Braidwood Inquiry Tuesday in Vancouver.

Braidwood Inquiry Tuesday in Vancouver.

Photograph by: Ian Smith, Vancouver Sun

VANCOUVER - Two senior Mounties gave conflicting testimony at the Braidwood inquiry Tuesday about an e-mail sent following the death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski at Vancouver International Airport.
Chief Supt. Dick Bent testified the e-mail he sent — which concerned the four officers involved in the incident — was accurate.
But Supt. Wayne Rideout, the officer in charge of the investigation into Dziekanski’s death, said Bent’s recollection of a conversation they had, summarized in the e-mail, was wrong.
Dziekanski died Oct. 14, 2007 after a confrontation with the officers during which he was zapped five times with a Taser.
Bent sent the e-mail on Nov. 5, 2007 to Assistant Commissioner Al Macintyre under the subject line “Media Strategy — Release of YVR video.”
Bent’s e-mail said: “Finally spoke to Wayne [Rideout] and he indicated that the members did not articulate that they saw the symptoms of excited delirium, but instead had discussed the response en route and decided that if he did not comply that they would go to CEW [conducted energy weapon].”
The e-mail brought the inquiry to a sudden halt when it was first disclosed last June because it contradicted the testimony of the four officers involved in Dziekanski’s death — Constables Bill Bentley, Kwesi Millington, Gerry Rundel and Cpl. Monty Robinson said they had no discussions before arriving at the airport.
The e-mail caused a further investigation and resulted in another 18,000 RCMP documents being disclosed to the inquiry, which is probing the Dziekanski’s death. The 40-year-old, who spoke no English, had spent hours at the airport trying to find his mother, who was to meet him upon his arrival from Poland.
When Dziekanski became agitated and began throwing things around, the four officers arrived. Seconds later, Millington deployed the Taser five times and the officers handcuffed Dziekanski, who died at the scene.
Bent, who plans to retire in two weeks after 35 years with the force, testified his e-mail was an accurate reflection of his conversation with Rideout.
Although he had no notes of the conversation, he said he wrote the e-mail “very quickly after our conversation.”
But he admitted under questioning by Rideout’s lawyer, Alex Pringle, that he could have misunderstood parts of what Rideout had said.
Rideout testified that while Bent was a highly respected senior officer, his e-mail was wrong.
“The last paragraph is inaccurate,” Rideout testified. “The IHIT [Integrated Homicide Investigation Team] investigation found no evidence whatsoever of any plan to deploy the CEW [conducted energy weapon].”
Cross-examined by Don Rosenbloom, the lawyer representing the government of Poland, Rideout admitted he said during an internal investigation that it was time for an independent agency, similar to the Special Investigations Unit in Ontario, to take over investigating police-involved deaths in B.C.
The officer testified that while the investigation into Dziekanski’s death was thorough and impartial, the public perception is that it was biased.
“The perception is the problem,” Rideout testified. “And it’s going to get worse.”
Outside court, RCMP spokesman Sgt. Tim Shields said the RCMP’s commanding officer in B.C., Deputy Commissioner Gary Bass, has expressed similar sentiments. “We’re aware of the optics of police investigating police,” he said, “and we are in discussions with the provincial government.”
Rosenbloom said outside court that he finds it “troubling” that there was contradictory evidence by two senior Mounties, which the inquiry commissioner will have to resolve in his final report.
The inquiry will continue today with another police witness and two civilians.
VANCOUVER - RCMP Supt. Dick Bent told the Braidwood Inquiry into Robert Dziekanski's death that an email he sent to another senior RCMP officer was an accurate description of his conversation with a homicide investigator.
The email in question, sent Nov. 5, 2007 to commissioner Al Mcintyre, suggests the officers involved in Dziekanski's death discussed using a conducted energy weapon en route to the airport.
The email wasn't brought to Braidwood's attention until the day closing arguements were slated to begin in June and caused a lengthy delay.
On the stand Tuesday, Bent was probed about how the email came about.
"We knew that when the video was released that anyone viewing that video would feel that members used the CEW quickly," Bent told the inquiry. "We needed that explanation to develop our (media) strategy."
So Bent spoke with lead investigator Sup. Wayne Rideout for a synopsis of the officer's decision to Taser Dziekanski.
At the time, he was told the officers didn't make any notes about Dziekanski showing signs of "excited delirium" and that they discussed a plan of action, including the possibility of using a CEW, before arriving at the airport.
"I believe what I had written here accurately reflected my conversation with Sup. Rideout," Bent told the Inquiry.
The Inquiry continues throughout the week.
B.C. police chiefs call for civilian-led officer investigations

Last Updated: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 | 3:26 PM PT Comments34Recommend17

