The Debate is better than I thought


damngrumpy
#1
Tonight the early going does not indicate any movement however I think Harper
is on the defensive because he has no annimation. Harper is doing a good job
of controlling his temper. Iggy is actually doing better than I thought he would.
Jack is doing surprisingly well, and Dueceppe is pushing hard on the issues.
Harper is polished and that is his problem tonight, he repeats the sketchy facts,
Iggy leads with his straight out themes without talking much about what he would
do.
Interesting because I think we will in fact see the direction campaign advertising
will take. Oh I think Dueceppe just nailed Harper with the old coalition deal from
2004. This reminds me of the old McKenzie King statement Conscription yes
but not necessarily conscription. No coalition but a coalition of loose ties to throw
out the Liberals and install the Conservatives because Harper wanted to be the
Prime Minister.
Coalition is out for Iggy, and Layton is about to take advantage of it, this is a good
show, for sure.
 
Corduroy
#2
Ignatieff is doing much better than I expected, getting a little shrill at points, looked a bit of a goof on that coalition question, but I thought he'd be a John Kerry-like disaster. Harper isn't really addressing the debate. He's addressing the audience and his responses turn quickly into stump speeches. Layton is just so-so and Duceppe isn't performing as well as the last debate. I thought we was good during the last debate because he could say whatever he wants to English Canada. He doesn't need to lie like all the others. But this time, he's a little meh.
 
PoliticalNick
#3
I can't believe Harper claimed a mandate from the people with 37% of the popular vote, does he think we are all idiots?

I think Jacko is doing quite well talking about some real issues.

Iggy is doing worse than I expected after watching a lot of his campaign so far.

I agree with you Cordoroy Harper is using this as a forum for stump speeches.

Wow, Harpo keeps killing himself, promoting bringing in foreign workers when our unemplyment is still so high is not good policy and most people are not going to buy that.
 
Corduroy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Wow, Harpo keeps killing himself, promoting bringing in foreign workers when our unemplyment is still so high is not good policy and most people are not going to buy that.

All the leaders claim to be pro-immigration. If you're anti-immigration you have no one to vote for.
 
In Between Man
+2 / -3
#5
Mr. Harper is smoking these fools!

Everyone is taking cheap shots at Mr. Harper but he hasn't given them an inch of territory! He's calm, cool, humble, and sticking to the facts and issues. A man's man!

Ignatieff and Duceppe stammer too much.

And Layton wants proportional representation? Change our whole system? Please!
 
damngrumpy
+1
#6
I am listening with some of the younger members of our family and my wife. Most of the
young like Iggy first, Layton second and Harper third. You are right though, Harper is
attempting to speak directly to the Canadian people, and its not working the reason is
simple. He is holding his temper back while becoming monotone.
My biggest surprise is Iggy is connecting with young people. The more I listen to him the
more grudging respect I have for him. I have never voted for a Liberal in my life. I have
already made up my mind I will not vote for Harper because of their social conservative
vent, as opposed to fiscal conservatism. I am being left with one of two choices, Jack
Layton or Iggy himself.
I have more confidence in the Liberal leader than Harper, however Layton is doing a better
job than I thought, even though I disagree with him on proportional representation.
The tone of this debate is actually quite good for a limited time debate.
 
Mowich
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Tonight the early going does not indicate any movement however I think Harper
is on the defensive because he has no annimation. Harper is doing a good job
of controlling his temper.

Disagree, DG - I've seen Harper look uncomfortable and this isn't that look - he actually looks like he is having a good time especially watching that little go round between Jackie and Iggy.

Quote:

Iggy is actually doing better than I thought he would.

Again, I beg to disagree. Iggy looks stern and he is very strident at times - his voice rubs me the wrong way when he is haranguing Harper. And he better start talking about policy soon.


Quote:

Jack is doing surprisingly well, and Dueceppe is pushing hard on the issues.

Agree on both counts. Gilles really gets down to policy debates which is very interesting to watch as he pressures his opponent for a committment on camera.

Quote:

Harper is polished and that is his problem tonight, he repeats the sketchy facts,
Iggy leads with his straight out themes without talking much about what he would
do.

I hear a lot of sincerity in Harper's voice as I do in Jack's. Iggy doesn't have his policy down pat. He stutters a lot when trying to explain them.

Quote:

Interesting because I think we will in fact see the direction campaign advertising
will take. Oh I think Dueceppe just nailed Harper with the old coalition deal from
2004. This reminds me of the old McKenzie King statement Conscription yes
but not necessarily conscription. No coalition but a coalition of loose ties to throw
out the Liberals and install the Conservatives because Harper wanted to be the
Prime Minister.
Coalition is out for Iggy, and Layton is about to take advantage of it, this is a good
show, for sure.

I agree, this is way more fun then I thought it would be - there have been a few good zingers.

Have to add that I give Iggy points for his answer to crime prevention, he was very effective when talking about the pivotal point of a young person's life.
 
PoliticalNick
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Mr. Harper is smoking these fools!

Are you sure you're watching the right program????

