#1Feb 2nd, 2009
The Atheist movement coming to Canada
#2
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
I for one welcome our new atheist overlords. 
But seriously, I heard on the radio some religious groups are trying to say these billboards are hate! That has got to be some kind of new logic fallacy, perhaps ad Semitic? You know, where any criticism is hate.
Oh the delicious irony though that religion feels persecuted. I would try and be sympathetic but I can't stop laughing.
But seriously, I heard on the radio some religious groups are trying to say these billboards are hate! That has got to be some kind of new logic fallacy, perhaps ad Semitic?
You know, where any criticism is hate.Oh the delicious irony though that religion feels persecuted. I would try and be sympathetic but I can't stop laughing.
#3
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
Atheists organizing sound somewhat oxymoronish, don't you think? Kinda like an anarchist party. But I suppose some feel that the religious are persecuting them so they need strength in numbers. I for one don't believe in numbers because it usually leads to hierarchies which is what the anti-religious are all about.
#4
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
What does this mean? You don't believe in real numbers i.e. 1,2,3,4, etc, or do you mean something else?I for one don't believe in numbers because it usually leads to hierarchies which is what the anti-religious are all about.
#5
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Um... I think most atheists support the rule of law they just don't like laws dictated by edict from people who hear voices in their head.Atheists organizing sound somewhat oxymoronish, don't you think? Kinda like an anarchist party.
#6
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
Religious groups have challenged them by asking them to prove there is no God, I say, prove there is one.
Quite right, miniboss, logically it is impossible to prove a negative. So the proposition that God does not exist (or that Santa Claus doesn’t exist or Easter Bunny doesn’t exist) cannot be proven.
Those who claim that God exists; the burden of proof is upon them to prove it.
Quite right, miniboss, logically it is impossible to prove a negative. So the proposition that God does not exist (or that Santa Claus doesn’t exist or Easter Bunny doesn’t exist) cannot be proven.
Those who claim that God exists; the burden of proof is upon them to prove it.
#7
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
That is non-sensical. They are Atheists, not Anarchists. They don't automatically believe in individual liberty.Atheists organizing sound somewhat oxymoronish, don't you think? Kinda like an anarchist party.
Communists are Atheists, they used to be the majority of the world.
#8
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
The Atheist movement is big in Britain,
Atheism has always been big in Britain. When I lived in Britain, Labour Party had a leader, Michael Foot, who was an Agnostic or an Atheist. However, he was a terrible politician; Mrs. Thatcher literally ate him for lunch. It was just as well that his Atheism was not widely known, he would have given Atheism a bad name.
But the point is, Atheism has always been big in Britain.
Atheism has always been big in Britain. When I lived in Britain, Labour Party had a leader, Michael Foot, who was an Agnostic or an Atheist. However, he was a terrible politician; Mrs. Thatcher literally ate him for lunch. It was just as well that his Atheism was not widely known, he would have given Atheism a bad name.
But the point is, Atheism has always been big in Britain.
#9
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
Communists are Atheists; they used to be the majority of the world.
Zzarchov, Communists may be Atheists, but Atheists are not Communists, don’t confuse the two. You can be sure that there were plenty of Atheists in the Gulag.
Zzarchov, Communists may be Atheists, but Atheists are not Communists, don’t confuse the two. You can be sure that there were plenty of Atheists in the Gulag.
#10
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free
"There is no strength in numbers" - groups, mobs, congregations, political parties, bowling teams... etc.What does this mean? You don't believe in real numbers i.e. 1,2,3,4, etc, or do you mean something else?
#11
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
Agnostics and Atheists are different. Agnostics believe in a higher power, they just don't pick one specifically. Atheists do not believe in a higher power. They are not Satinists either,(the flipside of Christianity). They believe in a world without religious conetations, and influence, and dictatorship.
#12
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov
Perhaps some of the more brutal among the leadership of the Communist Party of Russia were Atheists but most Russians were religious. many were forced to be part of the party against their will. Besides, Russia or the USSR was communist in name only, like we are a democracy in name only. USSR was a totalitarian regime and Canada is a corporate dictatorship (along with USA and just about every other "democracy" out there.That is non-sensical. They are Atheists, not Anarchists. They don't automatically believe in individual liberty.
Communists are Atheists, they used to be the majority of the world.
#13
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Uh huh, you are missing the point. Where are you getting this notion that Atheists are somehow against order and organization?Perhaps some of the more brutal among the leadership of the Communist Party of Russia were Atheists but most Russians were religious. many were forced to be part of the party against their will. Besides, Russia or the USSR was communist in name only, like we are a democracy in name only. USSR was a totalitarian regime and Canada is a corporate dictatorship (along with USA and just about every other "democracy" out there.
#14
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
Only 20% of Canadians attend weekly religious services (Ipsos-Reid, 2007). Critics of this and similar surveys argue that people lie to pollsters about attendance, and so this figure may well be significantly lower. Similarly, people lie about their belief in a diety or dieties. Agnosticism may very well be the majority opinion in this country.
