Hitler: A Man Of Peace, In Doc: Love, Hate, & Propaganda, Episode 2


dumpthemonarchy
#1
So I am watching this CBC doc and they get an uninformed young woman to say what many, but not everyone in Germany felt, that "We were convinced, Hitler was a man of peace." Meaning young people. And George Stroumboupolous says it again. That Hitler was a man of peace.

What about Crystal Night, the Night of the Long Knives, the burning of the Reichstag, street fighting with communists and other political parties? Hundreds and possibly thousands of Germans were killed in the decade leading up to 1939 by the Nazis.

Love, Hate and Propaganda - Documentaries | CBC
 
cdarro
#2
And your point would be what? That people are misled by the media, their governments and "public" opinion, or just look the other way?
 
dumpthemonarchy
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by cdarroView Post

And your point would be what? That people are misled by the media, their governments and "public" opinion, or just look the other way?

Like, didn't they know at the CBC that Germany was a dictatorship at the time. Selling a war here is not a problem. How about the creation of the Gestapo. A new secret police. Some suckers were gulled, but everyone?
 
gerryh
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Like, didn't they know at the CBC that Germany was a dictatorship at the time. Selling a war here is not a problem. How about the creation of the Gestapo. A new secret police. Some suckers were gulled, but everyone?

When exactly was Germany a dictatorship?
 
dumpthemonarchy
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

When exactly was Germany a dictatorship?

1934 Nazi Germany - Dictatorship
 
gerryh
#6
That`s right, and technically, it was a `legal" dictatorship, voted and passed by a democratically elected Reichstag.
 
earth_as_one
#7
Not all Germans supported the Nazis. But after Germany became a dictatorship, it was too late to stop them. Speaking out against the Nazi regime soon became hazardous to ones health.
 
gerryh
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Not all Germans supported the Nazis. But after Germany became a dictatorship, it was too late to stop them. Speaking out against the Nazi regime soon became hazardous to ones health.

It was hazardous for some even before Hitler acquired sole power.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#9
Quick, watch the video on the website. It will be gone on Thursday when the next episode is on. The Hitler peace stuff comes on just after 4 minutes.
 
Bar Sinister
#10
Of course Hitler was a man of peace. There would have been total peace in the Thousand Year Reich when all the "subhuman races" had been killed off or enslaved and all opposition had been imprisoned or murdered.

BTW gerryh the act in which Hitler was voted dictatorial powers (The Enabling Act) was passed in a manner that most people would find far from democratic. Here is an account of the passing of the act.
Hitler's Enabling Act
 
dumpthemonarchy
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

Of course Hitler was a man of peace. There would have been total peace in the Thousand Year Reich when all the "subhuman races" had been killed off or enslaved and all opposition had been imprisoned or murdered.

BTW gerryh the act in which Hitler was voted dictatorial powers (The Enabling Act) was passed in a manner that most people would find far from democratic. Here is an account of the passing of the act.
Hitler's Enabling Act

Yes, Hitler was a man of peace, and his henchmen would prove it through your face if you disagree. Especially if you one of the subhuman races. One wonders what they were reading at the CBC in the making of this "doc."
 
cdarro
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

So I am watching this CBC doc and they get an uninformed young woman to say what many, but not everyone in Germany felt, that "We were convinced, Hitler was a man of peace." Meaning young people. And George Stroumboupolous says it again. That Hitler was a man of peace.

What about Crystal Night, the Night of the Long Knives, the burning of the Reichstag, street fighting with communists and other political parties? Hundreds and possibly thousands of Germans were killed in the decade leading up to 1939 by the Nazis.

