Canadians want better health care without more taxes: poll

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
I'm surprised its that low...

... and with the constant tirades from the medical professionals' lobby-groups its not really surprising that the public is taking their stance that there is money to be made in correcting inefficiencies in the system. Its classic propaganda technique, that we saw in the Bush campaign to garner domestic support prior to invading Iraq (the whole "Saddam helped stage 9/11") or the Canadian Left's constant "the CPC/Reform/Alliance have a hidden agenda" statements. I'm not saying that there aren't inefficiencies in our health care system that can be eliminated and save some money, but I don't think they are as many as the doctors and nurses claim.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
I'm certainly not prepared to pay more for something I rarely use. Not not mention the fact that in Ontario, we already pay a Health Care fee yearly, deducted straight off my pay check.

There are other solutions to the problems besides raising taxes. Allowing more private sector options is one idea, cutbacks in non-essential procedures too, or reallocation of tax revenue into health care.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
1,330
2
38
The World
Yes indeed, cut back on "non-essential" procedures.

My paternal grandmother died as a direct result of delaying a "non-essential" surgery. She had an abdominal hernia, which was not considered to be life threatening, so they put her on the waiting list. Her intestine pushed through the hole (a hernia is a weakness or hole in the muscles of an area). The muscles then tightened up around the intestines, shutting off the blood flow.

The result was that she developed gangrene, and died from it. All because someone decided that hernia's were not all that important in the greater scheme of things.

That's the problem when government controls medical care. Someone that has no medical training can prevent others from receiving medical care.

Because of what happened to my grandmother, I will fight against the Obama Health Care laws, and anything else that puts the government in charge of MY health care.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Or, 61% of us want to see things better managed.

That too but it would mean laying off scads of administrators, then you will hear even more screaming. I think there needs to be a combination of both. Health care is still pretty cheap. like $108 a month for a family. Take your family for supper in a restaurant and you'll pay that or more. My health is my most important asset and I'm willing to pay accordingly to maintain it. :smile:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
Because of what happened to my grandmother, I will fight against the Obama Health Care laws, and anything else that puts the government in charge of MY health care.

Unless you're one of a really few people paying directly out of pocket you still likely have someone with no medical training in charge of your health care. insurance is insurance.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
I don't know what I named the thread but I'm sure I put something on here just a brief time ago where the doctors have stated they have a plan for things to be managed better and where they too feel the system is being highly mis-managed. Maybe I just added it to someone else's or maybe it's just BC doctors.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
it's not just BC doctors VanIsle. I know plenty of docs and nurses whose stories about mismanagement would make your hair curl.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
I don't know what I named the thread but I'm sure I put something on here just a brief time ago where the doctors have stated they have a plan for things to be managed better and where they too feel the system is being highly mis-managed. Maybe I just added it to someone else's or maybe it's just BC doctors.

Doctors tend to do that. It's called being protective. There was a list published recently showing B.C. doctors salaries last year. I checked out some doctors that I know and a salary between $300 and $400 thousand seems to be the norm and that is for G.P.s. I think all their operating expenses come out of that, so I'm not sure it's out of line, but on the other hand they are not starving. I think the main thing we have to face is we have to do more at looking after our own health. :smile:
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
Yes indeed, cut back on "non-essential" procedures.

My paternal grandmother died as a direct result of delaying a "non-essential" surgery. She had an abdominal hernia, which was not considered to be life threatening, so they put her on the waiting list. Her intestine pushed through the hole (a hernia is a weakness or hole in the muscles of an area). The muscles then tightened up around the intestines, shutting off the blood flow.

The result was that she developed gangrene, and died from it. All because someone decided that hernia's were not all that important in the greater scheme of things.

That's the problem when government controls medical care. Someone that has no medical training can prevent others from receiving medical care.

Because of what happened to my grandmother, I will fight against the Obama Health Care laws, and anything else that puts the government in charge of MY health care.
I'm sure they will give YOU the personal option of paying through the nose and going to a private clinic.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
That too but it would mean laying off scads of administrators, then you will hear even more screaming. I think there needs to be a combination of both. Health care is still pretty cheap. like $108 a month for a family. Take your family for supper in a restaurant and you'll pay that or more. My health is my most important asset and I'm willing to pay accordingly to maintain it. :smile:

You already pay for it though, how much is enough?
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
Doctors tend to do that. It's called being protective. There was a list published recently showing B.C. doctors salaries last year. I checked out some doctors that I know and a salary between $300 and $400 thousand seems to be the norm and that is for G.P.s. I think all their operating expenses come out of that, so I'm not sure it's out of line, but on the other hand they are not starving. I think the main thing we have to face is we have to do more at looking after our own health. :smile:

For GP's, typically 1/2 of the income goes to office expenses and staff, right off the top.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
it's not just BC doctors VanIsle. I know plenty of docs and nurses whose stories about mismanagement would make your hair curl.
I fully believe you. I just meant that the article I posted (read) may have been put out there by doctors in BC but it did say a group of doctors which could have meant doctors from anywhere.

