Green/Clean Tech


damngrumpy
+2 / -2
#151  Top Rated Post
The only thing green about the green movement is the price tag, as most of it is nothing
more than propaganda. If we were to go about making things as green as we are all
proposing, we would be in serious trouble socially and economically. For instance we
would price ourselves out of the market. The green solutions would ad to the cost of
almost everything. There would be massive shortages in food products, especially if
we went to organics. I have nothing against organics it has a place but so does the
conventional growers in the food industry.
We would see people going hungry and the other thing we don't consider is the changing
world around us. Other countries are going to pressure us for competition for goods and
services not to mention Food. The problem is third world countries are growing massive
middle classes, that will rival us for the price of everything. Food, and commodities will
rise dramatically and so will the price, green products will if continuing on the present path
will price themselves out of the market.
Green in reality is unfortunately a myth, and unfortunately we lose the ability to make even
a practical difference because too many have their idealistically in the clouds. Yes there
are some practical things we can do, but they are minor and unlikely to gain the social
acceptance needed to make them successful. The green movement is just that a movement
of self interest that is not interested in practical compromise and compromise will be what is
needed. Change will come, in some areas and it will take over half a century to accomplish.
There are two directions, one we can, work with others and educate and compromise to get
people to accept change. Two we can force the programs down peoples throats and if that
happens you'll get the same result as the HST in BC and that is serious social unrest to the max.
There is no such thing as global utopia,
 
GreenFish66
#152
What?.DamnGrumpy..We must live in/on different worlds ...Your on the otherside my friend...Sorry to hear that...

http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/planetMakeover/planetMakeover.html

Believe what you will, Damn Grumpy.

But If Green is a Myth..
Who are You Talkin to?


B.GreenFish66..

(DamnGrumpy ?..Y .U alwayz gotta B soooo Damn Grumpy..?)


BP oil spill anniversary brings environmental warnings in Gulf of Mexico | Video | Reuters.com (external - login to view)

NASA - The End of a Remarkable Mission: SeaWiFS? Thirteen Years of Observing our Home Planet




This is the Green/Clean Tech Thread ...Here...Anything/Everything , IS...Possible..(DamnmmmGrumpymm .... )



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WWF - Whales and Dolphins - Old dangers persist, new ones have appeared (external - login to view)

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The Light is Green.The Future is Clear.Green/Clean Tech is Now...It is the Future..
Last edited by GreenFish66; Apr 20th, 2011 at 08:26 PM..
 
damngrumpy
#153
Get this straight I am not against Green Technology all I am saying is that the green
technology of the present is a mixture for the most part, of profit and myth. I am a
farmer, and wherever I can I use the products that least harm the environment because
it makes sense. I am not organic but I am reduced risk. In other words I use products
that will kill codling moth and bud moth, or aphids but not lady bugs and beneficial
insects. The Green agenda is being run by a movement that is not interested in a balance
of common sense and economic viability, they are interested in enacting their own agenda
based on their own opinions whether they have merit or not. That is the problem the Green
movement has to clean up its act, and start a dialogue of common sense with all parities to
the eventual agenda. To date they seem interested in patting each other on the back.
spouting their own propaganda and calling anyone who disagrees with them names.
Like all families there are people on all sides of this agenda, but why is it that those who center
their lives on Green, say oh your not on our side on this one, like you did. It is not about being
on one side or another, its about how do we solve a problem together, using the best of
methods regardless of who's idea it is. We need to balance social commitment with the
economic realities of our own country and that of the world. We need to give the lip the heart
and the head time to catch up to each other no matter what the view you hold is. Only by
discussing things, making some compromises to get to the next step, and respecting the
views of all, will we make any progress. Usually the steam runs out before the work begins.
In that vein I suggest before everyone with special interests which is everyone, finishes their
posturing and preaching, it will be another century before anything happens. Like religion, the
young people are all green and fuzzy and then they become part of the real world of work and
quickly understand, Green comes with a price, and of course they want a snowmobile like
everyone else. They want a motorcycle, fishing boat, ski boat and and muscle car. The
once devout green minded youth hits 35 or 40 and they are not so green anymore. The problem
is there are people changing age categories every day. Yes there will be a green tomorrow
just over the rainbow but that is a long way off no matter how hard you try to change the vision
in the environmental mirror.
 