CBC News

RCMP Supt. Bill McKinnon, in his role as head of the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police, is calling for civilian oversight of investigations of alleged police misconduct. (CBC)RCMP brass in B.C. and the chiefs of several municipal police forces say it is time the provincial government set up a new independent agency to investigate allegations of misconduct by police officers.
RCMP Supt. Bill McKinnon said a new civilian-led agency is needed to restore public confidence in police in the province. That confidence has been eroded as a result of several controversial investigations of deaths involving police, including that of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski in Vancouver and Ian Bush in Houston, in the northern B.C. Interior.
The agency should investigate incidents of death or serious injury involving police, as well as serious allegations of misconduct against officers, McKinnon said at a news conference at RCMP headquarters in Vancouver on Wednesday.
McKinnon said the B.C. police chiefs are looking to follow the model used in Alberta, where police officers do the investigations but a civilian leads the team.
McKinnon's comments came one day after another senior B.C. Mountie said police in the province should not investigate themselves anymore because the public no longer believes they are doing a good job.
"We are not perceived publicly to be able to investigate ourselves," RCMP Supt. Wayne Rideout told the Braidwood inquiry. "The perception and the reporting that occurs is unwinnable."
The Braidwood inquiry, which resumed Tuesday, is investigating the RCMP's role in Dziekanski's death in 2007.
B.C. already has an Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner, but the civilian agency can respond only to complaints from the public made against officers in 15 municipal police forces. The office has no jurisdiction over the RCMP, which is the only police force in rural areas and in many cities in B.C.
In Between Man
Why are you re-opening the wound of this tragic event when the nation is trying to grieve, learn, and move on from the YVR incident?

Shame! Shame! Shame!

How many people have been "accidently" killed by authorities in your nation????

when the nation is trying to grieve, learn, and move on from the YVR incident?

Obviously you aren't learning very much .The chapter one is still open .....and

How many people have been "accidently" killed by authorities in your nation????

..... you are already searching for an excuse typical of your nation .
The entire issue is a major & tragic blunder by the RCMP.
lone wolf
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

Obviously you aren't learning very much .The chapter one is still open .....and
..... you are already searching for an excuse typical of your nation .

What do you have against the lengthy process of seeking truth?

...and why is it "our country" when you're feeling weepy but "your nation" when things aren't going as quickly as you'd like or the way you want?
Last edited by lone wolf; Sep 24th, 2009 at 11:52 AM..

What do you have against the lengthy process of seeking truth?

I truly don't know what you are talking about.There is no such thing as seeking truth , truth either is or isn't , the present ,from moment to moment .

the lengthy process of seeking truth?

I think what you mean by the above statement is .." a lengthy process
of inventing truth".
...yes I have few things against it.
lone wolf
That's why they're asking questions. I think you have things confused with what goes on in your beloved China. We even get to hear about Braidwood on our own news channels. We're not kept like mushrooms here. CNN will see to that....
No such thing as seeking truth? lmao There's no point in introspection either then because that would lead to the myth of truth of oneself. There's no point to science either. Anything it discovers obviously isn't the truth. There's no point to asking questions like, "How are you doing?", "What time is it?", "When did you get that dog?", etc. roflmao Speaking of mushrooms, I guess they have psilocybins in China, too.
lone wolf


We're not kept like mushrooms here.

Perhaps not like mushrooms ;but you are kept and you don't even know it ..

CNN will see to that....

Here in Qingdao province of Shandong , China , beside having aprox 60 chanels ( private and/or public..some in English in Russsian ,Japanese south Korean ) I also subscribe to Fox >ESPN and CNN .....SO What ? --- are you ever kept.
Last edited by china; Sep 25th, 2009 at 01:17 AM..
lone wolf
Sorry, China.... You haven't a clue about what you speak. You just speak.
lone wolf


Sorry, China.... You haven't a clue about what you speak. You just speak.

Is this as 'intelligent' as you can get ?

QUOTE]No such thing as seeking truth? lmao ,

"How are you doing?", "What time is it?", "When did you get that dog?", etc. ro[/QUOTE]

Allot of truth in that .
If you want to know the truth, if you really want to understand it directly, now, how do you approach it? Surely you must feel akin to the problem, you must not be afraid of it, you must not have any creed, any answer, between yourself and the problem. Only when you are directly in relationship with the problem will you find the answer. If you introduce an answer, if you judge, have a psychological disinclination, then you will postpone, you will prepare to understand tomorrow what can only be understood in the `now'. Therefore you will never understand. To perceive truth needs no preparation; preparation implies time and time is not the means of understanding truth. Time is continuity and truth is timeless, non-continuous. Understanding is non-continuous, it is from moment to moment.
lone wolf
Quote: Originally Posted by chinaView Post

lone wolf

Is this as 'intelligent' as you can get ?

With you? Yes. It wouldn't be polite to have two people publicly humiliating you.
Most people who think that they are seeking truth have already prepared their minds for its reception by studying descriptions of what they are seeking. When you examine religions and philosophies, you find that they have all tried to describe reality; they have tried to describe truth .
Last edited by china; Sep 25th, 2009 at 08:39 AM..
lone woolf


With you? Yes. It wouldn't be polite to have two people publicly humiliating you.

