Church's push to legalize marijuana dismissed...

[DaSleeper]

A Superior Court judge dismissed a Toronto church's request to exempt the country's marijuana laws for religious reasons on Monday.

It's believed to be the first time a Canadian court had been asked to define whether a religion's illegal practices are protected by the Charter of Rights.

Church of the Universe lawyers Paul Lewin and George Filipovic, who represent two minister members of the church, argued the church views cannabis as sacred substance which brings them closer to God.

By outlawing marijuana, the state is infringing on the Universe church-goers' Charter right of Freedom of Religion, their lawyers argued.

The two lawyers represent Peter Styrsky and Shahrooz Kharaghani, both minister-members of the Beaches Mission of God -- Assembly of The Church of the Universe (COU) location in east Toronto.

Styrsky, 53, and Kharaghani, 31, were charged with trafficking marijuana after they allegedly sold pot to two undercover cops who infiltrated their church as members in 2006.

Madam Justice Thea Herman denied the exemption, which would have struck down the laws prohibiting the possession, cultivation and distribution of marijuana.

Church's push to legalize marijuana dismissed | Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun

 

[earth_as_one]

I don't know about this Church, but marijuana is an integral part of Rastafari movement which is a Christian religion. Smoking marijuana is their equivalent to taking communion. According to their scriptures, they are God's chosen people and the rastafari Holy lands (somewhere near Ethiopia) belong to them. I used to ride the bus with a practicing Rastafarian. We sat at the back and talked about Jah on the way to work. They guy was pretty laid back and led an extremely loss stress lifestyle. A very interesting, non-violent peaceful religion. I support the right of Rastafarians to take communion legally. They aren't hurting anyone. Dey jus smoke da herb man. I and I wish you Irie...

 

[Praxius]

There's no logical reason today why weed should remain illegal....... the Superior Court rejected the argument, but what were their reasons?

Were there any reasons or did they just say no and that was it?

From the link:

Prosecutors Nick Devlin and Donna Polgar called the church a sham.

Members paid $25 to join and received weed — sometimes unmeasured and “high quality,” but only about 40 to 60 of the 1,800 members attended services, Herman said.

^ Big deal, Christians "Give Donations" to their churches, and exactly how many self-proclaimed Christians actually "Go to church?"

If one rounded up the numbers, one could argue Christianity was a sham based on the same mentality these clowns used.

Despite permitted medical use of marijuana, the judge said laws protect “vulnerable people” by keeping marijuana illegal.

^ WTF does that mean? Vulnerable people?? Who the hell are they?

How's them tobacco laws and regulations doing with protecting the vulnerable?

What a crock...... someday there will be a judge or court with enough balls to take the first step and do the right thing..... but right now, nobody has the spine to stand up and be the one noticed across the country as the judge that made pot legal.

They just keep passing the buck to the next court...... over and over.

 

[darkbeaver]

There's no logical reason today why weed should remain illegal....... the Superior Court rejected the argument, but what were their reasons?

Were there any reasons or did they just say no and that was it?

From the link:



^ Big deal, Christians "Give Donations" to their churches, and exactly how many self-proclaimed Christians actually "Go to church?"

If one rounded up the numbers, one could argue Christianity was a sham based on the same mentality these clowns used.



^ WTF does that mean? Vulnerable people?? Who the hell are they?

How's them tobacco laws and regulations doing with protecting the vulnerable?

What a crock...... someday there will be a judge or court with enough balls to take the first step and do the right thing..... but right now, nobody has the spine to stand up and be the one noticed across the country as the judge that made pot legal.

They just keep passing the buck to the next court...... over and over.

The logic is sound, the logic is simple, the logic makes money, it makes lots of money. There is every logical reason. It depends on the observers perspective. Those observers make billions and billions and billions of dollars off their addicts and they don't want you happy cuz if you're happy you won't buy their junk and if you're cured they'll never see you again.(insert smile)

 

[petros]

The good thing about weed is the cops aren't looking for it anymore. They only respond to complaints.

 

[Unforgiven]

I think the problem for the court and I've had a problem with this aspect too, is that if it's religion and a sacrament, then all parishioners are expected to take the sacrament. Children too, which is a problem in that in some children predisposed to psychosis can have an earlier onset of the mental illness that they otherwise would not have.

According to recent study that is.

So it is that there is no regulation within the church to keep Cannabis out of the hands of children and no spiritual reason to back that up. Exactly the opposite it seems and so the religious basis can only fail in getting an exemption from the law or change the laws.

Cannabis and Cannabis products should be legal because they are harmless, and because they can be regulated to keep then out of the hands of those who should not have them.

 

[darkbeaver]

Thanks to Al Quahda the Taliban Islamist the Chinese all requiring a stretched security apparatus, they have saved us. I.ll dedicate my next joint to them.

 

[TenPenny]

What the court actually ruled is that the church cannot SELL marijuana.

