My Thoughts on the Controversial Dispute over the Sinking of South Korean Warship

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freetalking

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Jun 21, 2010
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[FONT=HY&#54756]Here is something I jotted down after watching a press release(July 9th) made by two professors, Seung-Hun Lee and Jae-Jong Suh, as they raised questions regarding to the sinking of the South Korean Warship, the "Cheonan".[/FONT]

[FONT=HY&#54756]After the Cheonan warship sank in March 26th, many countries(including the US, Sweden, and Australia) sent professionals to form a Joint Investigation Group to determine the cause of sinking. The JIG has concluded that North Korea was indeed behind the attack. And for some reason three professors, Seung-Hun Lee, Jae-Jung Suh, and Pan-suck Yang are arguing that the investigation was done sloppy and requested that the South Korean government conduct a new investigation.[/FONT]

[FONT=HY&#54756](Any average college professor would normally react by submitting a academic rebuttal research paper but these two are playing as if they were celebrities calling on the press on their own. This I found quite amusing. Also, instead of submitting their research to somewhere more official, they posted it on their own private website.)[/FONT]

[FONT=HY&#54756]From what I know, to analyze the substances from the debris of the torpedo, you need substantial knowledge in chemical engineering as well as material engineering. The head of JIG, Professor Dok-Yong Yoon, received his material engineering MA and Ph.D from Harvard. On the other hand, Professor Lee teaches physics, Associate Professor Suh teaches politics and Professor Yang is a manager at a research lab. Not the experts we're looking for in this matter.[/FONT]

[FONT=HY&#54756]Also, logically speaking, saying the results by the JIG as false after conducting experiments in totally different conditions just sounds ridiculous to me. Why do they insist on the JIG's results to be flawed and not consider their own result to flawed? And what is with them using the media and bringing all this attention?[/FONT]

[FONT=HY&#54756]The last time I checked, Professors aren't politicians. I think they are overdoing what they are actually capable of and this is a very disappointing sight.[/FONT]
 
Colpy

Colpy

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earth_as_one said:
Makes sense that North Korea was responsible, considering the US and South Korea nearly sank a North Korean ship in November. Likely its a little tit for tat going on. How far back do you want to go?
The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - 'N.Korean Officer' Says North Sank the Cheonan
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Tit for Tat???!!!!

In November of 2009 a North Korean warship trespassed into South Korean waters and opened fire on a South Korean naval vessel........the South Koreans returned fire very effectively, leaving the North's vessel heavily damaged.

First, and LEAST of all, the South did not sink the NK vessel, despite their obvious ability to have completed the task.

Secondly, the conflict in November was in South Korean waters.

Thirdly, the NORTH opened fire........

So, twice North Koreans invade South Korean territory and open fire on South Korean naval vessels........the first time they are defeated and withdraw, the second time they manage to kill dozens of South Korean sailors.

And you call that "tit for Tat"

No wonder it is difficult to take you seriously!

If we and our allies had a brain between us, we would execute some regime change in North Korea.

Might put the damned Chinese on notice: no more Mr. Nice Guy.
 
petros

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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If we and our allies had a brain between us, we would execute some regime change in North Korea.

Might put the damned Chinese on notice: no more Mr. Nice Guy.
Click to expand...
China will be brokering a deal soon enough. They need to be able to utilize the Hyundai ship yards if they want to keep moving the amount of goods that future trade demands.
 
earth_as_one

earth_as_one

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Colpy said:
Tit for Tat???!!!!

In November of 2009 a North Korean warship trespassed into South Korean waters and opened fire on a South Korean naval vessel........the South Koreans returned fire very effectively, leaving the North's vessel heavily damaged.

First, and LEAST of all, the South did not sink the NK vessel, despite their obvious ability to have completed the task.

Secondly, the conflict in November was in South Korean waters.

Thirdly, the NORTH opened fire........

So, twice North Koreans invade South Korean territory and open fire on South Korean naval vessels........the first time they are defeated and withdraw, the second time they manage to kill dozens of South Korean sailors.

And you call that "tit for Tat"

No wonder it is difficult to take you seriously!