Quote:

Everyone is taking cheap shots at Mr. Harper but he hasn't given them an inch of territory! He's calm, cool, humble, and sticking to the facts and issues. A man's man!

He looks well prepared to give his spin on the issues without answering direct questions. He has already put his foot in has mouth a couple of times regarding some of his policies like temporary foreign workers and corporate tax cuts.

Quote:

Ignatieff and Duceppe stammer too much.

Iggy does look unprepared and even unfamiliar with his platform, quite different from the rest of his campaign so far. I think Gilles may just have trouble with english.

Quote:

And Layton wants proportional representation? Change our whole system? Please!

What is your problem with a true democratic representation of the people in parliament?
 
damngrumpy
+1
#9
We will have to agree to disagree, Harper in my view is repeating parts of his stump speech
but he is calm, Iggy is doing the same to some degree except people are getting to see the
Liberal Leader in a single place. I think he will gain some points here tonight, but as time goes
on Layton is actually more animated than Iggy in my view. Tonight, Harper is not going to
carry the day anymore than anyone else.
I think the Conservative leader is doing as well as can be expected as the Prime Minister.
 
JLM
+3 / -1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Mr. Harper is smoking these fools!

Everyone is taking cheap shots at Mr. Harper but he hasn't given them an inch of territory! He's calm, cool, humble, and sticking to the facts and issues. A man's man!

Ignatieff and Duceppe stammer too much.

And Layton wants proportional representation? Change our whole system? Please!

Yeah, Harper appeals to common sense, Layton and Iggy appeal to the emotions.
 
lone wolf
+2
#11
I keep looking for a cassette player up Harpo's ****....
 
damngrumpy
+1
#12
Harper has scored a point here on rural gun registration on this issue I agree with him.
There is a difference between handguns and long guns. I agree that you don't go out
and hunt squirrels with a machine pistol.
I also don't like proportional representation. On immigration, I do agree we need more
not less people in Canada. What we need though, are families that want to come here
to become Canadians. We need people who understand the principles of democracy.
We need to have people who have skills the are required for the betterment of Canada.
For a long time we keep the ideal of multiculturalism alive even though it is a miserable
failure. We cannot allow people to come here and continue the old feuds and hatreds
they left behind. Multiculturalism no but an interwoven society yes based on this is the
Canadian way.
 
JLM
-1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy;I have more confidence in the Liberal leader than Harper, however[SIZE=6

Layton is doing a better[/SIZE]
job than I thought, even though I disagree with him on proportional representation.
The tone of this debate is actually quite good for a limited time debate.

Yep, Layton would make a good Prime Minister until someone else's money runs out.
 
lone wolf
#14
Oh well... It ain't yours 'til it's in your pocket anyhow....
 
JLM
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Oh well... It ain't yours 'til it's in your pocket anyhow....

And even when it is it's not!
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yep, Layton would make a good Prime Minister until someone else's money runs out.

Maybe you should give him a 5 year trial period and see. We know what Harpo can f*ck up in 7 years and we know what the Libs can f*ck up in 12 years.
 
JLM
#17
Layton just scored a bunch of points (in my book) on health care - prevention, healthier eating, reducing salt, sugar etc. Now if he would just get it out of the public sector I might even vote for him.
 
damngrumpy
+2
#18
JLM it all depends on the kind of NDP he turns out to be. Saskatchewan New Democrats
produced sixteen balanced budgets in a row, before the Sask Party came to power.
I believe we have to be socially progressive and fiscally conservative. The problem is the
current Tory Government has made a worse mess than almost any other government in the
history of Canada. Huge deficits and they will continue for another two to four years.
 
JLM
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Maybe you should give him a 5 year trial period and see. We know what Harpo can f*ck up in 7 years and we know what the Libs can f*ck up in 12 years.

There is only one way I'd concede to giving Layton a five year trial period- a ceiling on personal tax at what it is now. You know damn well with the N.D.P. you are going to be taxed to death.

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

JLM it all depends on the kind of NDP he turns out to be. Saskatchewan New Democrats
produced sixteen balanced budgets in a row, before the Sask Party came to power.
I believe we have to be socially progressive and fiscally conservative. The problem is the
current Tory Government has made a worse mess than almost any other government in the
history of Canada. Huge deficits and they will continue for another two to four years.

True, but Canada did as well as any country in the world during the downturn of 2008- 09, not to mention a lot of our mess was tied to the U.S. I don't think it's fair to condemn Harper for that.
 
PoliticalNick
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There is only one way I'd concede to giving Layton a five year trial period- a ceiling on personal tax at what it is now. You know damn well with the N.D.P. you are going to be taxed to death.

I think that would depend on your income. I doubt anyone of them increasing taxes on the poor or the working poor (incomes less than $60k combined). Harper has to increase somewhere to make up for $6 billion if he calims he can reduce the deficit but I highly doubt he can do that given his record.
 
damngrumpy
#21
I think we are having a good debate of our own, I am nervous about giving anyone a majority
and I think they all scored some points tonight.
 
