment, fitness,
diet, skating, all much better than decades ago, or for
that matter, 5-10 years ago.

There are many many players who played in the NHL years ago,
who would never make the team in this day and age.

Majority of players now who are very 'big', are also very 'talented'. A guy who is 6'2" now is just an average
size, and there are also some smaller players, but those
guys are great skaters, have to be. There are quite a few
players who are 6'4" and up, and two players in the league
are 6'8", both of whom are top notch players.

Years ago, the teams were not nearly as big as they are
now, and most of the players who were really big were just
goons, and couldn't play that well, no so today.

Those players decades ago were the best at that time, these
players now, aren't old enough to be part of that list.
Goalies are better now than before.

If you follow sports enough for many years, it's very easy
to remember and see all of that happening.

I'm just skimming through, so sorry if I repeat something said already.... but to add to the above, back in the 80's and earlier, most of the talented and skilled players with the puck like Gretzky, were not targeted as much as the same styled players are targeted today.

They were given a level of respect and space, where most who went after them, went after the puck, not the player and anytime I seen someone plow into a guy like Gretzky, the level of boo's from fans would abound... even if they were fans of your own team. It was just something you didn't do because most knew they weren't fighters or play rough, they're puck handlers. But now watch what's done to Crosby as an example..... during the last playoffs, just about every time Crosby got the puck, he was alone, then doubled teamed by the other players, up-ended, smashed into the boards, plowed into the corners, the other team is all over him the moment he gets the puck.

And I suppose that makes sense. Don't give the guy with the most talent any space to setup and stay on them so they don't score..... but it's certainly to a whole new level these days and I seen a lot of cheap shots given out too in the process.

It seems today that most of the talented players are given a lot more special attention when it comes to physical contact... in that they get the most and the worst, and risk being taken out of the game sooner then everybody else.

talloola

#36

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius

I'm just skimming through, so sorry if I repeat something said already.... but to add to the above, back in the 80's and earlier, most of the talented and skilled players with the puck like Gretzky, were not targeted as much as the same styled players are targeted today.
They were given a level of respect and space, where most who went after them, went after the puck, not the player and anytime I seen someone plow into a guy like Gretzky, the level of boo's from fans would abound... even if they were fans of your own team. It was just something you didn't do because most knew they weren't fighters or play rough, they're puck handlers. But now watch what's done to Crosby as an example..... during the last playoffs, just about every time Crosby got the puck, he was alone, then doubled teamed by the other players, up-ended, smashed into the boards, plowed into the corners, the other team is all over him the moment he gets the puck.
And I suppose that makes sense. Don't give the guy with the most talent any space to setup and stay on them so they don't score..... but it's certainly to a whole new level these days and I seen a lot of cheap shots given out too in the process.
It seems today that most of the talented players are given a lot more special attention when it comes to physical contact... in that they get the most and the worst, and risk being taken out of the game sooner then everybody else.
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

yes, you're right, but back then gretzky for example had
semenko looking out for him, so anyone touched him had to
deal with semenko, today there is the instigator rule, and
they are not allowed to do that, and that is OK, cause I
don't want to see that come back, there is enough fighting
now, and that would just cause more. The refs do turn a
blind eye on many occasions when team mates come to the
rescue of one of theirs who has just been roughed up, so
it does kind of even out.
The players now are so big and fast, that we will see more
of the heavy play on the boards etc., travelling faster,
are bigger and the collisions and hits are stronger, but I
think the league is slowly sorting it out, the new rule
that came in will make players 'think' more out there, and
the dirty cowardly hit, like cook did on savard will be
few and far between, and if they do happen, the penalties
will be severe.

AnnaG

#37

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

and can it be assumed it is the same with you, or have you continued to be a fan?

I'll tag along to a local game but my preference is soccer. Not so much watching as playing and coaching.

AnnaG

#38

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by talloola

Best players of all time have to be players from decades
ago, as they have to complete a career to be qualified
for that stature.

because it was decades ago, this is now, and we are talking
about now.

Wayne Gretzky, Orr and certain players of that stature will
always be remembered and admired, and the stars of today
will someday be listed 'decades' ago as you say.

The teams as a whole are much better, all players are much
better, coaching, training, minors, equipment, fitness,
diet, skating, all much better than decades ago, or for
that matter, 5-10 years ago.

There are many many players who played in the NHL years ago,
who would never make the team in this day and age.

