US thinking of ending Cuban Embargo...

[Chiliagon]

U.S. ending economic embargo on Cuba still "way down the road": Obama aide

+-08:54, April 20, 2009

It is still "way down the road" for the United States to end its economic embargo on Cuba, despite the recent softening of rhetoric between the two countries ,said a White House economic aide on Sunday.

"That's way down the road, and it's going to depend on what Cuba did, Cuba does going forward," said Lawrence Summers, U.S. President Barack Obama's top advisor, at a NBC TV program.

He noted that any substantial changes to the U.S.-Cuba economic relationship would be "decided on the basis of Cuba's behavior," and on the basis of the steps that the Cubans choose to take and not to take "in terms of their policies in this hemisphere."

The decisions made by the Obama administration on Cuba "are really going to be grounded in what's best for the United States," he added.

His remarks cooled down the heat stirred by a recent remarkable change in tone between leaders of the two countries.

President Obama said on Friday while attending the Americas Summit in Trinidad and Tobago that he looked forward to the ice-breaking of the half-century of hostility between the United States and Cuba.

"Let me be clear: I am not interested in talking for the sake of talking. But I do believe that we can move U.S.-Cuban relations in a new direction," he said.

"I am prepared to have my administration engage with the Cuban government on a wide range of issues -- from drugs, to migration and economic issues, to human rights, free speech and democratic reform," he added.

Meanwhile, Cuban leader Raul Castro said in response to the U.S. appeal: "We are open, whenever they want, to discussing everything: human rights, freedom of the press, political prisoners -- everything they want to discuss."




I for one hope it happens.

but i hope Cuba does NOT allow all the American companies to just come right in and stake claim. Otherwise Cuba will lose it's uniquness..

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Cuba is more like China, they are not going to let American laissez-faire capitalism ravage the country like it did in Russia after the collapse of communism in 1990. It will be managed, hopefully for the benefit of Cubans, not just the ruling communist party in Havana.

It is not insignificant that China resisted the "shock treatment" that American capitalism wanted to inflict on it. But then with the great recession in the US recently, runaway US capitalism is on the skids. Cuba is an undemocratic country but the people need a chance for better lives and Cuban CP might allow this to happen bit by bit.

 

[EagleSmack]

I can't wait until us Yanks can flood the beaches and hotels.

Cuba is more like China, they are not going to let American laissez-faire capitalism ravage the country like it did in Russia after the collapse of communism in 1990. It will be managed, hopefully for the benefit of Cubans, not just the ruling communist party in Havana.

Dream on.

It is not insignificant that China resisted the "shock treatment" that American capitalism wanted to inflict on it. But then with the great recession in the US recently, runaway US capitalism is on the skids. Cuba is an undemocratic country but the people need a chance for better lives and Cuban CP might allow this to happen bit by bit.

Cuba is not China just as the Soviet Union was not China. Different cultures and economic capabilities. I believe that once the Castro's lose grip the whole thing gives way.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I can't wait until us Yanks can flood the beaches and hotels.

Dream on.

Cuba is not China just as the Soviet Union was not China. Different cultures and economic capabilities. I believe that once the Castro's lose grip the whole thing gives way.

Just let the US move in and make it the 51st state? Not likely.

Russians are a grandioise people and want to be great, they bought the American dream BS. Cuba on the other hand is an average sized country with perhaps more modest dreams. More likely they will copy Hungary, but then they might be like Venezuela. But a sudden collapse? Such a terrible thought that will bring greater hardship to the island.

 

[Bar Sinister]

About time. US hostility toward Cuba is probably the primary reason the Castro regime has managed to stay in power for so long. Had the Americans approached Cuba in the same manner as Britain and Canada the promised free elections in Cuba would probably have occurred long ago. Instead, Castro and his cronies were able to use the threat of a US invasion of Cuba and the hardships created by the US embargo to maintain control of the Cuban population. Of course the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the US right will jump all over this proposed display of common sense.

 

[EagleSmack]

Just let the US move in and make it the 51st state? Not likely.

Russians are a grandioise people and want to be great, they bought the American dream BS. Cuba on the other hand is an average sized country with perhaps more modest dreams. More likely they will copy Hungary, but then they might be like Venezuela. But a sudden collapse? Such a terrible thought that will bring greater hardship to the island.

Oh I never meant making Cuba a 51st state. The only talk I ever heard about incorporating Cuba into a country was a couple of Canadians in here years ago stating that Cuba would be very happy giving up their independence and become a provice of Canada. The reasons they stated was that many Canadians vacation on the island and of course all Cubans love Canadians. As well as Canadians needing a warm weather province.

Of course I jumped in and said it was arrogant to think that Cubans would give up their Revolution to become permanent cabana boys and cocktail waitresses for Canadian tourists.

What I am saying is that once the Castros lose power the bottom will fall out. Then again a new dictator may come in and keep the status quo and they can remain the way they are.

