Time For Private Property Rights On Aboriginal Reserves

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Aboriginals reserves are bastions of conservatism where not much ever happens
and change is very slow to come by. Yet, the federal govt can't keep pumping
billions of dollars each year into them through the Dept of Indian Affairs and EI. Not to mention provincial govts spending many millions more on welfare.

Time for some reform and open up private property rights on reserves for aboriginals. They all use modern technology like the intenet anyways, time to use modern ideas like buying and selling property.


http://www.thestarphoenix.com/enter...Nations+development+expert/2767669/story.html

Property rights key to First Nations development: expert



By Bruce Johnstone, Saskatchewan News Network; Regina Leader-PostApril 6, 2010



First Nations need property rights to fully unlock the economic potential of their land and escape the vicious cycle of poverty and underdevelopment, University of Calgary Prof. Tom Flanagan said Monday.

"First Nations don't own the land on which they live. It's owned by the federal government," Flanagan told a luncheon hosted by the Frontier Centre for Public Policy.

"That's the root of the problem. This peculiar regime of property rights spelled out in the Indian Act makes it difficult to do things," said Flanagan, who has authored several books on Louis Riel, the Northwest Rebellion and aboriginal land claims.

Specifically, the Indian Act makes it difficult, if not impossible, to buy and sell property on a reserve without permission from the federal government and the band council, as well as a referendum of band members.

"So to do any major project turns into a lawyer's feast," said Flanagan, a well-known conservative political activist who served as Prime Minister Stephen Harper's political adviser and campaign manager.

As a result, economic development projects on reserve lands cost far more in both time and money than similar projects on non-reserve lands, according to Andre Le Dressay, who teaches economics at Thompson Rivers University in
Kamloops, B.C. He co-authored the book Beyond the Indian Act: Restoring Aboriginal Property Rights with Flanagan.

"When you compare an on-reserve development with an off-reserve development, it takes four to six times longer and costs four to six times more to do development on-reserve," said Le Dressay, who was born and raised in Regina.
Le Dressay, who is also director of Fiscal Realities, a B.C.-based consulting firm that advises First Nations on economic development projects, said some First Nations, such as the Nisga'a in B.C., are attempting to offer band members the right to purchase land on the reserve.

"Once that's complete, they will be the first indigenous community in the world to have done that," Le Dressay said. But the Nisga'a process has taken 30 years and has cost the band millions of dollars in legal fees and other costs.

What Flanagan and Le Dressay are proposing -- a separate piece of legislation that would accompany the Indian Act -- would allow First Nations to buy and sell reserve lands and, more importantly, borrow money using their title as collateral.

The proposal could work for any First Nation community in the country, Le Dressay said. Just looking at 68 First Nations in B.C., the increased land value, if 40 per cent their land was converted to fee simple ownership, would be $3.8 billion over 15 years.

"Think of what $3.8 billion would do, with respect to access to credit. It would . . . unleash a wave of entrepreneurism and opportunity," Le Dressay said.
Considering First Nations own 2.6 million hectares of land in Canada -- four times the size of P.E.I. -- the potential increase in land value would be astronomical, even if a fraction of the land was converted.

But that land would always remain on a First Nations reserve and be subject to First Nations jurisdiction. More importantly, it would be up to First Nations themselves to take advantage of the proposed legislation.

"It's an optional piece of legislation," Le Dressay said. "We hope that five or 10 First Nations take an interest in it, but we also hope that it will be like any other great idea. It'll start out small and grow into something great."

© Copyright (c) The StarPhoenix
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
So the Government is planning on fatning them up just so they can take it all back at a future date?

I'm suprised they do not have property rights. Who owns the land then?

Hmm..

They are owned by the federal govt, the minister can reduce them in size or expand them as he sees fit. Or rather, what is politically palateable.

Indians have a collective ownershop over reserves so change occurs hardly at all. Change must be agreed upon by most of the band, or at least influential families have to agree. Their property rights are not private property rights most Canadians have. Although off reserves they can buy land.

Reserves are your classic immoveable object.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
I always thought the Native Reserves were off limits to anyone except Natives.?:canada:

As far as my understanding of it goes, I always thought you had to be of native status to live on a reserve, or be married to a native on the reserve, or have special conditions applied where the members of the reserve determine if you're allowed to live on the reserve for whatever reason , for example, you're not native, but helped contribute a lot to the community in some way or your work involves being on the reserve often that it'd make sense for you to live there..... like some on-site doctor or something.

