We Need Consumer/Retail Free Trade

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
This article purports to discuss the risks of shopping south of the border. It's really about how there is no consumer/retail free trade, only corporate free trade. National free trade deals are for big corporations, not small business nor consumers.

Personnally, I don't understand why there is any duty to pay at a border for a product a consumer buys. From anywhere in the world. So we don't really have free trade if we can't cross a border and buy what we want and not pay duty on it.

I had a small business a few years ago and the red tape to get products from the US was a holy hassle and a half. That is, expensive, with duties to pay.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Buyer+beware+when+shopping+south+border/2361557/story.html
Buyer beware when shopping south of the border


By Don Cayo, Vancouver SunDecember 19, 2009


The good news for cross-border shoppers is that prices -- on average, although not necessarily for every single thing you buy -- are quite a bit lower in the U.S. than in Canada.

But a UBC prof who tracks not only international currency fluctuations but also how much each currency can buy at home says there's bad news as well for Canadian cross-border shoppers: A lower sticker price won't always save you money.
You can assume some additional costs when you shop in the U.S., whether in person or online, says Werner Antweiler of the Sauder School of Business. And there may be surprises.

"So it's buyer beware."

The value of Canada's dollar compared to the U.S. greenback is just one factor if you're thinking about heading south to shop. Purchasing power parity (PPP) -- a comparison of what two countries' currencies can actually buy -- is as important as the official exchange rate.

And Antweiler's data shows that, while the exchange rate has been volatile in recent years, PPP has been remarkably stable. It's currently about 85 cents -- just one or two cents more than a few years ago when our dollar was very weak.
Thus when the Canadian dollar dipped to not much more than 60 cents in the early part of this decade, it was sorely under-valued. That meant U.S. prices were high in comparison to ours.

Now the tables have turned. For more than two years our buck has hovered not far short of parity -- on Friday it was almost 94 cents US -- yet price comparisons say it should be just 85 cents. This means it can buy more than the "real" value of goods on U.S. store shelves.

A couple of years ago, this effect was exaggerated on many products with nationwide prices -- things like cars or electronics -- that are set well in advance and heavily advertised. The prices at that time were set when our dollar was low. So when it suddenly caught up to, and even briefly surpassed, the American dollar, these prices were way out of line.

The difference isn't so great today. As the value of the Canadian and U.S. dollars moved much closer together, so did the manufacturer's suggested retail prices on most products.

On the cost side, however, you either must travel to the U.S. or pay shipping charges to buy online. Depending on what you buy and how much, those costs can eat up any savings.

And then there are duties, which can be surprisingly steep, even in this era of free trade.

Canada Border Services Agency notes there is no exemption for same-day shopping trips. And you can bring back only $50 worth of exempt goods after 24 hours, $400 after 48, and $750 after seven days.

When they say 24 or 48 hours, by the way, they mean it. A couple of years ago I spent two days in the New England states. I picked up a bottle of very good, very well-priced scotch. But it turns out I'd spent only 45 hours abroad, and thus it cost more than $40 extra in duty. Suddenly, the bottle wasn't such a bargain.
Antweiler has a couple of similar cautionary tales. When he bought a sweater online, for example, he was unexpectedly dinged with 18-per-cent duty because it turned out to have been manufactured offshore, even though it was sold by a U.S. retailer.
And duty was also an issue when he and his wife had a pricey stroller shipped home from Europe. Despite their exemption for having been away on an extended holiday, they had to pay the duty to take delivery. They are eligible for a refund, to be sure, but several weeks later they're still waiting.

"So there are some cheaper prices," Antweiler says. "But often you have to put a very low value on your time to make it worthwhile."

dcayo@vancouversun.com Visit Don Cayo's blogs, one on taxation issues and one on globalization, at www.vancouversun.com/blogs © Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
The duty rate depends on where the goods are manufactured, not where they are purchased.

It doesn't matter if you're a consumer or a retailer.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
It matters where goods are manufactured? Why?

Free trade means there is less and less gov't interference in the free market. That's the philosophy, not the practice. We can more products from farther and farther away due to the internet.

Isn't the customer supposed to be king? Don't we live in a consumer economy?

And what if you want to buy coffee or pineapples? Or a German car?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Try buying a Canadian banana or a Canadian llama wool blanket.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Thousands of lammas here in Alberta,they make excellent pack animals and pets but I dont know if they make blankets from their fur.
Yeah, alpacas and llamas are being farmed here in the past decade or so. The products are bloody expensive, though.
No Canadian bananas? Pineapples? A Canadian bloodwood jewelry box?
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
It matters where goods are manufactured? Why?

