Pensions and Pension Reform


VanIsle
#1
First public hearing on pension reform opens to contrasting views

at 12:19 on March 13, 2009, EDT.

THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA - The federal government is being urged to make immediate and dramatic reforms to pension plan rules in Canada, but there's little consensus on what those changes should look like.

The first of a series of cross-Canada public consultations produced several conflicting views on how the Conservative government can fulfil a budgetary promise to take the pressure off beleaguered pension plans.

The most radical proposal came from a group representing federal public service retirees, who want all existing registered pension plans moved into an exponentially improved Canada Pension Plan that would boost retirement benefits for all Canadians.

Ted Menzies, the government's junior finance minister, presided over the two-hour meeting and plans to present a report to Parliament in June for legislative reforms that are promised by the end of this year.

A representative of Bell Canada spoke for a group of seven large federally regulated plans when he urged Ottawa to make permanent changes that will ease solvency valuations that have resulted in wild swings in companies' pension plan funding requirements.

But Ken Georgetti of the Canadian Labour Congress countered with a blistering attack on what he called corporate irresponsibility during the 15-year economic boom that preceded the current pension crisis.
 
VanIsle
#2
Not all pension plans work the same. Because my spouse worked for the federal government, this month his Canada Pension will be clawed back because he will turn 65. It has been an on going fight to try to put a stop to this. People with pensions outside of being government employees can collect their CPP, OAP and their work pension for which they contributed to the entire time they worked. We see no reason for this claw back. Is it happening to you too?
In regard to the article above, I see nothing that says political pensions to the PM's and the rest of government should be clawed back and well they should be. Every politician is paid way way too much pension money.
 
Spade
Avatar
#3
CPP is never clawed back!

The clawback of the OAP (lovely name) is a misnomer. It is simply a prepayment of income tax. The "claw-back" for tax purposes is treated as tax paid and the recipient does not pay tax on the difference.
Example:
Suppose there were no "clawback" and your marginal tax rate were 26%, then you would pay $260 in income tax and you would have $740 left over.
The "clawback" simply withholds the $260 and you receive $740 of tax-free moola.
It is foolish and impossible to try to circumvent this. It is just tax like your tax withheld at source or your quarterly payments. O, please phone the CRA if you don't believe me!
There is probably no Great Claw! So, stop worrying and enjoy yourself.

Old geezers of the world.
This is not an issue to tilt at.

PS to IP,
A lot of people approaching 65 are under this misconception. Reassure your hubby!
 
VanIsle
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

CPP is never clawed back!

The clawback of the OAP (lovely name) is a misnomer. It is simply a prepayment of income tax. The "claw-back" for tax purposes is treated as tax paid and the recipient does not pay tax on the difference.
Example:
Suppose there were no "clawback" and your marginal tax rate were 26%, then you would pay $260 in income tax and you would have $740 left over.
The "clawback" simply withholds the $260 and you receive $740 of tax-free moola.
It is foolish and impossible to try to circumvent this. It is just tax like your tax withheld at source or your quarterly payments. O, please phone the CRA if you don't believe me!
There is probably no Great Claw! So, stop worrying and enjoy yourself.

Old geezers of the world.
This is not an issue to tilt at.

PS to IP,
A lot of people approaching 65 are under this misconception. Reassure your hubby!

I wish that was true Spade but for some reason it is not with the RCMP. He does attend the coffee clutch every now and again and most of the fellows there are well over the age of 65 so this is a topic they discuss frequently. Our expectation is that the OAP will make a difference of about $40 -50 a month in the income he already receives. He turns 65 in a couple of weeks so - we'll find out. I would love for you to be right. If you are, we shall dance a little jig and be exceedingly glad. I'm not holding out any hope for that.
 
Spade
#5
They are wrong! For X sakes believe me! Phone Service Canada!
 
VanIsle
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

They are wrong! For X sakes believe me! Phone Service Canada!

Don't get all upset now. I will know in two weeks without calling anyone and then I shall announce to all that you are right or you were in error.
 
