Aboriginal Mafia Sell Cigarettes In Western Canada And Govt Yawns

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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There has to be one law for everyone in Canada. But there isn't. If you are a crown person, cop, work for ICBC and rip off customers, politicians, or aboriginal, the police treat you with kid gloves. My house is not off limits for the police, yet a house on an aboriginal reserve is. The police are corrupt because they are not enforcing the law without fear or favour.


"The cheap smokes are being manufactured in unlicensed factories on first nations reserves in Ontario, Quebec and New York state, then shipped by car, truck and motor home through Eastern Canada and increasingly into the West, particularly B.C. and Manitoba."

Contraband cigarettes make their way to Western Canada
Contraband cigarettes make their way to Western Canada



Cheap illegal smokes mean lost tax revenue, increased organized crime and easier access to tobacco for young people



By Barbara Yaffe, Vancouver SunApril 8, 2010



Contraband cigarettes, which account for nearly half the Quebec and Ontario markets, are starting to make their way into Western Canada.

Imperial Tobacco has labelled the illegal trade route the TransContraband Highway, and is calling on Ottawa to step up action against illegal cigarettes.

The cheap smokes are being manufactured in unlicensed factories on first nations reserves in Ontario, Quebec and New York state, then shipped by car, truck and motor home through Eastern Canada and increasingly into the West, particularly B.C. and Manitoba.

Just this year, RCMP raids in Manitoba, in Portage la Prairie and Brandon, turned up large quantities of smuggled cigarettes. In 2008, contraband cigarettes accounted for nearly four per cent of the market in

B.C., up from two per cent in 2007, according to Imperial's figures.
The B.C. problem is exacerbated by shipments of illegal tobacco products entering the province from China, said Eric Gagnon, spokesman for the Montreal-based company.

The cross-Canada problem is huge, and growing. Imperial estimates some 13 billion illegal cigarettes were sold to Canadians in 2008, up from 10 billion in 2007.
So, what's Imperial's interest in talking up this problem?
After all, why should Canadians care if the pedlars of death lose some of their market share (worth about $900 million a year)?

Well, every time someone buys an illegal bag of 200 cigarettes at $6 instead of paying, say, $90 for a legal carton in B.C., tax revenue is lost to government.
Contraband activity throughout the country translates into forgone federal and provincial tax revenue of about $2.4 billion a year.

It also supports organized crime and offers easy and affordable access to tobacco products for young people.

Canada has made strides in recent decades in getting citizens to abandon and avoid the unhealthy, addictive habit. Only 18 per cent of Canadians still smoke.
But the question is, will a proliferation of cheap cigarettes lead to more people smoking, with implications for health care costs?

The Canadian Cancer Society notes smoking levels had been dropping by one per cent annually -- until 2007 when the declines became far more incremental.
The society says on its web-site: "The main reason for the slowing decline has been the availability of cheap contraband cigarettes."

Imperial is urging the Harper government to make the problem a higher priority, to move beyond mere enforcement activity that takes place through the police seizures.

Of course, the fact the illegal products are being produced on native reserves makes the issue tricky. Can you imagine the feds attempting to shut down unlicensed manufacturing operations on native land?

Gagnon suggested Ottawa should hand over to the native manufacturers a portion of tax revenue from the legal cigarette market in exchange for their agreement to stop producing. But that sounds a lot like a bribe, or a reward for bad behaviour.
Another way the feds could put a dent in the illegal activity is by lowering taxes on cigarettes, which in B.C. -- after the July 1 imposition of the harmonized sales tax -- will total about $60 on a $96 carton.

Imperial tried to lobby the Campbell government to exempt cigarettes from the higher tax take that will result from the HST, but without success, said Gagnon, shaking his head.

And while Ottawa insists it's hard at work addressing the issue of illegal cigarettes -- pointing to the 2008 creation of a task force on illicit tobacco products-- Gagnon said the group has "done nothing to date."

