Hitler: A Man Of Peace, In Doc: Love, Hate, & Propaganda, Episode 2

dumpthemonarchy

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So I am watching this CBC doc and they get an uninformed young woman to say what many, but not everyone in Germany felt, that "We were convinced, Hitler was a man of peace." Meaning young people. And George Stroumboupolous says it again. That Hitler was a man of peace.

What about Crystal Night, the Night of the Long Knives, the burning of the Reichstag, street fighting with communists and other political parties? Hundreds and possibly thousands of Germans were killed in the decade leading up to 1939 by the Nazis.

Love, Hate and Propaganda - Documentaries | CBC
 

cdarro

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And your point would be what? That people are misled by the media, their governments and "public" opinion, or just look the other way?
 

gerryh

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Like, didn't they know at the CBC that Germany was a dictatorship at the time. Selling a war here is not a problem. How about the creation of the Gestapo. A new secret police. Some suckers were gulled, but everyone?

When exactly was Germany a dictatorship?
 

gerryh

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That`s right, and technically, it was a `legal" dictatorship, voted and passed by a democratically elected Reichstag.
 

earth_as_one

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Not all Germans supported the Nazis. But after Germany became a dictatorship, it was too late to stop them. Speaking out against the Nazi regime soon became hazardous to ones health.
 

gerryh

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Not all Germans supported the Nazis. But after Germany became a dictatorship, it was too late to stop them. Speaking out against the Nazi regime soon became hazardous to ones health.

It was hazardous for some even before Hitler acquired sole power.
 

Bar Sinister

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Of course Hitler was a man of peace. There would have been total peace in the Thousand Year Reich when all the "subhuman races" had been killed off or enslaved and all opposition had been imprisoned or murdered.

BTW gerryh the act in which Hitler was voted dictatorial powers (The Enabling Act) was passed in a manner that most people would find far from democratic. Here is an account of the passing of the act.
Hitler's Enabling Act
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Of course Hitler was a man of peace. There would have been total peace in the Thousand Year Reich when all the "subhuman races" had been killed off or enslaved and all opposition had been imprisoned or murdered.

BTW gerryh the act in which Hitler was voted dictatorial powers (The Enabling Act) was passed in a manner that most people would find far from democratic. Here is an account of the passing of the act.
Hitler's Enabling Act

Yes, Hitler was a man of peace, and his henchmen would prove it through your face if you disagree. Especially if you one of the subhuman races. One wonders what they were reading at the CBC in the making of this "doc."
 

cdarro

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So I am watching this CBC doc and they get an uninformed young woman to say what many, but not everyone in Germany felt, that "We were convinced, Hitler was a man of peace." Meaning young people. And George Stroumboupolous says it again. That Hitler was a man of peace.

What about Crystal Night, the Night of the Long Knives, the burning of the Reichstag, street fighting with communists and other political parties? Hundreds and possibly thousands of Germans were killed in the decade leading up to 1939 by the Nazis.

Love, Hate and Propaganda - Documentaries | CBC

Stromboulopolis does not say that Hitler was a man of peace. He paraphrases the young girl's statement, saying, in effect, "If Hitler was a man of peace, how did he convince millions to follow him into war?" You don't seem to have grasped the irony.
He is setting up his story, i.e., that propaganda can be used to convince people to believe anything, no matter how unlikely or outrageous.
 
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dumpthemonarchy

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Stromboulopolis does not say that Hitler was a man of peace. He paraphrases the young girl's statement, saying, in effect, "If Hitler was a man of peace, how did he convince millions to follow him into war?" You don't seem to have grasped the irony.
He is setting up his story, i.e., that propaganda can be used to convince people to believe anything, no matter how unlikely or outrageous.

I guess that word "if" lets George S. off the hook. Hitler might have been a man of peace if .... Although he was not at all, ever in his life.

And Germans did not have much of a choice to "follow" Hitler into war because Germany was a dictatorship and the population had a gun to its head. Hitler did not have to worry about a minor thing like popular support, like the UK, US, and Canada had to worry about.

You can't set up a story, that is, look at different options, on well known history. It is an absurdity. Maybe if Hitler would have had more exciting sex too, he might have lost interest in building an aggressive, expansionist Germany too. Look at all those "maidens" in the stadium. There is no theoretical argument to be made here.

The irony seems to me is that the CBC is espousing propaganda here by suggesting Hitler had some peaceful intentions and it was cirtical to use propaganda to start a war. A war Germans were reluctant to follow. It's totally false.
 

cdarro

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I guess that word "if" lets George S. off the hook. Hitler might have been a man of peace if .... Although he was not at all, ever in his life.

And Germans did not have much of a choice to "follow" Hitler into war because Germany was a dictatorship and the population had a gun to its head. Hitler did not have to worry about a minor thing like popular support, like the UK, US, and Canada had to worry about.

You can't set up a story, that is, look at different options, on well known history. It is an absurdity. Maybe if Hitler would have had more exciting sex too, he might have lost interest in building an aggressive, expansionist Germany too. Look at all those "maidens" in the stadium. There is no theoretical argument to be made here.