PoliticalNick
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

I think we are having a good debate of our own, I am nervous about giving anyone a majority
and I think they all scored some points tonight.

Harper may have scored once with the long gun registry but he then backed that up with increased gun control..HUH?

Iggy was basically in attack mode against Harper all night and did not come off strong on any of the issues to me, I think he may have lost ground.

Jacko seemed to be clear and concise trying to put forward his platform while throwing the odd barb at both Harper and Iggy.

Gilles...well he doesn't matter outside of Quebec so....

It was certainly overall a gang attack on Harper and he withstood it well (give him credit for this) but his record is so poor and he came across as robotic and detached from the issues that concern Canadians.
 
Johnny Utah
-1
#23
Harper did good however his glasses looked like they were falling off his face. Iggy kept bring up the billions for the Military Jets, as I recall that deal was made while the Liberals were in power so he's acting like an F**king Hypocrite, but if I'm wrong on the details the fact he's still bringing them up still fails because it's a done deal and the Canadian Military needs them..
 
Goober
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

JLM it all depends on the kind of NDP he turns out to be. Saskatchewan New Democrats
produced sixteen balanced budgets in a row, before the Sask Party came to power.
I believe we have to be socially progressive and fiscally conservative. The problem is the
current Tory Government has made a worse mess than almost any other government in the
history of Canada. Huge deficits and they will continue for another two to four years.

DG

As all opposition parties have stated they will not support the budget as presented last month.

2 possibilities with a Harper minority -

1 - Budget presented in its original form. - They (opposition) vote it down, Iggy then has the right to seek support from the other parties and present the GG with the decision, stating that he has the support of the house and GG making the Libs the Government - Jack becomes Deputy Dog. That would mean NDP and the with the tacit support of the Bloc would hold substantial sway. NDP more so than the Bloc. Even the Cons would have to support bills that were completely for Canada as a whole if the Bloc decides to withhold approval. Very interesting times they would be.

2 - Harper changes the budget, keeps the Bus tax at present levels, and a few others and presents something that the parties cannot really vote against. Hard to do though.Harper holds on for 18 months.- party infighting and all - bang - another election - And Harper could have his majority.
 
Mowich
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yep, Layton would make a good Prime Minister until someone else's money runs out.

Show me the money! That was Jack throughout the debate. He is going to do everything the minute he steps into office - ohhhhhhhhkay.

I thought Jack had by far the best zingers during the debate though.
 
TenPenny
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Harper may have scored once with the long gun registry but he then backed that up with increased gun control..HUH?

That must be to cement Colpy's vote.
 
In Between Man
+2
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Are you sure you're watching the right program????

Yes. With an open mind unlike the left.

Quote:

He looks well prepared to give his spin on the issues without answering direct questions. He has already put his foot in has mouth a couple of times regarding some of his policies like temporary foreign workers and corporate tax cuts.

He looks well prepared because he factual. He's calm and cool because he has nothing to hide contrary to the what the childish leaders of the other parties say.

Quote:

Iggy does look unprepared and even unfamiliar with his platform, quite different from the rest of his campaign so far. I think Gilles may just have trouble with english.

He's a rookie. And twice mentioned stricter gun control which is obviously illogical, wasteful and pointless. Did you see how he snapped at Layton "at least we've been there! (formed the government)"? What an arrogant S.O.B.!

When he loses, which he will, I hope he goes back to Harvard just to prove that he really is a snake.

Quote:

What is your problem with a true democratic representation of the people in parliament?

Is this really the time to change our entire voting system? Also, the only reason why Layton wants proportional representation is because he wants more power for him and his party! Hello!

Mr. Harper was clear, concise, factual, and respectful. Give that man a majority.
 
Mowich
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Maybe you should give him a 5 year trial period and see. We know what Harpo can f*ck up in 7 years and we know what the Libs can f*ck up in 12 years.

And we KNOW that the NDP would screw up in one month. LOL! Then maybe I give them too much credit.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Layton just scored a bunch of points (in my book) on health care - prevention, healthier eating, reducing salt, sugar etc. Now if he would just get it out of the public sector I might even vote for him.

I got a kick out of how they all danced around using the word privatization, calling it alternative health care instead. Jack was effective but lost points, IMHO, when he insisted once again that the NDP would change things immeadiately. He kept insisting that things need doing now, knowing full well after his years in parliament that nothing works that fast even with a majority.
 
TenPenny
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

And twice mentioned stricter gun control which is obviously illogical, wasteful and pointless.

Didn't Harper mention that we need effective gun control, is that also illogical, wasteful, and pointless?

Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Mr. Harper was clear, concise, factual, and respectful. Give that man a majority.

Well, he's obviously got you fooled, if you trust anything he said. Compare what he said last time out, with what he did when in power. Ethics in government? Yeah, right. If you buy that stuff, you deserve what you get.
 
In Between Man
+3
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

Didn't Harper mention that we need effective gun control, is that also illogical, wasteful, and pointless?

Yes, we need effective gun control, and the registry does nothing for that. Ignatieff sounds as if he's hell bent on banning them if not just over regulating the law abiding firearm owners.
 

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