Love, Hate and Propaganda - Documentaries | CBC

Stromboulopolis does not say that Hitler was a man of peace. He paraphrases the young girl's statement, saying, in effect, "If Hitler was a man of peace, how did he convince millions to follow him into war?" You don't seem to have grasped the irony.
He is setting up his story, i.e., that propaganda can be used to convince people to believe anything, no matter how unlikely or outrageous.
Last edited by cdarro; Mar 17th, 2010 at 01:21 AM..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by cdarroView Post

Stromboulopolis does not say that Hitler was a man of peace. He paraphrases the young girl's statement, saying, in effect, "If Hitler was a man of peace, how did he convince millions to follow him into war?" You don't seem to have grasped the irony.
He is setting up his story, i.e., that propaganda can be used to convince people to believe anything, no matter how unlikely or outrageous.

I guess that word "if" lets George S. off the hook. Hitler might have been a man of peace if .... Although he was not at all, ever in his life.

And Germans did not have much of a choice to "follow" Hitler into war because Germany was a dictatorship and the population had a gun to its head. Hitler did not have to worry about a minor thing like popular support, like the UK, US, and Canada had to worry about.

You can't set up a story, that is, look at different options, on well known history. It is an absurdity. Maybe if Hitler would have had more exciting sex too, he might have lost interest in building an aggressive, expansionist Germany too. Look at all those "maidens" in the stadium. There is no theoretical argument to be made here.

The irony seems to me is that the CBC is espousing propaganda here by suggesting Hitler had some peaceful intentions and it was cirtical to use propaganda to start a war. A war Germans were reluctant to follow. It's totally false.
 
cdarro
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

I guess that word "if" lets George S. off the hook. Hitler might have been a man of peace if .... Although he was not at all, ever in his life.

And Germans did not have much of a choice to "follow" Hitler into war because Germany was a dictatorship and the population had a gun to its head. Hitler did not have to worry about a minor thing like popular support, like the UK, US, and Canada had to worry about.

You can't set up a story, that is, look at different options, on well known history. It is an absurdity. Maybe if Hitler would have had more exciting sex too, he might have lost interest in building an aggressive, expansionist Germany too. Look at all those "maidens" in the stadium. There is no theoretical argument to be made here.

The irony seems to me is that the CBC is espousing propaganda here by suggesting Hitler had some peaceful intentions and it was cirtical to use propaganda to start a war. A war Germans were reluctant to follow. It's totally false.

You're missing his point completely. He's not even remotely exonerating Hitler. And the CBC is not espousing propaganda. The doc tries to show how a party in power used propaganda to manipulate public opinion; to convince a nation that didn't really want a war to fight one. Not altogether unlike Dubya , the neocons and weapons of mass destruction.
 
earth_as_one
#15
This documentary explains how good people can support evil deeds. Control what people know and you control what they think. How else can you get people to support war crimes and crimes against humanity?

The Iraq war is a good recent example. The news simply reprinted government propaganda regarding Iraq and as a result over a million people died. At no time did the evidence support what most people believed about Iraq. German propaganda regarding Polish persecution of ethnic Germans had far more supporting evidence than US government claims about Iraq's non-existant WMD stockpiles or links to al Qaeda.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 17th, 2010 at 01:55 AM..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

This documentary explains how good people can support evil deeds. Control what people know and you control what they think. How else can you get people to support war crimes and crimes against humanity. The Iraq war is a good recent example. Over a million people died in that conflict over Iraq's non-existant WMDs.

But in a dictatorship the state takes control and most people cannot be sure what is happening, and even if they fully understood what was happening to the Jews for example, they simply don't have the means to stop it. Propaganda doesn't convince in this situation, it justifies.

Sure, controlling the media is what it's all about. but George S. made an absurd statement he did not adequately support. From a young woman to boot who simply went along with the crowd. And crowds is where propaganda works best because you don't feel personally responsible.

From a complex and tense situation in Germany in 1939, to reduce it to the simple word propaganda becomes a grade nine high school lesson. Before the CBC began this doc, they ought to have watched the British Thames series on WW 2 to get a better grip on the situation at the time.
 
relic
#17
All you have to do is watch your pal steve and his lackys to see how it works.
 
earth_as_one
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

But in a dictatorship the state takes control and most people cannot be sure what is happening, and even if they fully understood what was happening to the Jews for example, they simply don't have the means to stop it. Propaganda doesn't convince in this situation, it justifies.