Doctors tend to do that. It's called being protective. There was a list published recently showing B.C. doctors salaries last year. I checked out some doctors that I know and a salary between $300 and $400 thousand seems to be the norm and that is for G.P.s. I think all their operating expenses come out of that, so I'm not sure it's out of line, but on the other hand they are not starving. I think the main thing we have to face is we have to do more at looking after our own health. :smile:
Certainly their expenses come right off the top. The clinic I go to houses a lot more doctors then it does staff. There are between 1 and 2 people at the front desk. If you don't already know where your doctor is in the building, they tell you which area to go to. I know where to go. When I get to the area where my doctor is, there is one person behind a glassed off window. I tell her who I am and who I am there to see. She says - take a seat. I see her take my typed sheet and place it on one of the office doors my doctor uses. She doesn't seem to do too much more than that. Sometimes someone who works in the bldg. comes to speak to her and sometimes the phone rings but not often. New appts. are booked at the entry to the bldg which houses a pharmacy, a blood testing site, some pyschologists and even a physio-therapist. It's a two story bldg. and a very busy place but in every case, staff is at a minimum. Most of the doctors there also work in a clinic downtown. It's a horrible old bldg that gives me the creeps when I enter it. It's bigger then the clinic I usually attend which is closer to my home by far but it's very very old and dark and dingy looking. There is always at least 2 staff members behind their front counter and sometimes 3. They too send you to an "area". Finding it is something else! Not enough staff and not enough directions. The bldg. has corridors everywhere. One receptionist handles each area and you better be sure to check that you are in the right one! I feel like I am in an underground bldg. without windows. I had to go there for my wrist surgery but other than that, I avoid it entirely. They don't spend money on extra staff and the old bldg. they work out of had to have paid for itself about 25 yrs. ago. I realize there are more expenses then that but for the most part, do they have anymore expenses than any other business?

For GP's, typically 1/2 of the income goes to office expenses and staff, right off the top.
Did you know that many of them send their work out to be worked on by some person who works from home? For all you know, your next door neighbour could be typing up your file and know all there is to know about you medically speaking. My son's next door neighbour is one of those people.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
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Location, Location
Did you know that many of them send their work out to be worked on by some person who works from home? For all you know, your next door neighbour could be typing up your file and know all there is to know about you medically speaking. My son's next door neighbour is one of those people.

Typing up my file? My file at my GP's office is handwritten notes. Of the 15 or 20 GPs that I know personally, none of them use electronic files. Not a single one. Even the ones who have spouses in the IT industry use handwritten charts.

If your son's next door neighbor ever says one word about the medical information they are handling to anyone other than their employer, they are committing a crime, and could be charged.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
I suspect the system could be run more cheaply if less of the health care system was privatized. There are far too many for profit businesses supplying their services to the health care system, all at the taxpayer's expense.

What needs to be done is for the various governments to look at these private health care providers and see if they really do save the system money, which is a claim that most of them make. Those that do not should be replaced with government-run services.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
Typing up my file? My file at my GP's office is handwritten notes. Of the 15 or 20 GPs that I know personally, none of them use electronic files. Not a single one. Even the ones who have spouses in the IT industry use handwritten charts.

If your son's next door neighbor ever says one word about the medical information they are handling to anyone other than their employer, they are committing a crime, and could be charged.
I'm sure she would never say a word. She's a very honest person but because she is, doesn't mean everyone is. I haven't been to a doctor in years that used hand written notes other than jotting down a few things while I sit in his office. Every doctor in the clinic I go to has a computer sitting right on their desk. Even prescriptions are printed off electronically and then signed. My doctor does not open a paper file up when I go to see him, he opens his electronic file on me. If I ask him about something from a few months back, he scrolls through my file just like we would scroll through a thread here. It might appear they use hand written charts but I bet if you ask, all your "stuff" is typed up and stored via computer.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
it's not just BC doctors VanIsle. I know plenty of docs and nurses whose stories about mismanagement would make your hair curl.

AFter a life time in the workforce, I've come to the conclusion the vast majority of people (myself included) are bitchers at times. Doctors and nurses are no different (maybe they are worse because some of them were born with a silver spoon in their mouths) Probably 1% of bitching is about something that is a threat to life or limb. Maybe if the other 99% quit crying "wolf", then the serious stuff could be dealt with a whole lot faster and more economically because good money wouldn't be spent to sort out the whining. We are the most prosperous society in one of the richest countries in the world, suck it up. sometimes you are going to have to sit in the waiting room at E.R. suffering with pain for an hour. :smile:

I'm sure she would never say a word. She's a very honest person but because she is, doesn't mean everyone is. I haven't been to a doctor in years that used hand written notes other than jotting down a few things while I sit in his office. Every doctor in the clinic I go to has a computer sitting right on their desk. Even prescriptions are printed off electronically and then signed. My doctor does not open a paper file up when I go to see him, he opens his electronic file on me. If I ask him about something from a few months back, he scrolls through my file just like we would scroll through a thread here. It might appear they use hand written charts but I bet if you ask, all your "stuff" is typed up and stored via computer.

Same with my new doc in Vernon. Just as well- doctor's handwriting is atrocious by nature.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Canadians want better health care without more taxes: poll

I guess 61% of us want something for nothing. It doesn't require rocket science to figure out that won't work. :lol:

How do you figure that? The opening paragraph says Canadians want to identify inefficiencies. Becoming more efficient is not something for nothing.

That's the problem when government controls medical care. Someone that has no medical training can prevent others from receiving medical care. \

That's not unique to single payer government funded health care. There's plenty of examples out there of insurance adjusters doing the same thing. And they are not trained medically.