GreenFish66
#154
DG- " wherever I can I use the products that least harm the environment because
it makes sense"...

Well said DG..

It's Environmental Commonsensibility


Different shades of Green I suppose...Eco Greens,-Enviro Greens,-GreenTech Greens....Ah.Blue/Greens.Uh ..Green/Blues...

and of course ...Then There's ....

Green/Clean Tech ..The Thread.........

-----------------------------

Peace or pieces ?

Peace...
...( as we all work together toward energy effeciency, low waste levels..Sustainability.Balance...Long Lives.Good Health...Clean Air/Water/...Invention/Innovation..Ah ...Environmental Commonsensibility...and uh ,,Etc ..>Ect. ad inf.(.into Deeeep Spaaace,and back home again,.. for supper..)

Live long and Prosper..
Continue to Move Forever Positively Forward into the Future!..
(Now!
For Real ...!
So Go,
GO Now...
GO Green/Clean Tech..
Go,
but Come Back Again ..ok????)=)-
..
Last edited by GreenFish66; Apr 20th, 2011 at 10:12 PM..
 
GreenFish66
#155
Earth Day 2011



Earth Day Canada: - (external - login to view)





Home | Earth Day Network (external - login to view)


So ...Who Cares?

..We all Should...

Who's responsible for Cleaning up our mess ?

We all Should be...

And of Course,....... Everyday is An EarthDay...

So have An Earthlingy /Earthy/Earthingly(?)/Earthly EarthDay, Today, and Everyday, as We Continue to Move Together, Forever, Positively Forward, Toward a Safer, Healthier, Happier, More Sustainable yet Prosperous Future...


Peace or Pieces?..

Peace..

--------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________ _____________________


Canada 'unprepared' for Arctic drilling | Archives | Money | Toronto Sun

There is no Future in Oil...It get's riskier with every new well....It's no longer worth the Risk..

Time to do what other smart countries are doing .Leaving oil behind..Moving toward Cleaner/Far More sustainable sources of energy.

It is inparitive we break our addiction to oil ..More Imparitive, that we break oil's control over our addiction to oil/Over consumption.

Start by re-alocating subsidies.Moving from oil to a New Cleaner/More Sustainable/Balanced Energy Model. A Model that includes many Cleaner/Alternative Energies ....

The Light is Green .The Future is Clear..Green/Clean Tech Is now, It is the Future..

..
Last edited by GreenFish66; Apr 22nd, 2011 at 02:58 PM..
 
GreenFish66
#156
Metro - Earth Day the first step in a long journey (external - login to view)
 
GreenFish66
#157
Alberta premier criticizes oil spill cleanup - *News - MSN CA (external - login to view)

Feds seeking oil spill cleanup crews - *News - MSN CA (external - login to view)

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Green Goes Good with the New Canadian Political Landscape..

Many Canadian 1st's in this election .

.A New Political Spectrum comes to light.

A Splash of colour over grey...

------------------------------------

Green energy can wean off subsidies, gradually | Reuters (external - login to view)


- Green Energy can wean off subsidies, gradually
Crude Oil?
Last edited by GreenFish66; May 6th, 2011 at 12:41 AM..
 
In Between Man
+1
#158
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenFish66View Post

 
Imagine what a new Green/Clean Tech City of the future might look like ....

I imagine no cars or even roads in the downtown core. Light rail, biking and walking paths are the only methods of transportation to, out, and within the core.

I imagine a city council that by law must establish NEW green space for every green space or unused land it decides to develop. Therefore ensuring an equal balance of buildings and parks.

I imagine citizens with micro farms in their backyards with things like chickens, gardens and composting.

 
GreenFish66
+1
#159
Hear ya Here , Alleywayzalwayz ...
There are many different shades of Green ...All are necessary, in a Well Balanced/Sustainable Future..Alwayz..
 
In Between Man
+1
#160
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenFish66View Post

Hear ya Here , Alleywayzalwayz ...
There are many different shades of Green ...All are necessary, in a balanced/sustainable future..Alwayz..

If everyone did their part it would make this world a lot more green. I'm shocked when I meet someone who doesn't recycle. I recycle any little scrap that I can, heck, I feel bad if I don't.