Majority of players now who are very 'big', are also very 'talented'. A guy who is 6'2" now is just an average
size, and there are also some smaller players, but those
guys are great skaters, have to be. There are quite a few
players who are 6'4" and up, and two players in the league
are 6'8", both of whom are top notch players.

Years ago, the teams were not nearly as big as they are
now, and most of the players who were really big were just
goons, and couldn't play that well, no so today.

Those players decades ago were the best at that time, these
players now, aren't old enough to be part of that list.
Goalies are better now than before.

If you follow sports enough for many years, it's very easy
to remember and see all of that happening.

Ok.

That makes sense. Some things do get better with age; like techniques, training, technology, etc. But who's to say thet Orr or LeMieux wouldn't cut the mustard now if they had the same modern training, technology, etc.?

talloola

#39

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

Ok. That makes sense. Some things do get better with age; like techniques, training, technology, etc. But who's to say thet Orr or LeMieux wouldn't cut the mustard now if they had the same modern training, technology, etc.?

of course they would, those particular players and others
like them will always rise to the occasion, the were the
cream of the crop, but the cream of the crop is the minority
not the majority.

and on top of technique, training etc etc., todays players 'majority' are bigger, stronger, skate better and more talented, the minor hockey these
days is more thorough, coached better, kids have roller blades at a very
young age, and by the time they are 12 or so, you can allready see the
possibilities of the future, and there are late bloomers too, and the
teams are always hunting them out, from the lower leagues, not too many
but always a few.
No more beer drinking after games, and night life, and poor diet, the
management see to it, that the players are fit and eat right, and if any
can't or won't do that, out they go.
eg. shane o'brian on the canucks, has been kept out of a few games because
of 'off ice' behavior and breaking rules, hence he has been put on a new
program away from the team, and won't be playing till management and coach
see the improvement. (maybe he will be in next game, he has missed four now
I believe). Years ago, in orr's day, that dicipline was not there.

Last edited by talloola; Apr 5th, 2010 at 02:01 PM..

AnnaG

#40

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius

My stance on the whole matter is that there shouldn't be any head shots period.... regardless if the guy has his head down or up.... aim for their body, there's no need to go full on into somebody's head.

And in most cases, you can't always know where everybody is all the time. And there have been some people who just passed the puck and still clobbered in the head, or someone just got on the ice or way out of the area of play and some idiot who got pissed about something, just plows into them when they shouldn't have needed to be alert and avoid hits in the first place.

Headshots imo are geared to take someone out of the game, plain and simple.

I'll ditto that. But then I can't even see why a player will go after another player after he's gotten rid of the puck unless it is too late for him to stop.

Quote:

Aim for their body or don't go after them at all.

Anybody who headshots, should be kicked out of the game, because the right headshot could take someone out of their career.

It's a game afterall and people shouldn't have to fear being smashed by an attack coming from a blind side or when they shouldn't be expecting a hit and risk some form of permanent damage. Body checks, the occasional fight.... sure, but a full body/elbow hit directly at someone's head is excessive.

Ditto, IMO.

talloola

#41

Re: Headshots

Apr 5th, 2010

Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG

I'll ditto that. But then I can't even see why a player will go after another player after he's gotten rid of the puck unless it is too late for him to stop.

Ditto, IMO.

Yeah, and that is quite a grey area, because there are a
few things that sometimes happen in that split second when
a player is almost going to hit another, who has the puck,
the speed of both players, or the one attacking is usually
travelling faster, players are very big, boards are very hard, shoulder
pads are very hard, and 'sometimes' the player who is going
to be hit makes a quick little move right before hit, which
causes 'hit' to be worse. No bodys fault really, but can
put referee in a position where they have to make a big
decision about 'intent' or not, or if the person was hit
in the head because he all of a sudden ducked down, the
referee has to decide about that, and many times it is just
a 'mean' hit, and player doing hitting must be penalized,
and film is sent to league for evaluation, and player is
suspended.
Everything is'nt 'cut and dried', when high speed is involved.
It is a very physical, rough tough game, with lots of
body contact, and we all love that aspect of the game,
that is hockey, and of course the player must be protected
from serious injury as best he can.

Last edited by talloola; Apr 6th, 2010 at 01:43 AM..

Iceman778

#42

Re: Headshots

Apr 8th, 2010

if anyone here thinks cheap shots are cool ****, then i think the are right