AUTO WORKERS - What am I missing?

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I don't believe I'm getting it right but I did catch a news flash on the T.V. today saying autoworkers have agreed to a wage cut to $57.00 an hour!! Can someone please enlighten me. I have two sons in B.C. both professionals who are scrambling to keep working and are exstatic when they get work in the $20-$25 an hour range. What's the score anyway, workers in S. Ontario just a bunch of whiners or what? Or is my hearing suffering?
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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Lower Mainland, BC
I don't believe I'm getting it right but I did catch a news flash on the T.V. today saying autoworkers have agreed to a wage cut to $57.00 an hour!! Can someone please enlighten me. I have two sons in B.C. both professionals who are scrambling to keep working and are exstatic when they get work in the $20-$25 an hour range. What's the score anyway, workers in S. Ontario just a bunch of whiners or what? Or is my hearing suffering?


I think they are calculating the benefits included in that package JLM.. So as an example if your son makes $25.00 / hr and gets dental, medical and a pension plan it is prorated at a set rate of say ( est.$50.00 / hr ) with the package. As we cannot determine was a package is unless we know the fine details ( how much dental, medical and pension is included ) it of course could vary from $35.00 / yr to the $50.00 / yr I mentioned.. Also these car guys get layoff benefit packages and severance deals included so it makes it even more complicated..

Does that make sense ?

General Motors workers in Southern Ontario have voted to approve a labour concession package tonight, with 86 per cent supporting the plan.

Workers' pension benefits will now be frozen until 2015, and labour costs will be cut by $15 to $16 through extensive cuts to benefits.

"Although we were forced to make a number of important sacrifices, the support we received from our members is proof that they recognize the incredible challenges the industry is facing, but more importantly that they are prepared to stand by each other and stand with their union," CAW national president Ken Lewenza said in a statement.

CTV.ca | GM workers approve deal; 86 per cent vote yes
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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$40/hr for skilled trade workers? I guess all this talk about high paid auto workers can be put to rest.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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"Does that make sense ?"- Yes and no. All the years I worked our pension contribution was 5% and the employer kicked in another 5%. I don't know what medical and dental ins. for a family is worth but I'm sure $2000 annually for each would cover it. Then you have the 6% holiday pay. I think I'm still coming up short??????????
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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The overall package originally included direct hourly wages, perks/benefits to active employees as well as proportional benefits made available to the retired auto workers.

Part of that 'found' money originates from the benefits directed at the retired auto workers. There are number of benefits that were extended to the former auto workers. These elements were negotiated while they (now retired) were still active employees.

The initial arrangement was never realistic. One can't blame the union for trying to get as much as possible, however, they are completely guilty of abject stupidity if they ever believed that the arrangement was sustainable in the medium and long run.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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I have no problem with the auto workers making thirty-something dollars an hour.........

I do have a problem with Ontario allowing the car companies to NOT pay into the retirement fund for the past 5 plus years.

I am impressed the CAW took the hit, and refused to off-load it on to the pensioners..........
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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I'm confused. The big three have been producing crappy cars for decades. How can their workers be considered skilled? Or do we lay the blame on the engineers? Or faulty materials?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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I have no problem with the auto workers making thirty-something dollars an hour.........

I do have a problem with Ontario allowing the car companies to NOT pay into the retirement fund for the past 5 plus years.

I am impressed the CAW took the hit, and refused to off-load it on to the pensioners..........



There are/were a number of companies that made application to the feds/prov to alter their pension contributions. To my understanding, it had to do with the company's ability to remain liquid and not be forced to make dramatic changes.

As far as the CAW is concerned, they really had no choice in the matter. In fact, the union would have been fully aware of the corporate actions in decreasing the pension levels... The real question is: Why did the union allow this and what did they know?
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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I'm confused. The big three have been producing crappy cars for decades. How can their workers be considered skilled? Or do we lay the blame on the engineers? Or faulty materials?

They are probably talking about maintenance(plumbers, electricians, millwrights, etc.). They actually have to obtain work tickets to perform work at most places.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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I do have a problem with Ontario allowing the car companies to NOT pay into the retirement fund for the past 5 plus years.

It's not just Ontario, there are some federally regulated companies in Canada, and many in the US, that under fund their pension plans. It is either legal, or not so illegal that anyone can or will do anything about it. Therein lies the problem of defined benefit pension plans, they are owned by the company. If the company goes under the employees are the last in line of all creditors, and guess what they end up with?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Pssst. They don't work a full work week. Would you all be happier if they were on EI on your nickle? Or perhaps it can be blamed on the Japs and Germans. Instead of using airplanes have Mitsubishi and BWM staged an economic Pearl Harbour? I doubt the JAWU or IG Metall workers unions in those countries would agree. If you buy a car through GMAC which in the end is equal to the cost of two cars do the union wages get factored into that second "interest car" as well? Or maybe they buuild **** these days and consumers are voting with their feet? Why is canada the only country without it's own line of autos? The 3.4 million vehicles a year are sold in Canada indicates a clear market but under NAFTA we can't. What seperates Ford from the others that they turned down help? Is it that there really is no troubles or should Ford management be hailed as miracle workers?

The last person to blamed in all this is the worker.

If you don't like what someone else is getting paid go get an education or suck your way to the top like everyone else.
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
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Auot unions have become useless middle men

Unions lost their uselfulness back in the 90's. when they became a glorified middle man.Temp agencies moved in, EI and other gov programs changed to bend for industry ...Unions work mostly in the auto industry and gov(ndp mostly) interests...Now they own a large percentage of gm..(which could still go bankrupt )...Which means workers have no clue what is really goin on..Until a misinformed/uneducated union rep tells you...Unions are on there way out..give'm 5yrs if that....This auto restructuring is far from over...Best to go work for toyota ,or Honda even ford right now..

By the time you get hired as a temp...make your two 3 month probations ,work out your contract, get some seniority in the union , then after paying a couple yrs of union dues...you'll get layed off..in a turn over..In the new manufacturing industry..Workers will be lookin for jobs every 2-3 yrs or so...Best to work at getting that college or unversity degree..Only way to find the hidden job market nowadays....Hard to find security with or without unions...Open door policies where you can speak more directly with your employer is alway the best system..

Hint in non -union shop---Buy what you make...Bosses like that..Shows loyalty

Unions are redundent.....But it will take workers another yr or two before they get any useful info and figure it out...

What can you do.?..But try to keep informed...8O;-):lol:
 
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bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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Unions lost their uselfulness back in the 90's. when they became a glorified middle man.

They are still useful, but I would say they lost perspective and direction, among other things. A large company with many employees almost needs a union to ensure all employees are treated fairly and equally. Collective bargaining can help balance the wants of the employees and the needs of the company.

The problem with many unions is that they now seem to work in the best interests of themselves instead of the workers they're supposed to represent. Unions have become behemoths that, like government, extract more from the employees and return less in order to keep the giant union machine running.

Some think bigger is better; I've seen where small groups of employees certified one major union as their bargaining agent only to find that the union bargained higher wages for the larger group of unskilled labourers in favour of lower wages for the smaller group of licensed, skilled tradesmen, kind of a Marxist thing.

It is not only large corporations that need restructuring, I think it's time some unions were made to start over from scratch with more of an eye on who they represent, and another on reality. I have yet to see a company with a union that didn't deserve one.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Never ever should a person be stuck with one set of skills. Same should be said for any sort of production line. If autos aren't selling move on to something that is until the auto demand returns.

What we need is a damn good war to straighten all this out.