We have free trade with countries that we have agreements with that create a level field. Due to the autopact and NAFTA, cars built in Canada/US/Mexico can be bought duty free, but cars from Japan carry duty. We don't allow stuff in duty free from places where they don't allow our stuff in duty free.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Yeah, alpacas and llamas are being farmed here in the past decade or so. The products are bloody expensive, though.
No Canadian bananas? Pineapples? A Canadian bloodwood jewelry box?
I remember seeing a sign years ago (in Osoyoos?) saying they grew bananas in green houses.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
I remember seeing a sign years ago (in Osoyoos?) saying they grew bananas in green houses.
Really? I suppose if you spend the money getting the greenhouse conditions just right; with full-spectrum lights, humidity, temperature, and all that stuff just right. Not quite sure they'd be cheap to produce or buy, though. Same with oranges, mangoes, and any other relatively tropical fruits. Acres and acres of banana trees in greenhouses instead of apple trees out in the weather? hhmmm
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Yes, I think the bananas were just a novelty item. Probably just a few trees. Something for the touri to gawk at.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
It does matter where the goods are made. It also matters what we as
citizens are doing supporting other economies in a large way that
deprive our nation of taxes. America is a prime example of backward
thinking when it comes to medicare for example. Our tax dollars are
supporting medicare, education, and other programs, many the US
citizens still lack. I'm not saying you can't pick up good deals on a
holiday in another nation, it becomes a problem only when we chose to
do all our shopping outside the country. We should not be seeking
free trade deals we should be seeking fair trade deals so people on both
sides of the boarder can benefit. Here is an example we pay for auto's and
appliances way more than we should. The Americans pay for prescription
drugs way more than we do, even though the drugs are manufactured in the
States and are the same materials we use here. Fair trade would see all
consumers paying roughly the same for comparable products in the market
place.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Those who live on the border would many times cross the border to fill up gas, gas is cheaper in USA. And of course there is no duty on it. You could save substantial change on a tankful of gas.

As to purchases, again it depends upon what you buy. If you buy a few groceries, milk, bread etc. and bring it back, I was told the Custom officials usually won’t bother you, they will just let you through.

Alcohol or expensive items may be a different story.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,195
8,035
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Books are my Hang-up. I read a lot. Mostly pocketbooks that use to have the
dual American/Canadian prices on them. When the Canadian dollar hit $1.10
USD a couple years back....pocketbooks still cost several dollars more in
Canada without even taking the exchange into account.

To remove that bias, at the time it was claimed that the books are purchased
months in advance and that's why the prices where fixed, but very quickly the
American prices where dropped off the book jackets leaving only the Canadian
prices. The American prices can still be looked up online, and those prices are
still several dollars less than the Canadian prices, regardless of the exchange
rates. Very uncool....even with the Canadian & American currencies being so
close to each other for a couple of years now.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,195
8,035
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
I'm tough on books. I tend to read until I fall asleep, and I've woke up with books
stuck in the middle of my back (not good for the books). By the time I get through
a book, due to the way I hold them, I tend to also break the spines. A book almost
doubles in size (the none spine side) by the time I finish most books. Libraries
don't seem to like that. I buy or trade for my books.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
I don't tend to read much fiction. Most of my books are reference books so I like to keep them. Since I self publish my own books and have them printed in the states, I don't have a two price policy. I don't even put a price on them as price of printing fluctuates with the dollar too.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
It does matter where the goods are made. It also matters what we as
citizens are doing supporting other economies in a large way that
deprive our nation of taxes. America is a prime example of backward
thinking when it comes to medicare for example. Our tax dollars are
supporting medicare, education, and other programs, many the US
citizens still lack. I'm not saying you can't pick up good deals on a
holiday in another nation, it becomes a problem only when we chose to
do all our shopping outside the country. We should not be seeking
free trade deals we should be seeking fair trade deals so people on both
sides of the boarder can benefit. Here is an example we pay for auto's and
appliances way more than we should. The Americans pay for prescription
drugs way more than we do, even though the drugs are manufactured in the
States and are the same materials we use here. Fair trade would see all
consumers paying roughly the same for comparable products in the market
place.

We can't do all our shopping outside Canada. Shipping costs add to the price of a product to prevent it. And groceries, most people buy locally.

We had a complex protection system for autos and look what happened. And we have lost so many other manufacturing jobs over the decades despite complex rules.

Capital can flow across borders with impunity, but not goods. I would wager most of the people here consume goods every day than trade capital. Business gets what it wants, but not the consumer. The reek of capitalist lackeyism is getting odious.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
Books are my Hang-up. I read a lot. Mostly pocketbooks that use to have the
dual American/Canadian prices on them. When the Canadian dollar hit $1.10
USD a couple years back....pocketbooks still cost several dollars more in
Canada without even taking the exchange into account.

To remove that bias, at the time it was claimed that the books are purchased
months in advance and that's why the prices where fixed, but very quickly the
American prices where dropped off the book jackets leaving only the Canadian
prices. The American prices can still be looked up online, and those prices are
still several dollars less than the Canadian prices, regardless of the exchange
rates. Very uncool....even with the Canadian & American currencies being so
close to each other for a couple of years now.
The store I work in sells a lot of books. There was a brief time where the books held only the Canadian price. Now (unless they are from Britain) the books once again have both prices on them. The Canadian price as always, is higher. Books from Britain have USA prices and British pounds but no Canadian prices. Kind of odd really. The way the store handles that is by putting our own sticker onto the front of the book. Actually, we sell British magazines more than we do books. For the most part, we sell books for less $ then Chapters which is right across the street from us.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
In regard to shopping outside of Canada, I was taken back when a number of customers said they did their Christmas shopping months ago in the USA because everything is so much cheaper there. We just never go there for any reason.