The court accepted that marijuana is part of the church services. The priests can't sell it, though.

 

[darkbeaver]

I think the problem for the court and I've had a problem with this aspect too, is that if it's religion and a sacrament, then all parishioners are expected to take the sacrament. Children too, which is a problem in that in some children predisposed to psychosis can have an earlier onset of the mental illness that they otherwise would not have.

According to recent study that is.

So it is that there is no regulation within the church to keep Cannabis out of the hands of children and no spiritual reason to back that up. Exactly the opposite it seems and so the religious basis can only fail in getting an exemption from the law or change the laws.

Cannabis and Cannabis products should be legal because they are harmless, and because they can be regulated to keep then out of the hands of those who should not have them.

an early onset of mental illness???????????? you mean they got scared don.t you???????????? kids have functioning endocannibinoid systems, beside you said they were harmless

 

[petros]

Wine is a sacrement and can sure **** up societies in big ways.

 

[Unforgiven]

an early onset of mental illness???????????? you mean they got scared don.t you???????????? kids have functioning endocannibinoid systems, beside you said they were harmless

No I mean they can suffer early on set of mental illness.

Cannabis is harmless when used responsibly by adults. Like a car, or a hand gun, or a swimming pool.
That doesn't mean that you can cause harm by using something irresponsibly.

Wine is a sacrement and can sure **** up societies in big ways.

So your saying that if I have a glass of wine it will **** society up?

What the court actually ruled is that the church cannot SELL marijuana.

The court accepted that marijuana is part of the church services. The priests can't sell it, though.

I don't this that is what the court said. I think that the court said there will be no exemption from the laws because of religion. The two were charged for trafficking.

 

[taxslave]

The logic is sound, the logic is simple, the logic makes money, it makes lots of money. There is every logical reason. It depends on the observers perspective. Those observers make billions and billions and billions of dollars off their addicts and they don't want you happy cuz if you're happy you won't buy their junk and if you're cured they'll never see you again.(insert smile)

Where you ever find a pot "addict"? Been watching Reefer Madness?

I think the problem for the court and I've had a problem with this aspect too, is that if it's religion and a sacrament, then all parishioners are expected to take the sacrament. Children too, which is a problem in that in some children predisposed to psychosis can have an earlier onset of the mental illness that they otherwise would not have.

According to recent study that is.

So it is that there is no regulation within the church to keep Cannabis out of the hands of children and no spiritual reason to back that up. Exactly the opposite it seems and so the religious basis can only fail in getting an exemption from the law or change the laws.

Cannabis and Cannabis products should be legal because they are harmless, and because they can be regulated to keep then out of the hands of those who should not have them.

Do catholic kids get to drink wine?

 

[petros]

So your saying that if I have a glass of wine it will **** society up?

Will a joint? Booze is a great way to set off mental health issues in a kid too. If you looked it up you'd find oodles of info. It's worse than pot.

Do catholic kids get to drink wine?

Yup.

 

[Unforgiven]

Will a joint? Booze is a great way to set off mental health issues in a kid too. If you looked it up you'd find oodles of info. It's worse than pot.

This is why kids aren't allowed to buy alcohol. Wine is already legal so there is no question about it's use. Cannabis on the other hand is illegal and so attempting to get it removed from the books as an illegal substance condemned as harmful, is to keep it out of the hands of the kiddies.

This doesn't do that at all.

 

[petros]

Wine is illegal for kids as equally as weed is and on a harm scale alcohol wins by a lanslide in bad for your health category.

 

[mentalfloss]

Not if you're a vodka-baller..

 

[Praxius]

I think the problem for the court and I've had a problem with this aspect too, is that if it's religion and a sacrament, then all parishioners are expected to take the sacrament. Children too, which is a problem in that in some children predisposed to psychosis can have an earlier onset of the mental illness that they otherwise would not have.

According to recent study that is.

So it is that there is no regulation within the church to keep Cannabis out of the hands of children and no spiritual reason to back that up. Exactly the opposite it seems and so the religious basis can only fail in getting an exemption from the law or change the laws.

Cannabis and Cannabis products should be legal because they are harmless, and because they can be regulated to keep then out of the hands of those who should not have them.

While I agreed with some of what you wrote, I found a few contradictions.

You mention how a study talks about smoking weed can screw up a kid's brain..... but at the bottom you justify weed being legal because it's harmless..... you can't have one and the other. I don't agree with kids smoking pot, or smoking tobacco, or drinking coffee or energy drinks for that matter, but claiming they're harmless products and then saying they should be regulated to be kept out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them is a bit confusing...... afterall, if they're harmless, anybody and their dog should be able to use them.

The second thing I saw that I found odd, was that you referenced their pot use in the church as a sacrament...... thus everybody in the church should be using it, including children.