*shrugs*

I know very little about it myself.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
They were given what was then the worst of land. Funny how much a waterfront lot is worth now (Nipissing/Georgian Bay) and diamonds and oil have shown up elsewhere.


Sorta makes one question the wisdom of residential schools, eh?
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
They are often in the middle of nowhere, so why visit? They are generally not set up for tourism so they are not that keen on visitors.

Visiting and Living are two different things.

Pictou Landing is mostly a native reserve surrounded by non-native communities and the road going through connects to both.... I never had to go through a check point to drive through to get to the other side, determining my status or something.... and if you have friends who live on the reserve, I never heard of people never being allowed to visit them and hang out for a bit.

It's when you decide you want to move in and live there that the problems start.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Visiting and Living are two different things.

Pictou Landing is mostly a native reserve surrounded by non-native communities and the road going through connects to both.... I never had to go through a check point to drive through to get to the other side, determining my status or something.... and if you have friends who live on the reserve, I never heard of people never being allowed to visit them and hang out for a bit.

It's when you decide you want to move in and live there that the problems start.

Some reserves are in cities like the Squamish in Vancouver, which I'm sure non-aboriginals drive through hardly noticing where they have gone. They might because they look a little rundown. They are not exactly cities nor municipalities but have another status, which most Canadians ignore.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Aboriginals reserves are bastions of conservatism where not much ever happens
and change is very slow to come by. Yet, the federal govt can't keep pumping
billions of dollars each year into them through the Dept of Indian Affairs and EI. Not to mention provincial govts spending many millions more on welfare.

Time for some reform and open up private property rights on reserves for aboriginals. They all use modern technology like the intenet anyways, time to use modern ideas like buying and selling property.

They are often in the middle of nowhere, so why visit? They are generally not set up for tourism so they are not that keen on visitors.

Some reserves are in cities like the Squamish in Vancouver, which I'm sure non-aboriginals drive through hardly noticing where they have gone. They might because they look a little rundown. They are not exactly cities nor municipalities but have another status, which most Canadians ignore.
Before I take apart your posts, yet again, are there anymore uninformed generalizations you'd like make?
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Aboriginals should have the same property rights as rest of Canada where the government owns the mineral rights to the land and all buyers have the same rights as the rest of the people on the reserve no matter if they are aboriginal or not.

The only way to give them property rights is if they have a land claim settlement.

The Aboriginals can't have it both ways.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Aboriginals reserves are bastions of conservatism where not much ever happens
and change is very slow to come by. Yet, the federal govt can't keep pumping
billions of dollars each year into them through the Dept of Indian Affairs and EI. Not to mention provincial govts spending many millions more on welfare.

Time for some reform and open up private property rights on reserves for aboriginals. They all use modern technology like the intenet anyways, time to use modern ideas like buying and selling property.
Boy there are still a lot of people ill-informed. The Okanagan people have been doing quite well, actually. If they can do the real estate thing, they should boom even further. Right now there are only about half the Okanagans living on reserve anyway.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
I don't know about other provinces, but natives in BC have service stations, stores, apartment buildings (they rent to anyone they like, even palefaces lol), pubs, etc.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Before I take apart your posts, yet again, are there anymore uninformed generalizations you'd like make?

Pick apart my posts, oh the brilliance. Just watch the news for a few days and watch the squalor on many reserves. In most most kids in govt childcare distress are aboriginal, despite being much less than 10% of the population. Like in the US, when they talk of poor poeple they mean blacks, when we alk of poor people, we mean aboiginals, because its true.

Many reserves have no shops, no stores. Most are economically stagnant.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Pick apart my posts, oh the brilliance.
Actually, my 14 year old son could do it. It isn't as if the generalizations in you posts were formulated with critical thought or reason, let alone the facts.

Just watch the news for a few days and watch the squalor on many reserves.
Wow, you mean everything on the TV is absolute fact and encompasses everything about everything? I'll have to rethink my use of reality to formulate my opinions. Apparently the TV is the end all of sources.

In most most kids in govt childcare distress are aboriginal, despite being much less than 10% of the population.
Got any support for that?

Like in the US, when they talk of poor poeple they mean blacks, when we alk of poor people, we mean aboiginals, because its true.
Really? Any proof of this? Or is this just another absurd accusation.

Many reserves have no shops, no stores. Most are economically stagnant.
And that was our doing? Are you aware of some of the laws pertaining to commerce of Reserves? Are you aware that these laws are not across the board? Are you aware of some commerce on some reserves that are not only thriving, but expanding and employing Non Native peoples as well?