Public Safety Canada's David Charbonneau noted the group will be working with the Americans on the matter because it involves cross-border activity.

byaffe@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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There has to be one law for everyone in Canada. But there isn't. If you are a crown person, cop, work for ICBC and rip off customers, politicians, or aboriginal, the police treat you with kid gloves. My house is not off limits for the police, yet a house on an aboriginal reserve is. The police are corrupt because they are not enforcing the law without fear or favour.
You bet...

I was recently stopped by the OPP, because someone reported that I had a huge sniper rifle in my car. When they asked me what was in my car, I told them straight out the list of contents, which didn't include a sniper rifle, but did include contraband smokes for my friends/customers...he didn't even bat an eye.

Given the fact i make 15 bucks on a carton, I can clear an easy 500 a week, tax free, on a good week. I like it when they don't care. By the way, it isn't illegal for me to sell them, it's illegal to move them across Province and International boundaries. I only sell name brands, so I support the issue you raise with those sweep up factories.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Meh, I got no issue with native smokes.

If there's such a big problem with losing out on taxes, maybe they shouldn't have raised them so high and become so damn reliant on those taxes for everything in the first place. The Government created the situation if you ask me.

Minors are able to get these smokes easily?

Clearly Minors are getting legit smokes from smoke shops quite easily too. Afterall, some idiot groups decided to try and ban flavored cigarillos because "They're marketed towards children." They also argued for hiding tobacco products so minors can't see them or be enticed in buying them (cuz they're so gullible afterall) ~ Besides being such a dumbass argument, they're basically admitting that these tobacco shops are selling to minors.

So if they're not cracking down on these shop owners, and minors are getting their smokes regardless, how does anybody expect enforcement against native smokes to be accomplished?

Oh and the friggin Crime Stoppers here in Nova Scotia have commercials citing much of the above.

"Illegal Tobacco is cheap and available, but how much are you really saving?
• Minors have easy access.
• You don't know what's in them.
• No taxes are going towards funding infrastructure, health care or your children's education......"


I don't know what's in them?

Funny, I don't know what's in legit tobacco either.

Taxes aren't going towards infrastructure or children's education??

Why the hell would my children's education be funded by tobacco in the first place? Isn't that a bit of a conflict? And since when did Tobacco relate to infrastructure & highways?

People are complaining about how much the health system is costing each year.... people argued that smokers should be taxed more to cover their own medical expenses in our system..... YET WHY THE HELL THEN ISN'T ALL THE MONEY FROM SMOKES BEING PUT ON HEALTH CARE???!!

I could accept if the money coming from taxed smokes was going 100% to health care, but if they're going to use the taxes from smokes to pay for everything else just because they can, even when it has no relation to smoking or health in the first place.... then I couldn't give two lumps of crap what they don't get.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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When I smoked I used to go across to the USA to get the additive-free tobacco. I smuggled lots of it across. lol It isn't my fault Canada is too backwards to have additive-free stuff. :D
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Imperial tobacco has been poisoning its tobacco for 50 years or more and lying about it. Who cares if they are losing revenue. They are the organized crime syndicate. Are the native cigarette makers adulterating their tobacco like Imperial does? Why would they incur the extra expense?

I quit smoking 5 years ago by smoking unadulterated tobacco from Quebec. After two weeks, I discovered that I was down to two a day without even trying. So I quit and didn't have any withdrawals at all. I had tried to quit dozens of times before but could not shake the addiction. There was almost nothing in natural tobacco that was addictive, so after two weeks my body was already almost free of addictive substances. Quitting at that time was the easiest thing I had done in decades.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Imperial tobacco has been poisoning its tobacco for 50 years or more and lying about it. Who cares if they are losing revenue. They are the organized crime syndicate. Are the native cigarette makers adulterating their tobacco like Imperial does?
No, but they are using mostly sweep, the stuff that the big guys throw out.