How about the clowns who willfully litter or dump gargabe in the woods? I would like to see that "Maximum $2000 fine for littering" be applied to them - and make it stick! No mercy!

The environment is a really good cause to get behind, because no matter your political stripes, everyone wants fresh air, clean water, and beautiful wilderness to enjoy.
 
GreenFish66
+1
#161
I like to believe that those who knowingly, willfully , pollute are a dwindling minority ...Because it is apparent , that they care little for anything, including themselves / are ignorant of everything, Including themselves..

Conscience Clean - Can't beat yourself up over it though .All anyone can do is their best.We all Make waste..Just some make way more than others..and ignorantly, don't give a S**t.

Those who make the mess , Should clean it up .
When they don't ...
It's good to know that there are some who will ...
Willingly , Unconditionally ..For the betterment of us all, and the next to come ....

----------

The numbers of the Awake and Aware are growing ...( positively speaking )
Last edited by GreenFish66; May 6th, 2011 at 01:42 AM..
 
In Between Man
#162
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenFish66View Post

I like to believe that those who knowingly, willfully , pollute are a dwindling minority ...

I certainly hope so!
 
petros
#163
Quote:

I like to believe that those who knowingly, willfully , pollute are a dwindling minority ...

As we speak oil refining capacity in Nor Am is being doubled. For the time being you are going to have to hang on tight to that deminishing belief. Heavy consumption of oil is going to continue along like it has for the past 135 years.
 
darkbeaver
#164
Oil is god, around ninety per cent of human activity, as we know and love it today, depend directly on "rock oil" not the mythical squshed dynosaurs and trees known as fossil fuels. We should burn as much as we can get. I suppose we could refine it a little better. Green is soooo yesterday. It's been wrung dry people.

The present is not sustainable, never mind the future, the planet don't need your help, in fact it routinely exterminates millions of us at a time, good stewards and all.
 
YukonJack
#165
The only thing one needs to know about green technology is that there is a virtually unlimited supply of coal.

Spend money on developing clean coal-burning rather than pie-in-the-sky nonsense, like windmills and solar panels.
 
Tonington
#166
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

The only thing one needs to know about green technology is that there is a virtually unlimited supply of coal.

They said that about fish once upon a time. Now Newfoundland is relying on another commodity that some would say is virtually unlimited. Those people apparently take the short view, and don't remember their history very well.
 
darkbeaver
#167
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

They said that about fish once upon a time. Now Newfoundland is relying on another commodity that some would say is virtually unlimited. Those people apparently take the short view, and don't remember their history very well.

The history is extinction events, the fish will return, someday, adapted to swim in industrial affluent. Why not let evolution do it's work. Human intervention may not be the best course of action.
 
Tonington
#168
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

The history is extinction events, the fish will return, someday, adapted to swim in industrial affluent. Why not let evolution do it's work. Human intervention may not be the best course of action.

Are you serious? Human intervention is making them disappear in the first place...
 
YukonJack
#169
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

They said that about fish once upon a time. Now Newfoundland is relying on another commodity that some would say is virtually unlimited. Those people apparently take the short view, and don't remember their history very well.

Scientific surveys confirmed the existence of virtually inexhaustible supply of coal. And natural gas.

BUT....

Nobody ever counted the fish. Nobody ever thought that the world would be insane enough to stop the seal hunt.

Those who think of the more than hundred year supply of coal and oil as a "short term" solution, should think about all the conveniences that were not there a hundred years ago.
 
Tonington
+2
#170
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

Scientific surveys confirmed the existence of virtually inexhaustible supply of coal. And natural gas.

BUT....

Nobody ever counted the fish. Nobody ever thought that the world would be insane enough to stop the seal hunt.

What do you mean nobody ever counted the fish? Of course they did. Not only that, but variations in age/size, and age at maturity preceded stock collapse. Anyone who knows anything about fishery management will tell you that a secular downward trend in the age at maturity is a sign of stock stress. It wasn't even uncommon for harvesting rates to exceed 60% of the mature stock in many of the populations, a factor of three higher than recommendations of even questionable calculations for sustainable harvest limits.