I'm sure you believe what you post. Unfortunately, I think the opinion expressed in your posts is based on something far more primal then fact. 3 Reserves within 1 hour of my house are proof of how you're way out to lunch. If I expand that drive to two hours, I can find 4 more. If I expand that to 3, I find 5 more. All of which I can take a rolling pictorial that will completely show your assertions to be blatantly false.

That is not to say there isn't crime, waste, sloth or poverty. I know full well there is. But being educated on the subject, I'm more then capable of separating simple minded generalizations from reality.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Actually, my 14 year old son could do it. It isn't as if the generalizations in you posts were formulated with critical thought or reason, let alone the facts.

Wow, you mean everything on the TV is absolute fact and encompasses everything about everything? I'll have to rethink my use of reality to formulate my opinions. Apparently the TV is the end all of sources.

Got any support for that?

Really? Any proof of this? Or is this just another absurd accusation.

And that was our doing? Are you aware of some of the laws pertaining to commerce of Reserves? Are you aware that these laws are not across the board? Are you aware of some commerce on some reserves that are not only thriving, but expanding and employing Non Native peoples as well?

I'm sure you believe what you post. Unfortunately, I think the opinion expressed in your posts is based on something far more primal then fact. 3 Reserves within 1 hour of my house are proof of how you're way out to lunch. If I expand that drive to two hours, I can find 4 more. If I expand that to 3, I find 5 more. All of which I can take a rolling pictorial that will completely show your assertions to be blatantly false.

That is not to say there isn't crime, waste, sloth or poverty. I know full well there is. But being educated on the subject, I'm more then capable of separating simple minded generalizations from reality.

I foudn this thread about the aboriginal man who let his children freeze in the snow. To say aboriginals don't have more social problems that require govt intervention than the general public is just babble.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/80337-accident-says-father-2-girls.html

So who are all those people at Main and Hastings in Vancouver? Are they all white?
Asking a lot of simple minded questions does no one no good.

Check out this CBC article stating that 585 of on reserve aboriginals are not graduating from university. Oh yeah, everything's great.

I recall seeing on TV how a young aboriginal man said he had to learn English when he came to Vancouver. Oh, yeah, everything's great. Then there's the prison population.

CBC News - Saskatchewan - Low aboriginal graduation rates a concern for all Canadians: report
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Pick apart my posts, oh the brilliance.
It doesn't require brilliance.
Just watch the news for a few days and watch the squalor on many reserves.
Or lots of clips of one area of one reserve.
In most most kids in govt childcare distress are aboriginal, despite being much less than 10% of the population.
Speak English, please. In most most kids?
Like in the US, when they talk of poor poeple they mean blacks, when we alk of poor people, we mean aboiginals, because its true.
lmao Funny that they don't say blacks or aboriginals then. I think most people when they say poor, they don't specify skin color and actually mean the poor as a group.

Many reserves have no shops, no stores. Most are economically stagnant.
How would you know? Have you got any research to back that up?

I think you just make a lot of claims from your opinion rather than claims of fact.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Look at the squalor in this reserve:








That's Vancouver's East End.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
It doesn't require brilliance.Or lots of clips of one area of one reserve. Speak English, please. In most most kids? lmao Funny that they don't say blacks or aboriginals then. I think most people when they say poor, they don't specify skin color and actually mean the poor as a group.

How would you know? Have you got any research to back that up?

I think you just make a lot of claims from your opinion rather than claims of fact.

You and the other guy are of the arrogant opinion that Canadians who are white shouldn't even be allowed to talk or think at all about aboriginals. Fat chance. Get a grip. Just keep paying and feel guilty forever. Time for reform.

Just punch in "aboriginals prison population" into google and tell me what you find. You will find about 5% of the population make up near half of the prison population. Not very good news.

Above: not 585, but 58% of aboriginals in Sask don't graduate.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
You and the other guy are of the arrogant opinion that Canadians who are white shouldn't even be allowed to talk or think at all about aboriginals.
Wrong. I don't need you to tell me what my opinion is, or even what it should be.
Fat chance. Get a grip.
lol You, too.
Just keep paying and feel guilty forever. Time for reform.
Then do something about it, don't just post drivel here at CanCon.

Just punch in "aboriginals prison population" into google and tell me what you find. You will find about 5% of the population make up near half of the prison population. Not very good news.
Post the link.

Above: not 585, but 58% of aboriginals in Sask don't graduate.
Ever wonder why?