Spade
#7
How will you know?
 
petros
Avatar
#8
First you are taxed on your income, then you try to save and the tax free income put into a 'plan" which is then taxed again as income when it is already your savings.

That is a double grab.
 
VanIsle
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

How will you know?

Because the funds are deposited automatically into our account and I am the "family banker". I will instantly see the change the moment it happens.
 
Spade
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

First you are taxed on your income, then you try to save and the tax free income put into a 'plan" is then taxed again as income when it is already your savings.

That is a double grab.

I agree, but that's income on after-tax savings.
 
VanIsle
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

First you are taxed on your income, then you try to save and the tax free income put into a 'plan" is then taxed again as income when it is already your savings.

That is a double grab.

And that is what the members have been fighting for some years now.
 
VanIsle
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

I agree, but that's income on after-tax savings.

Spade just give me a couple of weeks and we'll all know.
 
petros
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by IslandpacificView Post

And that is what the members have been fighting for some years now.

I hope they still have their side arms.
 
Spade
Avatar
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by IslandpacificView Post

Because the funds are deposited automatically into our account and I am the "family banker". I will instantly see the change the moment it happens.

No you won't. You will only discover that I am correct when your husband does his taxes. When he receives the T4A on his OAP, he will discover the "clawnback" is tax withheld. If too much tax were withheld based on his taxable income, he will get that overpayment back as a refund, just the same as any other part of the income tax he paid.
 
VanIsle
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

No you won't. You will only discover that I am correct when your husband does his taxes. When he receives the T4A on his OAP, he will discover the "clawnback" is tax withheld. If too much tax were withheld based on his taxable income, he will get that overpayment back as a refund, just the same as any other part of the income tax he paid.

Okay - I have just spoken to my husband. I was wrong in which pension is being clawed back. It is his RCMP pension that is clawed back by almost the full amount of the OAP. It is his understanding that this is what happens (via the coffee meetings I mentioned with the other 65+ retired members) and that when he receives his monthly payment we will only see a few $ and probably even less than I first stated. He says: maybe Spade can explain this to us because he doesn't understand it.
 
petros
Avatar
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by IslandpacificView Post

Okay - I have just spoken to my husband. I was wrong in which pension is being clawed back. It is his RCMP pension that is clawed back by almost the full amount of the OAP. It is his understanding that this is what happens (via the coffee meetings I mentioned with the other 65+ retired members) and that when he receives his monthly payment we will only see a few $ and probably even less than I first stated. He says: maybe Spade can explain this to us because he doesn't understand it.

If they start thinking of it as fraud they'll figure it out in a hurry.
 
VanIsle
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If they start thinking of it as fraud they'll figure it out in a hurry.

Maybe that's why they are making every attempt at having it changed.
 
Spade
Avatar
#18
I am not familiar with the RCMPolice pension agreement their association signed on their behalf. Don't want to go there!
 
petros
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by IslandpacificView Post

Maybe that's why they are making every attempt at having it changed.

Godspeed to them on their uphill battle.
 
Tyr
Avatar
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

CPP is never clawed back!

The clawback of the OAP (lovely name) is a misnomer. It is simply a prepayment of income tax. The "claw-back" for tax purposes is treated as tax paid and the recipient does not pay tax on the difference.
Example:
Suppose there were no "clawback" and your marginal tax rate were 26%, then you would pay $260 in income tax and you would have $740 left over.
The "clawback" simply withholds the $260 and you receive $740 of tax-free moola.
It is foolish and impossible to try to circumvent this. It is just tax like your tax withheld at source or your quarterly payments. O, please phone the CRA if you don't believe me!
There is probably no Great Claw! So, stop worrying and enjoy yourself.

Old geezers of the world.
This is not an issue to tilt at.

PS to IP,
A lot of people approaching 65 are under this misconception. Reassure your hubby!

It's a fact Spade. CPP is not "clawed back"....

People who don't understand or overestimate their pension are usually the ones who feel that's the case
 

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