I quit smoking 5 years ago by smoking unadulterated tobacco from Quebec. After two weeks, I discovered that I was down to two a day without even trying. So I quit and didn't have any withdrawals at all. I had tried to quit dozens of times before but could not shake the addiction. There was almost nothing in natural tobacco that was addictive, so after two weeks my body was already almost free of addictive substances. Quitting at that time was the easiest thing I had done in decades.[/quote]
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Imperial tobacco has been poisoning its tobacco for 50 years or more and lying about it. Who cares if they are losing revenue. They are the organized crime syndicate.
It's not that so much as the gov't sniveling about its loss of revenue from taxes.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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The government is THE organized crime syndicate. They spend their whole time thinking up new ways to tax us. What do we get in return? A few concessions but where does most of the money go?
 

dumpthemonarchy

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The government is THE organized crime syndicate. They spend their whole time thinking up new ways to tax us. What do we get in return? A few concessions but where does most of the money go?

So it was the govt in BC shooting people in the streets last year? Young people in BC when they join gangs tend to die young for some reason. Does the govt shoot them? Try not to be so ridiculous. Obviously there are a number of Canadians out there who don't understand the idea of equality before the law.

I doubt there would be a public uproar if the police marched onto reserves and arrested the people selling illegal cigarettes. The politically correct would tut-tut, because they get paid to do such things. But the rest of us would be happy that gangsters are arrested and the law is being evenly inforced.

If the police will not arrest people for selling illegal ciggies, then how about stopping the police from enforcing anti-ecstasy and anti-pot laws?

And, let Marc Emery go free.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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There has to be one law for everyone in Canada. But there isn't. If you are a crown person, cop, work for ICBC and rip off customers, politicians, or aboriginal, the police treat you with kid gloves. My house is not off limits for the police, yet a house on an aboriginal reserve is. The police are corrupt because they are not enforcing the law without fear or favour.


"The cheap smokes are being manufactured in unlicensed factories on first nations reserves in Ontario, Quebec and New York state, then shipped by car, truck and motor home through Eastern Canada and increasingly into the West, particularly B.C. and Manitoba."

Contraband cigarettes make their way to Western Canada
Contraband cigarettes make their way to Western Canada



Cheap illegal smokes mean lost tax revenue, increased organized crime and easier access to tobacco for young people



By Barbara Yaffe, Vancouver SunApril 8, 2010



Contraband cigarettes, which account for nearly half the Quebec and Ontario markets, are starting to make their way into Western Canada.

Imperial Tobacco has labelled the illegal trade route the TransContraband Highway, and is calling on Ottawa to step up action against illegal cigarettes.

The cheap smokes are being manufactured in unlicensed factories on first nations reserves in Ontario, Quebec and New York state, then shipped by car, truck and motor home through Eastern Canada and increasingly into the West, particularly B.C. and Manitoba.

Just this year, RCMP raids in Manitoba, in Portage la Prairie and Brandon, turned up large quantities of smuggled cigarettes. In 2008, contraband cigarettes accounted for nearly four per cent of the market in

B.C., up from two per cent in 2007, according to Imperial's figures.
The B.C. problem is exacerbated by shipments of illegal tobacco products entering the province from China, said Eric Gagnon, spokesman for the Montreal-based company.

The cross-Canada problem is huge, and growing. Imperial estimates some 13 billion illegal cigarettes were sold to Canadians in 2008, up from 10 billion in 2007.
So, what's Imperial's interest in talking up this problem?
After all, why should Canadians care if the pedlars of death lose some of their market share (worth about $900 million a year)?

Well, every time someone buys an illegal bag of 200 cigarettes at $6 instead of paying, say, $90 for a legal carton in B.C., tax revenue is lost to government.
Contraband activity throughout the country translates into forgone federal and provincial tax revenue of about $2.4 billion a year.

It also supports organized crime and offers easy and affordable access to tobacco products for young people.

