Is Islamic finance the answer?

Stretch

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when you think about it, charging us interest on money that doesnt exist is illegal.....

Experts in Islamic finance believe their way of doing business has shielded them from the global credit crisis.
But how does it differ from conventional Western finance?
In practical terms, the most significant difference is that charging interest is not allowed in Islamic finance.


Webmaster's Commentary:
Are western (Jewish) banks losing the "Clash of Civilizations?"

BBC NEWS | Business | Is Islamic finance the answer?
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Somebody posted this in another thread. I don’t think Islamic finance is the answer. However, I have no problem with Islamic finance. If somebody wants to set up an Islamic bank in USA or Canada, nobody is stopping them.

However, one has to be careful here. Islamic bank is OK, Islamic practices are questionable. If it is set up by Muslims, there may be a great temptation to treat a woman as half a man and to discriminate against her, to treat her like Koran and Sharia say a woman must be treated.

Thus, if the bank says that a woman will be entitled to only half the loan of a man (one man is equal to two women), or it mandates that a woman must get her husband’s written permission before bank would give her a loan (or her father’s, her brother’s or even her son’s signature), then the law much bear down upon the bank and bear down hard.

However, as long as the bank behaves within the constitution and does not discriminate, I don’t see a problem with Islamic finance. More options, more choices are always good.
 

darkbeaver

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Somebody posted this in another thread. I don’t think Islamic finance is the answer. However, I have no problem with Islamic finance. If somebody wants to set up an Islamic bank in USA or Canada, nobody is stopping them.

However, one has to be careful here. Islamic bank is OK, Islamic practices are questionable. If it is set up by Muslims, there may be a great temptation to treat a woman as half a man and to discriminate against her, to treat her like Koran and Sharia say a woman must be treated.

Thus, if the bank says that a woman will be entitled to only half the loan of a man (one man is equal to two women), or it mandates that a woman must get her husband’s written permission before bank would give her a loan (or her father’s, her brother’s or even her son’s signature), then the law much bear down upon the bank and bear down hard.

However, as long as the bank behaves within the constitution and does not discriminate, I don’t see a problem with Islamic finance. More options, more choices are always good.

So it isn't the oil and it isn't honest banking. You seem to be terrified by Islam. You seem to have some deep personal problem relating to Islamic culture,specifically. Perhaps an unfortunate mishap while watching Sinbad The Sailor then.
 
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YukonJack

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According to Islam, it is a great sin to charge interest on a loan.

Well, I am torn between becoming a Muslim and pay no interest or ...

Sorry, no choice. I prefer my decency, honesty and integrity.
 

SirJosephPorter

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According to Islam, it is a great sin to charge interest on a loan.

Well, I am torn between becoming a Muslim and pay no interest or ...

Sorry, no choice. I prefer my decency, honesty and integrity.

Just because an Islamic bank doesn’t charge interest doesn’t mean that you don’t pay. You pay in different form. But the payment will be the same whether it is an Islamic or a non Islamic bank. Only they will call it by a different name (profit perhaps, not interest) and it may be in a different format.
 

YukonJack

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"Just because an Islamic bank doesn’t charge interest doesn’t mean that you don’t pay. You pay in different form. But the payment will be the same whether it is an Islamic or a non Islamic bank. Only they will call it by a different name (profit perhaps, not interest) and it may be in a different format."

So, I repeat, though in different words, so that the mentally challenged can understand:

Keep your bloody interest-free loans. Give all the proceeds to Mohammed. (PBOH) He needs all the help he can get.
 

SirJosephPorter

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"Just because an Islamic bank doesn’t charge interest doesn’t mean that you don’t pay. You pay in different form. But the payment will be the same whether it is an Islamic or a non Islamic bank. Only they will call it by a different name (profit perhaps, not interest) and it may be in a different format."

So, I repeat, though in different words, so that the mentally challenged can understand:

Keep your bloody interest-free loans. Give all the proceeds to Mohammed. (PBOH) He needs all the help he can get.

Nobody is forcing you to, Yukon. But as I said, if somebody wants to start an Islamic bank, I don’t see anything wrong with it, provided it operates within the constitution. It just gives people one more option in banking, options are always good.
 

Scott Free

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Islamic finance dances around Islamic law. They still get their pound of flesh they just do it differently. In a way they are even worse than the regular banking system because they hold themselves as morally superior when in fact they do everything they can to avoid the principles of said morality.
 

tracy

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There is nothing immoral about interest charged on a loan imo. If you don't want to pay interest, stop borrowing money.
 

SirJosephPorter

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There is nothing immoral about interest charged on a loan imo. If you don't want to pay interest, stop borrowing money.

Quite right, tracy. So if Islamic bank wants to do it in a different way, it is nobody’s business (so long as they don’t discriminate).
 

Risus

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So it isn't the oil and it isn't honest banking. You seem to be terrified by Islam. You seem to have some deep personal problem relating to Islamic culture,specifically. Perhaps an unfortunate mishap while watching Sinbad The Sailor then.

Perhaps his problem with Islam is that they support terrorism.....
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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when you think about it, charging us interest on money that doesnt exist is illegal.....