Quote:

Those who think of the more than hundred year supply of coal and oil as a "short term" solution, should think about all the conveniences that were not there a hundred years ago.

It's not a solution to use a supply that is peaking, and it's definitely not a solution to use a supply that kills ocean life. More to the point, we have technology today that wasn't available when our energy infrastructure was being created. For instance, smart grids. Smart grids are green, and inherently more stable than the patchwork we have in North America.
 
GreenFish66
#171
Turtle, bird in crosshairs of 'green' project | Ontario | News | Toronto Sun - Sounds like a Green On Green Smear Washing Article(/Campaign) to me....

-------------------------

Let's compare Wind/Solar to say ...Oil/Coal?....Tar Sands...?

-------------------

The Wind Power site hasn't been approved yet..So there's still time to Move it..To An Area Outside the Endangered, Habitat Preservation , Rehabilatation and Improvement , Project Site/Location....
Last edited by GreenFish66; May 15th, 2011 at 08:29 PM..
 
damngrumpy
#172
Today's smart business people have already hijacked the environmental cause.
Using the term Green in their world is to repeat the famous quote by the old ring
master, PT Barnum "There's a sucker born every minute" Today more than
ever it proving to be true. All this new manufactured product lines have a green
label and a green price to match it. Business doesn't give a hoot about the
environment, they care about repackaging every product in the world into a green
package so they can make money, end of story.
I for one am all for supporting the environment but not at the expense of being out
right fleeced by corporate snake oil salesman. Sorry I don't buy into changing our
today to suit the world of tomorrow with green grass roofs and all the rest. I
support proper insulation and even the thermal heating systems buried in the
ground. There is simply no way alternative energy is going to replace electrical
energy from damn or nuclear power.
All this overly green enthusiasm is fine but it will take a hundred years to reach
the era of economic viability.
 
GreenFish66
#173
Things labeled as "Green" ...Should be, Environmentally Friendly, as Labeled.
( Environmentally Minded, in the least)...

The Rest, Should be CleanTech ...
 
damngrumpy
#174
God I love idealism even if there is not a hope in hell of it achieving its goals.
Somewhere on here I read get ready for mass produced local food, now that
is funny. Most of the local food folks that I have spoken to also want it to be
organic. Let me explain the some of the problems. Organic supply has its
place I agree with that, but it can't produce enough to feed local or the world.

People have no idea how complex the food industrial system is from farmer
grown to the supper table, and the idealists would be in for one huge shock
when the whole thing collapses around them and millions of angry people
waiting for dinner are not going to be too forgiving, especially when the new
sympathetic governments assist them in dismantling the present system.
I have have been involved in the food industry for a long time and part of the
politics of farming as well. I agree we need to have local farming practices
and we need to educate people on nutrition. We need organics but we can't
really trust the organic industry either these days. It is not about organic food
or even trusted healthy food. Organics today is all about paperwork and its
an honour based system. It need to be cleaned up. If you want some interesting
reading try a book called Is it Organic by Mischa Poppoff a former organic
inspector.
As for energy, I agree we have to look for new and better ways to sustain our
energy needs and we should look for clean alternatives to augment the present
system. But to suggest we are going to transform society anytime soon is not
bloody likely, we won't see the idealist changes even in our lifetime.
People who have the fancy dreams of just changing everything lose credibility
for their goals and for the environmental movement in general.
Green and clean tech, needs to be economical viable and at present that isn't
even close.
 
GreenFish66
#175
Thanks to The Green Revolution ...We feed The Populations...

Sorry to say it , Damned Grumpy ,but, You seem to have Been Disillusioned Into a Permanent state of DamnedGrumpyiness...Got DamnedGrumpyitis..

- Look Around ..Everywhere..Here, There ..By Every, has, was, been , Over There, ...Still Is ...and Always Shall be ....