....... how many children do you see go up to drink the wine in christian churches? When I was a wee lad going to our local Roman Catholic church, you were not allowed to eat the bread until you were 8 years old...... my memory is hazy today about the details, so I don't know the rules about children drinking the wine (but it does contain alcohol)...... for the record, I never drank the wine myself, and I can't remember seeing any children underage drinking the wine either.

^ Thus the same could be applied to this church's beliefs, in that they can set an age limit for whom their sacrament is for.

Oh and in the churches I went to, nobody was forced to eat the bread or drink the wine...... and there was nobody being kicked out if they didn't.

 

[Unforgiven]

Wine is illegal for kids as equally as weed is and on a harm scale alcohol wins by a lanslide in bad for your health category.

Come on, a sip of wine on Sunday isn't going to hurt anyone in Church.
Put away the extremism and work at a rational approach to legalization.

 

[Praxius]

No I mean they can suffer early on set of mental illness.

Well it's best to catch it early they say ;-)

Come on, a sip of wine on Sunday isn't going to hurt anyone in Church.
Put away the extremism and work at a rational approach to legalization.

And a puff off a joint isn't going to hurt anybody either.....

A sip or a chug of wine, or a puff of weed is irrelevant..... it's underage drinking..... it's underage substance abuse...... and if little kids are allowed to bypass the underage drinking laws because of Christian religious beliefs..... then I don't see any reason why the argument about kids smoking pot due to religious beliefs should be valid.

You're excusing one action and finger wagging another which are both in the same group.

Not if you're a vodka-baller..

^ Proof that idiots are born everyday.

 

[Unforgiven]

While I agreed with some of what you wrote, I found a few contradictions.

You mention how a study talks about smoking weed can screw up a kid's brain..... but at the bottom you justify weed being legal because it's harmless..... you can't have one and the other. I don't agree with kids smoking pot, or smoking tobacco, or drinking coffee or energy drinks for that matter, but claiming they're harmless products and then saying they should be regulated to be kept out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them is a bit confusing...... afterall, if they're harmless, anybody and their dog should be able to use them.

Good point and thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

The study say heavy use by adolescents through to early adulthood who have a propensity for psychosis may have an earlier onset that they would otherwise.

So when you take that into context, someone from say 12 to 19 who has a family history of mental illness has a higher risk of developing some form of mental illness earlier than they would. It's coming, not if but when.
Heavy use meaning many joints per week consistently over a long period of time.

I know of kids who have been smoking Cannabis for years and they are just young adults now. Only a few that are heavy users. None that have a history of mental illness. For them, it is harmless as it is for me and most other people who use Cannabis regularly.

So it is harmless if used responsibly which is to say under a regulated and moderate way.
But that doesn't mean that there is no possible way to hurt yourself if you go out of your way to use it and hurt yourself with it.

The same could be said about a nice comfy bed.

The second thing I saw that I found odd, was that you referenced their pot use in the church as a sacrament...... thus everybody in the church should be using it, including children.

....... how many children do you see go up to drink the wine in christian churches? When I was a wee lad going to our local Roman Catholic church, you were not allowed to eat the bread until you were 8 years old...... my memory is hazy today about the details, so I don't know the rules about children drinking the wine (but it does contain alcohol)...... for the record, I never drank the wine myself, and I can't remember seeing any children underage drinking the wine either.

^ Thus the same could be applied to this church's beliefs, in that they can set an age limit for whom their sacrament is for.

Oh and in the churches I went to, nobody was forced to eat the bread or drink the wine...... and there was nobody being kicked out if they didn't.

I don't know, I don't go to Church anymore. When I did when I was younger, I was offered the sacrament along with everyone else I assume and it seems to me that children took it as well. Understand that it was many many years ago.

It would seem to me that if you are making a religious connection to something as a sacrament that brings people closer to God in your belief then everyone would be included who wanted to be included. I have no idea if this church do that or not. I don't subscribe to the notion that Cannabis should be exempted from the laws on the basis of religion.

I don't think much of any organized religion for that matter.

Well it's best to catch it early they say ;-)

Not in this case.

And a puff off a joint isn't going to hurt anybody either.....

I agree but only those of the age of majority should be able to make that call for themselves after they have the knowledge of the drug.

A sip or a chug of wine, or a puff of weed is irrelevant..... it's underage drinking..... it's underage substance abuse...... and if little kids are allowed to bypass the underage drinking laws because of Christian religious beliefs..... then I don't see any reason why the argument about kids smoking pot due to religious beliefs should be valid.

Context is everything. Abuse is bad, but simple use isn't abuse. Kids, though often clever little people, usually don't have the understanding and forethought to make an educated decision about drugs and alcohol among other things and so should be restricted to adults only.

Should a parent choose to teach responsible use in their own home to their own kids, I have no issue with that as long as it's responsible.

You're excusing one action and finger wagging another which are both in the same group.

No it's about context and there a fine line here, but a line none the less.

^ Proof that idiots are born everyday.

Well at some point you expect people to get hit by a bus or fall in a hole. It's natures way in life's grand parade.