Sure, controlling the media is what it's all about. but George S. made an absurd statement he did not adequately support. From a young woman to boot who simply went along with the crowd. And crowds is where propaganda works best because you don't feel personally responsible.

From a complex and tense situation in Germany in 1939, to reduce it to the simple word propaganda becomes a grade nine high school lesson. Before the CBC began this doc, they ought to have watched the British Thames series on WW 2 to get a better grip on the situation at the time.

People can be just as easily controlled in a democracy as they are in a dictatorship. Its all about controlling the media and as a result, controlling the message. Once you control what people know, you can control what they think and do.

Hermann Goering re: propaganda
Quote:

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Sure Goering was a war criminal. But he was also correct. Even in a democracy like Canada, people can be just as easily manipulated by propaganda as in a dictatorship, perhaps even easier...

In the 1980's, I was involved in a joint Canada/Russia project. I got to know a few of the Russians pretty well. One night after a few drinks, I was giving them a hard time about their news media and Pravda. I said that their news was almost 100% propaganda, whereas here in Canada, our news is objective and accurate. That made them all laugh. One of them quipped, "In Russia, we know our news is propaganda. In Canada, you think your propaganda is news."

When people are aware the media is controlled as in a dictatorship, they are more skeptical. But when people are unaware the media is controlled, they are more trusting and as a result more manipulated.

I reference the pro-war propaganda before the Iraq war as an example.

Quote:

Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War
October 2, 2003

Study Finds Widespread Misperceptions on Iraq
Highly Related to Support for War

A new study based on a series of seven US polls conducted from January through September of this year reveals that before and after the Iraq war, a majority of Americans have had significant misperceptions and these are highly related to support for the war in Iraq.

The polling, conducted by the Program on International Policy (PIPA) at the University of Maryland and Knowledge Networks, also reveals that the frequency of these misperceptions varies significantly according to individuals' primary source of news. Those who primarily watch Fox News are significantly more likely to have misperceptions, while those who primarily listen to NPR or watch PBS are significantly less likely...



Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War - World Public Opinion

Of course people in a democracy can be easily manipulated.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#19
e_a_o, I'm not arguing propaganda works or not, it does. We all want to be persuaded if it means someone else takes the hit. But this show put the notion out there that called Hitler a man of peace. It just aint so. This was the main point of the show because they went to talk how propaganda works. Had this peae issue been a minor point, then I really would be quibbling. But they put this right up front.

How many dictators or strongmen have you heard of that were known as men of peace? Very few. And we are talking here the early 20th century, an era of two world wars, and an economic depression.

Regarding the Russians you met, they knew they were being fed propaganda, but like in Hitler's Germany, they could do nothing about it. George S. is talking about propaganda to people today, who have a choice, a big difference. In 1939, that woman, that German "maiden", really didnt' have much choice supporting the Nazi dictatorship. Propaganda is not an abstract tool of persuasion, it is was a hammer and a gun. So, it's not propaganda as we know it today.
 
cdarro
#20
You're 180 degrees off here. The doc wasn't selling the notion that Hitler was a man of peace. It tries to analyze how the Nazi propaganda machine sold the notion of him as one to people who should have known better.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by cdarroView Post

You're 180 degrees off here. The doc wasn't selling the notion that Hitler was a man of peace. It tries to analyze how the Nazi propaganda machine sold the notion of him as one to people who should have known better.

If the doc Hitler is a man of peace, they have to show some evidence that he has been in his life. Right? The statement needs to be backed up. What George S. said is simply an "argument" that holds no water, that is the problem. What many people believed, is not fact.

This ain't no abstract discussion. Hitler was a real man who did real deeds. And most of those deeds were not what people would consider peaceful.