Instead, Castro and his cronies were able to use the threat of a US invasion of Cuba and the hardships created by the US embargo to maintain control of the Cuban population.

Exactly. That is why even though the Obama Administration has reached out to Cuba, the Castros need this embargo to continue so they can continue as is. There is finally an administration that wants to start putting this foolishness to rest and the it is Castro who is unwilling. As I said...he needs to blame the embargo for all of their hardships to remain in power.

 

[Machjo]

The quickest way for the US to promote change in Cuba would in fact be to promote more exchange of ideas between Americans and Cubans at the grass roots. This would mean allowing for transit, travel, student, business and work visas between the two countries with as few restrictions as possible, along with more open internet connections, regardless of reciprocity. To isolate the Cuban people makes them even more dependent on the Cuban regime. What is the US administration thinking, if it is even thinking at all?

For the US administration to make the exchange of ideas between Cuban and US nationals even more difficult makes its true intentions suspicious at best.

About time. US hostility toward Cuba is probably the primary reason the Castro regime has managed to stay in power for so long. Had the Americans approached Cuba in the same manner as Britain and Canada the promised free elections in Cuba would probably have occurred long ago. Instead, Castro and his cronies were able to use the threat of a US invasion of Cuba and the hardships created by the US embargo to maintain control of the Cuban population. Of course the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the US right will jump all over this proposed display of common sense.

Agreed overall. I don't know if it would have automatically meant democracy as you seem to suggest, but at least more respect for human rights, which would already be a step in the right direction.

Personally I think no embargo or economic sanction of a country ought ever to include people. If you want to prevent the import and export of gods to and from Cuba, fair enough. But to prevent people from going to Cuba is essentially the government trying to social engineer personal relations between Cubans and Americans.

 

[EagleSmack]

The quickest way for the US to promote change in Cuba would in fact be to promote more exchange of ideas between Americans and Cubans at the grass roots. This would mean allowing for transit, travel, student, business and work visas between the two countries with as few restrictions as possible, along with more open internet connections, regardless of reciprocity. To isolate the Cuban people makes them even more dependent on the Cuban regime. What is the US administration thinking, if it is even thinking at all?

For the US administration to make the exchange of ideas between Cuban and US nationals even more difficult makes its true intentions suspicious at best.


.

I would agree with you if you said during past Administrations but the Obama Administration has made overtures to the Cuban govt. Do you think the Castros want a free and open exchange of ideas between it's people and Americans? I don't. The embargo and isolation from the US ensures the safety of the Cuban government. Castro has an excuse for the nations hardships, he blames it all on the US and the isolation ensures that his word alone is heard.

 

[Machjo]

I would agree with you if you said during past Administrations but the Obama Administration has made overtures to the Cuban govt. Do you think the Castros want a free and open exchange of ideas between it's people and Americans? I don't. The embargo and isolation from the US ensures the safety of the Cuban government. Castro has an excuse for the nations hardships, he blames it all on the US and the isolation ensures that his word alone is heard.

Then let me ask you a question: are US citizens free according to US law to travel freely to Cuba? And also according to US law, are Cubans free to travel to the US?

To the best of my knowledge (and please correct me if I'm wrong), US law does allow Cubans to travel to the US but not US citizens to travel to Cuba.
And unless I'm mistaken, Cuba's laws essentially parallel those of the US (i.e. US citizens are free to travel to Cuba but Cubans are not free to travel to the US).

Now of course many US citizens simply fly to Cuba via a third country such as Canada or Mexico, but that is not in accordance with US laws.

If Obama were serious about promoting a healthy exchange of ideas between US and Cuban citizens at the grassroots, he'd immediately grant US citizens the freedom to travel to Cuba without restrictions.

Now personally I'd say why not just lift the embargo altogether, but if that's asking too much, then why not at least exempt humans from the embargo.

 

[YukonJack]

To all those who have been vacationing in Cuba a few questions:

Beside the cheap prices, made possible by cruel opression of human rights and slave labour what can Cuba offer that other places can't?

Did you feel comfortable knowing that decent Cubans still suffer under the same Communist rules that the former Soviet countries managed to liberate themselves from? Did you know or care? Was saving a few lousy bucks worth your soul? If you like Cuba so much, would you like to live like a non-Communist, everyday Cuban?
While you were there did you ever freely talk to anyone on the street? Could you?
Since you were there, did you ever wonder why there are no Cubans vacationing in or visiting Canada?

Is your conscience clear?

 

[EagleSmack]

Then let me ask you a question: are US citizens free according to US law to travel freely to Cuba? And also according to US law, are Cubans free to travel to the US?

To the best of my knowledge (and please correct me if I'm wrong), US law does allow Cubans to travel to the US but not US citizens to travel to Cuba.
And unless I'm mistaken, Cuba's laws essentially parallel those of the US (i.e. US citizens are free to travel to Cuba but Cubans are not free to travel to the US).