Canada has made strides in recent decades in getting citizens to abandon and avoid the unhealthy, addictive habit. Only 18 per cent of Canadians still smoke.
But the question is, will a proliferation of cheap cigarettes lead to more people smoking, with implications for health care costs?

The Canadian Cancer Society notes smoking levels had been dropping by one per cent annually -- until 2007 when the declines became far more incremental.
The society says on its web-site: "The main reason for the slowing decline has been the availability of cheap contraband cigarettes."

Imperial is urging the Harper government to make the problem a higher priority, to move beyond mere enforcement activity that takes place through the police seizures.

Of course, the fact the illegal products are being produced on native reserves makes the issue tricky. Can you imagine the feds attempting to shut down unlicensed manufacturing operations on native land?

Gagnon suggested Ottawa should hand over to the native manufacturers a portion of tax revenue from the legal cigarette market in exchange for their agreement to stop producing. But that sounds a lot like a bribe, or a reward for bad behaviour.
Another way the feds could put a dent in the illegal activity is by lowering taxes on cigarettes, which in B.C. -- after the July 1 imposition of the harmonized sales tax -- will total about $60 on a $96 carton.

Imperial tried to lobby the Campbell government to exempt cigarettes from the higher tax take that will result from the HST, but without success, said Gagnon, shaking his head.

And while Ottawa insists it's hard at work addressing the issue of illegal cigarettes -- pointing to the 2008 creation of a task force on illicit tobacco products-- Gagnon said the group has "done nothing to date."

Public Safety Canada's David Charbonneau noted the group will be working with the Americans on the matter because it involves cross-border activity.

byaffe@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Need a source for the St Albert area - Fuk the taxes - Reply by PM please
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Need a source for the St Albert area - Fuk the taxes - Reply by PM please

Yeah, the Mr Tough-On-Crime PM himself, say something. But it gets little media play as Ontario and Quebec are willing to put up with it so there ain't much political hay to make here. The crime is not too violent, yet respect for the rule of law is being trampled underfoot. Canadian govts are always weak on fraud and white collar crime.

Ain't no St Albert reference in the article.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Everyone appears to be missing the point here,,,,

I agree it is outrageous that our government refuses to enforce the law against aboriginals....and not just over cigarette smuggling.

And yes, everybody knows smoking cigarettes ain't good for ya.....

But the government has gone WAY too far.......as they are wont to do.....when those people that are most affected refuse to abide by regulatory law.......then the ONLY achievements of that law is to breed disrespect for all law, and create the conditions for a new criminal underground......absolutely counter-productive.

Be it guns, or marijuana, or tobacco.........when the law ignores the will of a significant portion of the people, it is WRONG!

The gov't needs to back off radically on anti-tobacco silliness.....and taxes.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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So it was the govt in BC shooting people in the streets last year? Young people in BC when they join gangs tend to die young for some reason. Does the govt shoot them? Try not to be so ridiculous. Obviously there are a number of Canadians out there who don't understand the idea of equality before the law.

So what are you trying to say here in relation to this thread? That gangs and people getting shot by gangs are all the Native's and their tobacco's fault? :-?

I doubt there would be a public uproar if the police marched onto reserves and arrested the people selling illegal cigarettes.

I would, because it's not their place to regulate what happens on reserves in regards to this issue. Secondly, last I checked, their tobacco isn't illegal in itself. They're allowed to make whatever tobacco they want and sell it amongst themselves.... where it becomes illegal is when us white folk buy them and not give the government taxes.

There are plenty of things natives are not taxed on.... these are one of those things.

"Inexpensive cigarettes can be readily obtained by all and sundry on First Nations' territory, although, lawfully, only residents of the reserve and status Indians are entitled to purchase them. Occasionally, cigarettes available on reserves are professionally packaged and contain standard health warnings. But usually they come in clear plastic bags."

Contraband cigarettes becoming a national norm -- McLaughlin 176 (11): 1567 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

You can't go rushing into reserves with police to shut these places down, because they're not doing anything against the law.