The irony seems to me is that the CBC is espousing propaganda here by suggesting Hitler had some peaceful intentions and it was cirtical to use propaganda to start a war. A war Germans were reluctant to follow. It's totally false.

You're missing his point completely. He's not even remotely exonerating Hitler. And the CBC is not espousing propaganda. The doc tries to show how a party in power used propaganda to manipulate public opinion; to convince a nation that didn't really want a war to fight one. Not altogether unlike Dubya , the neocons and weapons of mass destruction.
 

earth_as_one

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This documentary explains how good people can support evil deeds. Control what people know and you control what they think. How else can you get people to support war crimes and crimes against humanity?

The Iraq war is a good recent example. The news simply reprinted government propaganda regarding Iraq and as a result over a million people died. At no time did the evidence support what most people believed about Iraq. German propaganda regarding Polish persecution of ethnic Germans had far more supporting evidence than US government claims about Iraq's non-existant WMD stockpiles or links to al Qaeda.
 
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dumpthemonarchy

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This documentary explains how good people can support evil deeds. Control what people know and you control what they think. How else can you get people to support war crimes and crimes against humanity. The Iraq war is a good recent example. Over a million people died in that conflict over Iraq's non-existant WMDs.

But in a dictatorship the state takes control and most people cannot be sure what is happening, and even if they fully understood what was happening to the Jews for example, they simply don't have the means to stop it. Propaganda doesn't convince in this situation, it justifies.

Sure, controlling the media is what it's all about. but George S. made an absurd statement he did not adequately support. From a young woman to boot who simply went along with the crowd. And crowds is where propaganda works best because you don't feel personally responsible.

From a complex and tense situation in Germany in 1939, to reduce it to the simple word propaganda becomes a grade nine high school lesson. Before the CBC began this doc, they ought to have watched the British Thames series on WW 2 to get a better grip on the situation at the time.
 

earth_as_one

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But in a dictatorship the state takes control and most people cannot be sure what is happening, and even if they fully understood what was happening to the Jews for example, they simply don't have the means to stop it. Propaganda doesn't convince in this situation, it justifies.

Sure, controlling the media is what it's all about. but George S. made an absurd statement he did not adequately support. From a young woman to boot who simply went along with the crowd. And crowds is where propaganda works best because you don't feel personally responsible.

From a complex and tense situation in Germany in 1939, to reduce it to the simple word propaganda becomes a grade nine high school lesson. Before the CBC began this doc, they ought to have watched the British Thames series on WW 2 to get a better grip on the situation at the time.

People can be just as easily controlled in a democracy as they are in a dictatorship. Its all about controlling the media and as a result, controlling the message. Once you control what people know, you can control what they think and do.

Hermann Goering re: propaganda
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
Sure Goering was a war criminal. But he was also correct. Even in a democracy like Canada, people can be just as easily manipulated by propaganda as in a dictatorship, perhaps even easier...

In the 1980's, I was involved in a joint Canada/Russia project. I got to know a few of the Russians pretty well. One night after a few drinks, I was giving them a hard time about their news media and Pravda. I said that their news was almost 100% propaganda, whereas here in Canada, our news is objective and accurate. That made them all laugh. One of them quipped, "In Russia, we know our news is propaganda. In Canada, you think your propaganda is news."

When people are aware the media is controlled as in a dictatorship, they are more skeptical. But when people are unaware the media is controlled, they are more trusting and as a result more manipulated.

I reference the pro-war propaganda before the Iraq war as an example.

Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War
October 2, 2003

Study Finds Widespread Misperceptions on Iraq
Highly Related to Support for War

A new study based on a series of seven US polls conducted from January through September of this year reveals that before and after the Iraq war, a majority of Americans have had significant misperceptions and these are highly related to support for the war in Iraq.

The polling, conducted by the Program on International Policy (PIPA) at the University of Maryland and Knowledge Networks, also reveals that the frequency of these misperceptions varies significantly according to individuals' primary source of news. Those who primarily watch Fox News are significantly more likely to have misperceptions, while those who primarily listen to NPR or watch PBS are significantly less likely...



Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War - World Public Opinion
Of course people in a democracy can be easily manipulated.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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e_a_o, I'm not arguing propaganda works or not, it does. We all want to be persuaded if it means someone else takes the hit. But this show put the notion out there that called Hitler a man of peace. It just aint so. This was the main point of the show because they went to talk how propaganda works. Had this peae issue been a minor point, then I really would be quibbling. But they put this right up front.

How many dictators or strongmen have you heard of that were known as men of peace? Very few. And we are talking here the early 20th century, an era of two world wars, and an economic depression.

Regarding the Russians you met, they knew they were being fed propaganda, but like in Hitler's Germany, they could do nothing about it. George S. is talking about propaganda to people today, who have a choice, a big difference. In 1939, that woman, that German "maiden", really didnt' have much choice supporting the Nazi dictatorship. Propaganda is not an abstract tool of persuasion, it is was a hammer and a gun. So, it's not propaganda as we know it today.
 

cdarro

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You're 180 degrees off here. The doc wasn't selling the notion that Hitler was a man of peace. It tries to analyze how the Nazi propaganda machine sold the notion of him as one to people who should have known better.