Haha I know what you mean .Where you come from it takes four to "humiliate"one, right ? At least you are sticking to the topic of the thread . ..that is if it's not too hard for you to understand .
lone wolf
You're the Polish joke.

ETA: It's easy enough to understand what's going on at Braidwood. Here, we don't summarily execute anyone. What those Mounties did was wrong. They compound the wrong by lying about it. Over the lengthy process, they've been tattling on themselves as the story falls apart.

Now ... is that simple enough for you to grasp ... or should I use smaller words and colouring book images?
Last edited by lone wolf; Sep 25th, 2009 at 09:05 AM..
deleted the post guy's too smart for me ,hate to see him use the BIG words.
Last edited by china; Sep 25th, 2009 at 09:37 AM..
Here we go again. The only source of evidence that tells the whole truth of what happened is the video. Again, for those who cannot accept that fact, the video does not lie. It does not change its story every time it is replayed. It is so explicit in revealing what happened even children know the truth.
There was no need for a three month delay. The truth was known back in June. The testimony that has just been delivered is just a continuation of what we have already seen from the RCMP. Maybe a lie detector connected to a taser might bring forth evidence that does not contradict what is seen in the video.
Canada Customs and YVR staff are also responsible for this tragic and senseless death. It could have been prevented if people had just done what they were paid to do. There is more than enough blame to go around, but ultimately the actions of 4 police officers were the direct cause of Mr. Dziekanski's death. The entire world knows the truth of what happened. That will not change regardless of who said what in an e-mail. Lets get on with the disciplinary action. Lynch the bastards .
lone wolf
Do you have OCD?
Ron in Regina
#23'll be at least October 5th now before things start up again with the
oral closing arguments, to get any idea (maybe) as to which way the wind
will be blowing....& well into next year before the report is released, and
well after that before many (or any) of the recommendations are implemented.

I was hoping this would have been resolved and procedures to prevent a
repeat of this event in place before the Winter Olympics...but it doesn't look
that way.

With that in mind, and Athletes (& their entourage) coming into Vancouver
from all over the Globe, expect foreign governments to have private security
traveling with their citizens to prevent another incident like this travesty. The
airport security folks better watch their P's&Q's or they might preemptively
end up very broken on the floor by someone with Diplomatic Immunity who's
there to prevent another Taser-type execution. Lots of ex-Spetsnaz for hire
in the private security industry.

The Braidwood Inquiry isn't a local issue, and the World has been watching
this Goat-Rodeo as the countdown ticks away to the 2010 Winter Olympics.
The Fact that Kiwi_NZ or China or BlackLeaf may know as much or more
about the Braidwood Inquiry than many Canadians really isn't that surprising.
You know, what annoys me about what happened is that the RCMP guy that was in charge had been convicted of DUI a little while beforehand. That to me, displays bad judgement on his part. Yet the RCMP brass made him senior constable in charge? The entire issue has been fumbled badly by the RCMP from the start.
I swear 3/4 of the people in Canada need a reality check and more so for judges, gov't people, politicians, etc.
lone wolf
It's time to get rid of the Dudley Do-Right image. Our system always has been geared more toward conviction than justice. We look at the bad, bad USA and sneer, where in reality, our law-makers and laws enforcers are just the same. The powers that be are just a lot sneakier about it.
Ron in Regina
We give police huge responsibilities and great power over other citizens. In return,
we expect real accountability. That we are not seeing when the "Police police the
Police," as this Inquiry (or 10 minutes of your time to watch the video yourself) has

The system has been broken and smelly for a long time, but only those that had to
deal with it directly (as a non-criminal victim, or Family of a non-criminal victim at
the hands of Law Enforcement) discovered this....and if they said anything, they
where labeled as Cop-Haters and worse by those that still could hide behind the
lone wolf
That's what happens when lawyers write the rules.
Ron in Regina
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

That's what happens when lawyers write the rules.

...or you're flagged in the system due to conflict due to an interaction by yourself,
a Family member, or having actually registered a complaint at one time. Sounds
paranoid, but that only applies if it isn't true.
lone wolf
Sounds paranoid? Only to the hoodwinked. How many people are discredited as nuts for taking on the law? We have lawmakers/enforcers who have Santa Claus faith in a Crown that can do no wrong. Anyone who'd soil that image simply HAS to be crazy.
Ron in Regina
Just like a code tied to an address for a Utility Company noting "big dogs on premises,"
I'm sure Law Enforcement uses a similar code tied to individuals (& their families) that
have filed a complaint to the Public Complaints Commissioner to label someone as a
low priority Cop Hater, who'll be treated in a adversarial manner and a last priority basis.

I've seen the reaction a CPIC inquiry makes to treatment of a non-criminal even reporting
a crime, if in the past they've ever felt the need to file a complaint with a Public Complaints
Commissioner. It's a Night & Day change. This only seems to happen with the local force,
and not other forces (National, Provincial, State, etc...). Oh well....

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