Now of course many US citizens simply fly to Cuba via a third country such as Canada or Mexico, but that is not in accordance with US laws.

If Obama were serious about promoting a healthy exchange of ideas between US and Cuban citizens at the grassroots, he'd immediately grant US citizens the freedom to travel to Cuba without restrictions.

Now personally I'd say why not just lift the embargo altogether, but if that's asking too much, then why not at least exempt humans from the embargo.

Oh no there is still an embargo and travel restrictions and all that. What i am saying is that the Obama Administration has reached out to Cuba and have been rebuffed by the Castro Regime. The Castro Regime needs this embargo. The Obama Administration has been clear that they want to sit down with the Cuban Govt. and start the process but as I said, the Cubans have rebuffed them.

Without the embargo and isolation, Castro has nothing to blame the woes of Cuba on.

If Obama were serious about promoting a healthy exchange of ideas between US and Cuban citizens at the grassroots, he'd immediately grant US citizens the freedom to travel to Cuba without restrictions.

.

I doubt that Castro would want to open up that avenue. What makes you think that Castro all of a sudden and IMMEDIATELY wants his hotels and beaches flooded with Yanks?

 

[Tonington]

Oh I never meant making Cuba a 51st state. The only talk I ever heard about incorporating Cuba into a country was a couple of Canadians in here years ago stating that Cuba would be very happy giving up their independence and become a provice of Canada. The reasons they stated was that many Canadians vacation on the island and of course all Cubans love Canadians. As well as Canadians needing a warm weather province.

Are you sure it was Cuba? I know there was talk of annexing the Turks and Caicos.

 

[Machjo]

Oh no there is still an embargo and travel restrictions and all that. What i am saying is that the Obama Administration has reached out to Cuba and have been rebuffed by the Castro Regime. The Castro Regime needs this embargo. The Obama Administration has been clear that they want to sit down with the Cuban Govt. and start the process but as I said, the Cubans have rebuffed them.

Without the embargo and isolation, Castro has nothing to blame the woes of Cuba on.

So why would the US need to consult with Cuba to exempt people from the US embargo seeing that the embargo is a creation of US law that has nothing to do with Cuban law? What? Would Obama need Castro's vote?

Why could the US not unanimously amend the current embargo to exclude people effective immediately? Then the Cuban regime would be free to react to that as it sees fit.

Last I checked, the US does not need to consult with Cuba to amend its own laws.

Again, I'm not saying I support teh embargo at all, but one would think that it would be reasonable at the very least for the government not to stand in the way of interpersonal relationships between US and Cuban citizens. This is an issue between the US and Cuban governments and neither government should drag its people into it. Again, if you want an embargo on the import or export of goods to and from Cuba, that's different. But to place the embargo on humans is a little despicable, no?

Are you sure it was Cuba? I know there was talk of annexing the Turks and Caicos.

Under the condition of mutual consent of course, and from what I understand, they thought we could keep our weather to ourselves thank you very much.

 

[EagleSmack]

Are you sure it was Cuba? I know there was talk of annexing the Turks and Caicos.

Positive. That was another talk.The Turks/Caicos.

These two chaps were talking about Cuba once Castro dies and the Cubans willingly becoming a Canadian Province. it was right about the time Castro started getting sick awhile back.

 

[Machjo]

I doubt that Castro would want to open up that avenue. What makes you think that Castro all of a sudden and IMMEDIATELY wants his hotels and beaches flooded with Yanks?

If the US administration legally prohibits US citizens from traveling to Cuba while the Cuban regime legally allows US citizens to go to Cuba, that makes the US look bad from a PR standpoint. Now if the US lifts the embargo, if not on goods then at least on people, and the Cuban regime reacts by suddenly no longer welcoming US citizens to Cuba, then Cuba loses from a PR standpoint. Why is the US so interested in granting Cuba a PR victory?

 

[Tonington]

Positive. That was another talk.The Turks/Caicos.

These two chaps were talking about Cuba once Castro dies and the Cubans willingly becoming a Canadian Province. it was right about the time Castro started getting sick awhile back.

Ahh, gotcha. Loons.

 

[Machjo]

And Eaglesmack. I think it's just common sense that if US law prohibits US citizens from going to Cuba while Cuban law allows US citizens to go to Cuba, it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure out who does not want US citizens to go to Cuba. What's there to hide over in Cuba?

 

[petros]

I can't wait until us Yanks can flood the beaches and hotels.



Dream on.

They are already there. They fly from Canada or Mexico and go there because there are few other Americans.

 

[Machjo]

They are already there. They fly from Canada or Mexico and go there because there are few other Americans.

Yes, but those Americans are there illegally according to US law, not Cuban law.

 

[petros]

Too bad for US law. Well then if US is going to open up I'm going to go down and buy up as many 1950's Cars parts as I can. I saw some really sweet 5-6-7 Chevies and cool Fords.