Continually calling them contraband or illegal smokes is confusing the overall issue.

They're only illegal if someone not of native status or residents of a reserve purchase them, in which they're the one's breaking the laws, not the natives.

Please get your facts straight.

The politically correct would tut-tut, because they get paid to do such things.

Really? I'd like to know where my pay cheques are going then.

But the rest of us would be happy that gangsters are arrested and the law is being evenly inforced.

Psh.... gangsters.... please.

If the police will not arrest people for selling illegal ciggies, then how about stopping the police from enforcing anti-ecstasy and anti-pot laws?

And, let Marc Emery go free.

You got my vote on all three. :canada:

Added:

Besides, it's good income for these reserves, which many are left in squaller by the government. All the power to em I say.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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So what are you trying to say here in relation to this thread? That gangs and people getting shot by gangs are all the Native's and their tobacco's fault? :-?

I would, because it's not their place to regulate what happens on reserves in regards to this issue. Secondly, last I checked, their tobacco isn't illegal in itself. They're allowed to make whatever tobacco they want and sell it amongst themselves.... where it becomes illegal is when us white folk buy them and not give the government taxes.

There are plenty of things natives are not taxed on.... these are one of those things.

"Inexpensive cigarettes can be readily obtained by all and sundry on First Nations' territory, although, lawfully, only residents of the reserve and status Indians are entitled to purchase them. Occasionally, cigarettes available on reserves are professionally packaged and contain standard health warnings. But usually they come in clear plastic bags."

Contraband cigarettes becoming a national norm -- McLaughlin 176 (11): 1567 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

You can't go rushing into reserves with police to shut these places down, because they're not doing anything against the law.

Continually calling them contraband or illegal smokes is confusing the overall issue.

They're only illegal if someone not of native status or residents of a reserve purchase them, in which they're the one's breaking the laws, not the natives.

Please get your facts straight.

Really? I'd like to know where my pay cheques are going then.

Psh.... gangsters.... please.



You got my vote on all three. :canada:

Added:

Besides, it's good income for these reserves, which many are left in squaller by the government. All the power to em I say.

I'm responding to Cliffy who said the govt is the MAFIA and GANGS. It is not.

Right, tobacco is not illegal in itself, it is however a regulated product and being so there are laws to follow-for all people in Canada. Not just white folk buy the ciggies but Aboriginals aggressively sell them and the govt does little. It is like with the GST, with sales under $30,000 per year a business doesn't need to collect it. But over that you must, and with illegal tobacco sales in the hundreds of millions, we're talking real money here.

Aboriginal reserves are not like Switzerland or Japan, the Canadian authorities cannot walk into those countries without permission. Switzerland and Japan can deny Canadians entry to their countries forever and we can do nothing about it.

Aboriginal reserves are not countries, they get billions of dollars from the federal govt to survive. Sovereignty here? No chance. Another Canadian fable.

The Vancouver Sun mentioned there would be outrage if the police moved in on reserves to stop this. Not by the general public who want wrongdoers behind bars and laws obeyed. I have to obey the law, why do aboriginal get a pass?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Nakusp, BC
I have to obey the law, why do aboriginal get a pass?

You don't. Have you ever heard of a "free man on the land"? Look it up. The law is an ass! Kick it (the habit that is). Or as Bob Dylan once said, "It takes an honest man to live outside the law."
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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There is one law, and I do not care what the goverment says. (either Canadian or The United States), First Nations or native American Indian reservations are independent nations living under the protection of Canada and the U.S.. Let them make a buck.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
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Nakusp, BC
I find this whole situation ironic, As Sun Bear once said, white man took the Indians sacred tobacco and made himself sick. The Indian took the white man's sacred wine and made himself sick. The whites exploited a sacred substance and made billions killing off their own people. Now the natives are making a buck at it, finally exploiting the substance they introduced, people are getting up in arms.

Then there are casinos and wineries. Payback is a bitch, eh!