Green/Clean Tech ....
-----
(And Big Papa G..( Big Papa G always 1st,#1 though, of course.All Bless, God Bless.))
Last edited by GreenFish66; May 15th, 2011 at 11:55 PM..
 
damngrumpy
+1
#176
Greenfish 66 I am not dissolution at all I am a realist. while I am pleased that
people are starting to pay attention to the environment, I understand that the
people are treading water always waiting for the next big thing. In farming the
BC Fruit Growers Association is working on the concept of an ALPP for the
interior when it comes to tree fruits. It is a system of integrated pest management
that will see less pesticides used in order to reduce populations of pests etc.
Its called the Area of Low Pest Prevalence. It uses all kinds of technology including
the SIR program. What is that you ask? It is a program paid for by municipalities
and the farm community that uses Sterile Insect Technology and other environmental
methods to control codling moth. It is reducing the need for sprays and eventually will
eliminate the need to spray for that particular pest. We are also looking to expand
the program to move toward reduction of harmful sprays. In addition more and more
target sprays are being used. This is where you might kill the rosy aphid but it won't
kill ladybugs and other beneficial. I am a voting member of the SIR Board one of three
farmer members.
I have also been the pest management chairman for the organization in the past.
I know all about green and the approach being used. Unfortunately the present lords
of industry don't give a damn about the environment it is little more than public relations
for them to increase their market share, and consumers have to be aware so they are
not hoodwinked.
I think the idea that change is going to come soon and will come in like a revolution has
the opposite effect from enthusiasm. People are frightened by change coming too fast
and some are afraid of change period. It is far better to slow it down a bit and ensure
every change has a chance to root and grow within the societies idea of progress,
I am not against you I think you have to temper enthusiasm with reality and progress.
 
Bar Sinister
+1
#177
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

The only thing one needs to know about green technology is that there is a virtually unlimited supply of coal.

Spend money on developing clean coal-burning rather than pie-in-the-sky nonsense, like windmills and solar panels.


That might be true, but what we don't have is an unlimited supply of clean air.
 
GreenFish66
#178
Green/CleanTech was then/ Is more so now/ Will only Grow, in the future.


Realism is what we Human Creationists Observe/Make of it..

The Time for Green/Clean Tech was then, is more so now.

Dirty Grey Smoke and Smog, Forced True Positive Change and Progress to grow in the shadows, sprout in the shade, under soot and greasy slime...
Yet True, Positive Change/New Energy, Does not/Will never, burn out, fade away, die out, like dirty Ol' Negative Energy will..

Green/Clean Tech will Only Grow stronger. Expand, Thrive..Succeed...

For The Guiding light is Green , the Future is Clear..
Change is inevitable..
(Although You don't have to change, until you have to..)
Better to be prepared..Then caught off guard..

Green/Clean Tech, was then, is Now ...It is the only way of ensuring a Sustainable/Prosperous Future for all .
Things are changing for the better.(I believe)

Despite the Choking, Burning, Blinding, Grey Clouds of Negativity ..

Peace..
Last edited by GreenFish66; Jun 6th, 2011 at 12:55 PM..
 
GreenFish66
#179
Clinton, executive ties raised in pipeline plan - US news - Environment - msnbc.com (external - login to view)

I think it's time the Obama administration takes a stroll in some GREENER pastures for a change.. ..Promote some Green/Clean Tech...Something/Anything positive for the Environment we ALL inhabit..His record on the Green/Clean Tech Front has been dismal, to say the least, as far as I can see.( Smog and grime in my eyes)..Times are changing Pres.O....Time to get with the times...If The US People wanted a Republican Prez, they would have voted in a Republican ...

There is no Bright Future, no light at the end of the Pipeline, for Canada/US/ American's In ol' Dirty Oil ...

Green/Clean Tech is Now ...Is the Only Sustainable/Prosperous future...
Last edited by GreenFish66; Oct 11th, 2011 at 09:33 AM..
 
GreenFish66
#180
Get your Green Grown " Hot Potatoes " Here !

Hillary Clinton says Keystone XL review fair - *News - MSN CA (external - login to view) - " Keystone XL has become a political hot potato for the State Department "


...Dodging Green Hot Potatoes leaves some hot under the collar , gasping for air , while others sit to take a breather on the hot seat ...As XL Oil pipeline heats things up ..A lot of Green House gases spewing from the mouths of Republican's( Republican Politicians/Fat Cats) nowadays..

.Just say No to XL PipeLine...There is no Sustainable/Prosperous Future in Ol' Dirty Oil ...( except perhaps 4 a very wealthy, quickly aging , few )
Last edited by GreenFish66; Oct 11th, 2011 at 07:30 PM..
 

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