Experts in Islamic finance believe their way of doing business has shielded them from the global credit crisis.
But how does it differ from conventional Western finance?
In practical terms, the most significant difference is that charging interest is not allowed in Islamic finance.


Webmaster's Commentary:
Are western (Jewish) banks losing the "Clash of Civilizations?"

BBC NEWS | Business | Is Islamic finance the answer?

Islamic finance was perfect for its time. People could lend money, but it was referred to as a friendly loan (i.e. a loan without interest to be paid back on a predetermined date). But for our modern age of globalization and technology, where sometimes billions if not trillions of dollars must be acquired under the umbrella of one organization for a mega-project, you're not likely to get that kind of money from a 'friendly loan' unless you've got a hell of a lot of rich and kind friends.

One advantage with Islamic finance, of course, is that it protects the vulnerable from usury. Personally I believe that in the modern age, we must allow for a reasonable amount of interest short of it becoming ususry. And we have that already with bankrupcy protection. When a person can legitimately no longer pay, he can renegotiate the loan and interest on it and will be protected from destitution. I think that's good enough.
 

Machjo

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Somebody posted this in another thread. I don’t think Islamic finance is the answer. However, I have no problem with Islamic finance. If somebody wants to set up an Islamic bank in USA or Canada, nobody is stopping them.

However, one has to be careful here. Islamic bank is OK, Islamic practices are questionable. If it is set up by Muslims, there may be a great temptation to treat a woman as half a man and to discriminate against her, to treat her like Koran and Sharia say a woman must be treated.

Thus, if the bank says that a woman will be entitled to only half the loan of a man (one man is equal to two women), or it mandates that a woman must get her husband’s written permission before bank would give her a loan (or her father’s, her brother’s or even her son’s signature), then the law much bear down upon the bank and bear down hard.

However, as long as the bank behaves within the constitution and does not discriminate, I don’t see a problem with Islamic finance. More options, more choices are always good.

Cut the effin bigotry already. The Qur'an does not grant women equality with men, true. But it certainly does not equate women with animals as you seem to be implying. Though it does validate a male witness to two female witnesses in certain specific judicial contexts, it says nothing about men being worth two women across the board. Nor does it say anything about men having to sign for women for loans.

I don't profess Islam myself, but have read the Qur'an and understand it within its historical context. It by no means treats women the way you're portraying it. If you want to say that Islam does not guarantee full equality to women, fine. But at least be honest and don't start adding things to it that aren't there. If what you say is true (and I've read the Qur'an a number of times), then please quote it.

As far as the way some or perhaps many Arab men treat their women is concerned, that is a purely cultural issue having nada to do with their religion. Sure some Mullahs make silly fatwas, but that's but their interpretation, often politically motivated, and have nothing to do with Islam per se.

So please cut your ignorant bigotry for once.

I've known many Muslims in my life. I'd met Ahmad Rassam once before, not realising what he was to do later of course, and will say that there are alot of crazy so-called Muslims out there, but same for any religion and atheists too. And I've met some wonderful Muslims who love their sons, daughters, wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, and friends, and don't treat them the way you ignorantly and hatefully seem to be trying to protray here.
 

Machjo

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According to Islam, it is a great sin to charge interest on a loan.

Well, I am torn between becoming a Muslim and pay no interest or ...

Sorry, no choice. I prefer my decency, honesty and integrity.

According to Islam, one must keep to his promises too. So essentially, even if you became a Muslim, you'd still have to pay off the loan with interest. You simply would not be allowed to borrow at interest anymore, nor lend at interest.
 

Machjo

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Just because an Islamic bank doesn’t charge interest doesn’t mean that you don’t pay. You pay in different form. But the payment will be the same whether it is an Islamic or a non Islamic bank. Only they will call it by a different name (profit perhaps, not interest) and it may be in a different format.

According to the strict rules of Islam, it's straightforward. No interest, only friendly loans. Thoguh Islamic countries have been having problems with this in the last century owing to globalization. If you refuse to borrow money at interest, few will be willing to lend to you, thus putting a damper on major national infrastructure projects or major manufacturing conglomerates.

Of course there are alternative solutions, such as co-ops or other ways of pooling money together, but how successfully they've promoted this I don't know. But even with that, there are times when megaprojects will have no choice but to borrow large sums of money beyond what was required prior to the industrial revolution.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Islamic finance was perfect for its time. People could lend money, but it was referred to as a friendly loan (i.e. a loan without interest to be paid back on a predetermined date).

That is not how it works out, machjo. You still end up paying interest (in the sense that you will pay back more than you borrowed), it is just that it will be in a different form. Islamic bank would not give interest free loans, if it did, it will go bankrupt. It has to generate its revenues somehow. You will pay interest (or something similar to interest), but in a different form.
 

Machjo

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Perhaps his problem with Islam is that they support terrorism.....

There are a few problems with your statement:

1. Islam is represented by the pronoun they. There is only one Islam. I take it you mean it?

And no, Islam does not support terrorism. Some Arabs do, perhaps, but that's quite apart from Islam. I cant believe the anti-Muslims hatred and bigotry in this forum.