The doc does not try to justify what he did, and many people in the world are okay with what he tried. Mongolians think Genghis Khan is the greatest, despite his brutal acts.
 
cdarro
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

If the doc Hitler is a man of peace, they have to show some evidence that he has been in his life. Right? The statement needs to be backed up. What George S. said is simply an "argument" that holds no water, that is the problem. What many people believed, is not fact.

This ain't no abstract discussion. Hitler was a real man who did real deeds. And most of those deeds were not what people would consider peaceful.

The doc does not try to justify what he did, and many people in the world are okay with what he tried. Mongolians think Genghis Khan is the greatest, despite his brutal acts.

You're still missing the point, purposely, perhaps. Stombo is not saying that he believes Hitler was a man of peace, i.e., making an argument. He is being sarcastic. He is asking "How, if Hitler was a man of peace as the young girl (and millions of other Germans) seemed to believe, did he get those people to follow him into war?"
Again, you seem to have missed the irony (where the apparent meaning is the opposite of the actual meaning) in his words.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by cdarroView Post

You're still missing the point, purposely, perhaps. Stombo is not saying that he believes Hitler was a man of peace, i.e., making an argument. He is being sarcastic. He is asking "How, if Hitler was a man of peace as the young girl (and millions of other Germans) seemed to believe, did he get those people to follow him into war?"
Again, you seem to have missed the irony (where the apparent meaning is the opposite of the actual meaning) in his words.

Hmm. What Stroubo said is not what he meant. Problem is, that girl, in her little world, thought things were fine and had the though in her head that Hitler was a man of peace. She was a hard core believer in any nonsense Hitler said. She was not a critical thinker. Stroumbo doesn't get it because the show lacks context.

We all know Hitler was not a man of peace by any means. Yet, for this show, to discuss how propaganda works, he seems to become that. I think you're talking about pseudo history, historical actors become props for ideas. Reconstructing a past that did not exist.
 
cdarro
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Hmm. What Stroubo said is not what he meant. Problem is, that girl, in her little world, thought things were fine and had the though in her head that Hitler was a man of peace. She was a hard core believer in any nonsense Hitler said. She was not a critical thinker. Stroumbo doesn't get it because the show lacks context.

We all know Hitler was not a man of peace by any means. Yet, for this show, to discuss how propaganda works, he seems to become that. I think you're talking about pseudo history, historical actors become props for ideas. Reconstructing a past that did not exist.

Believe what you need to believe. We obviously came away with completely different takes on the doc.
 
petros
#25
Quote:

What about Crystal Night, the Night of the Long Knives, the burning of the Reichstag, street fighting with communists and other political parties? Hundreds and possibly thousands of Germans were killed in the decade leading up to 1939 by the Nazis.

What about the Eugenics movement in the USA, the use of black people to test drugs and disease like syphilis and the sterilization programs at the very same time as Hitler retaliating to Judea declaring war on Germany in 33?


American, German, Jew, Russian, Canuck it doesn't matter people worldwide are all ****ed in the head and you and I are too..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by cdarroView Post

Believe what you need to believe. We obviously came away with completely different takes on the doc.

Maybe you don't have clue about history. And George S. is an entertainer and I doubt he has a clue either.
 
cdarro
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Maybe you don't have clue about history. And George S. is an entertainer and I doubt he has a clue either.

Hail Dump the Monarchy! All knowing, all wise....
 
dumpthemonarchy
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by cdarroView Post

Hail Dump the Monarchy! All knowing, all wise....

I've never heard anything serious from Stroumbo and he went off the deep end here. Supporting your pals all the time might make you an easy victim of propaganda.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#29
Calling everyone clued out is a bit much.

But this so-called doc really bothers me. For one thing, there are no Canadian academics in it. I read elsewhere that it seems like a US-UK production. So Stroumbo may be just mouthing words he does not understand on a pretty serious topic.

I remember in grade 3, the teacher scolding another student not to write anything down in your notebook in a project that you don't understand. This seems like Stroumbo here. I know WW 2 is not his bag. Even the academics seem too light. This is a very flawed show.
 

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