If we and our allies had a brain between us, we would execute some regime change in North Korea.

Might put the damned Chinese on notice: no more Mr. Nice Guy.
Click to expand...

Unlike you, I'm not so certain who did what to whom. I wasn't there. I didn't witness this event personally. I listened to both sides' claims about the incident and looked at the disputed area. Knowing the games played by all sides along this border, I believe pretty much anything is possible.

Unlike you, I don't trust the US or the South Koreans to admit they unnecessarily fired on a North Korean ship. I also don't trust the North Koreans to admit they deliberately provoked the US.

The only undisputed fact is only that a North Korean patrol boat was heavily damaged in an incident called The Battle of Daecheong near the Northern Limit Line (a disputed area).

Considering how close the NLL is to the North Korean coast, its probable the NK patrol boat did cross the the NLL at one point. But it sounds like it was it heading back to North Korea and may have even been in undisputed North Korea waters at the time it was hit.

I know what the newspapers and wikipedia say about this incident and they aren't so certain as you about what happened.

North Koreans claimed they were attacked without provocation. The US claims the North Koreans crossed into South Korea waters after repeated warnings. Apparently those warnings also included opening fire on the North Koreans.

wiki
...The Battle of Daecheong was a skirmish between the South Korean and North Korean navies near the Northern Limit Line (NLL) on 10 November 2009 off Daecheong Island. A patrol boat from North Korea was seriously damaged while the navy of South Korea sustained no casualties.[2]...

Battle of Daecheong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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In this case, the word near could be interpreted as being inconclusive about the exact location of the NK patrol boat at the time it was hit.

Regarding the legitimacy of the Northern Limit Line:
....The line was unilaterally set by the U.S.-led United Nations military forces on August 30, 1953 after the United Nations Command and North Korea failed to reach an agreement.[2] It is not officially recognized by North Korea.[3] In particular, it is not included into the Armistice Agreement of 1953 between the two states. The line was originally drawn to prevent southern incursions into the north, however its role has since transformed to prevent North Korean ships heading south.[4]...

Northern Limit Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Funny how this undefined border became defined according to the Americans in favor of the South Koreans, while no one else recognizes it.

If you follow the link above, you can see see a map where the Americans unilaterally drew the NLL without North Korea's agreement. To me, it looks like an obvious land grab which also happens to be a rich fishing area.
Crab Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't see how anyone can say with certainty the North Koreans crossed the border into south Korea's waters with certainty, when the border is undefined and most reports only claim the incident occurred near the NLL.

The North Koreans have their version of events:
YONHAP NEWS

In this Telegraph report, both sides make different claims about what happened:
North and South Korea warships exchange fire - Telegraph

A Korean perception of the NLL:

...North Korea accepted the US control of the five islands. However, it asserted that it had the control over the waters surrounding the five islands...North Korea has never agreed to Clark’s northern limit line....

...On February 26, 1975, about 10 fishing boats from North Korea crossed Clark’s Northern Limit. South Korean warships attacked and sank a North Korean fishing boat. Park Chung Hee claimed that the Northern Limit had been in effect for over 20 years by then and hence it was a de facto legal line and his forces would defend it to death. On July 1, 1977, North Korea proclaimed a 200-nautical mile economic zone.

Clark’s Northern Limit is mere 3 nautical miles (5.5 km) from the nearest North Korean coast. It places severe limitation on North Korean warships in areas of the Hwang-hae-nam-do province. The North Korean port of Haeju is virtually shut off by Clark’s line. The rich crab fishing areas during May-June of every year lie just south of the Line and North and South Korean fishermen have waged friendly crab fishing war until the recent armed clash....

http://www.korea-is-one.org/spip.php?article943
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Like I said, I'm not so certain as you about what happened or the true location of the border in this area.

The North Koreans believe they were attacked without provocation and that's why they probably fired a torpedo at a South Korean ship patrolling in this disputed zone.

Until both sides agree where the border exists, the area is disputed and probably both sides should avoid it.

Also, I don't think its in Canada's interest to recognize borders just because they were unilaterally declared by the Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_areas_disputed_by_Canada_and_the_United_States
 
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