#15
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009
Ain't no evidence of this imaginary friend that watches everything we do. I mean, c'mon, wake up people. This god thingy is deader than Elvis.
#16
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 2nd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Atheism is becoming the new religionAtheists organizing sound somewhat oxymoronish, don't you think? Kinda like an anarchist party.
#18
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by miniboss
I totally agree with your analogy, no need to say more.The Atheist movement is big in Britain, with their billboards on the sides of double decker buses, with the slogan " There probably is no God, so quit worrying and enjoy your life", or something to that effect. It may be making it's way to Canada. Religious groups have challenged them by asking them to prove there is no God, I say, prove there is one. They don't have to prove anything, because they qualified their slogan with the word "Probably". What most people forget is, religion was instituted by Man. I think it's great, if Christians and other religious groups are allowed to spout their propaganda, so are they. Religion has been brainwashing people, since inception, and I think it's about time someone stood up to it. Besides religion is atiquated and unecessary, it's original purpose, was to provide law, order and justice. We have police and the court system for that now. Religion and Faith are differnent, yet one and the same, you can't have religion without faith, but you can have faith, without religion. I personally think the soul purpose of religion, is the aquisition of money and property. There is a reason why the Catholic Chruch is one of the wealthiest organizations on the planet, and they don't pay any taxes. there is a movie, called "The man who sued God". it's a love story at it's heart, but it's funny, some swearing, but demonstrates an interesting view of religion.
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:
#19
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
It can never be a religion, it is 'common sense', which is a everyday activity,Atheism is becoming the new religion
at least in my life.
#20
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
Now that is absurd. How can you have a religion where the only common belief is "there is no god"?Atheism is becoming the new religion
I am sure that atheists, like anybody else, join organizations but an atheist organization or religion is just too nuts. What would they talk about?
"There is no god."
I agree."
"Yup!"
(Long Pause!)
"Service is over."
#21
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
They could form a support group dealing with all the hatred they get subjected to from religious people?. . . an atheist organization or religion is just too nuts. What would they talk about?
#22
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free
I suppose that might be relevant if you live in the US but in Canada? You have to be thin skinned to be persecuted by the religious, and not be too sure why you don't believe. Best defense is to know your reasons and back them up.They could form a support group dealing with all the hatred they get subjected to from religious people?
#23
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter
Last time I checked, I was in fact able to prove that there were no pennies in my pocket. Last time I tried, I was able to prove that in fact 2+2 does not equal 5. In general, I find myself able to prove all sorts of negative statements. Religious groups have challenged them by asking them to prove there is no God, I say, prove there is one.
Quite right, miniboss, logically it is impossible to prove a negative. So the proposition that God does not exist (or that Santa Claus doesn’t exist or Easter Bunny doesn’t exist) cannot be proven.
Those who claim that God exists; the burden of proof is upon them to prove it.
Heck, the very statement: "It is impossible to prove a negative," is a negative statement, thus it denies that it can be proven itself. Were it true it would prove itself false, and if it is false, it is simply false without paradox. Therefore, its false.
#24
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by miniboss
Agnostics and Atheists are different. Agnostics believe in a higher power, they just don't pick one specifically. Atheists do not believe in a higher power. They are not Satinists either,(the flipside of Christianity). They believe in a world without religious conetations, and influence, and dictatorship.
A world without religious connotations, influence, and dictatorship would be pretty nice, given that anyone who wished to worship his/her specific higher power, still could.
#25
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
I was trying to make a joke but obviously I failed I suppose that might be relevant if you live in the US but in Canada? You have to be thin skinned to be persecuted by the religious, and not be too sure why you don't believe. Best defense is to know your reasons and back them up.
#26
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir
Actually the argument for proof of god was made, the evidence of his existence was determined, and then found to not exist.Last time I checked, I was in fact able to prove that there were no pennies in my pocket. Last time I tried, I was able to prove that in fact 2+2 does not equal 5. In general, I find myself able to prove all sorts of negative statements.
Heck, the very statement: "It is impossible to prove a negative," is a negative statement, thus it denies that it can be proven itself. Were it true it would prove itself false, and if it is false, it is simply false without paradox. Therefore, its false.
The idea that god can't be disproved is basically false unless he is like a little garden gnome that could be hidden under a rock on any planet in the universe. The argument then goes: in order to disprove god you must be able to see all things in all places at once, since that would be impossible, it is also impossible to prove god does not exist. However, this is true only if god were a material object of little significance like a little garden gnome statue or pennies in your pocket.
The reality is that god should be omnipresent and blatantly apparent. There should be a material that does not change, is not affected by time, distance or anything else and permeates the entire universe. Such a material should be detectable and all things should be made of it to some degree or another. If this material exists so does god, if it doesn't then neither does god.
Plato called this material the aether and it was proved to not exist by Michelson and Morle. The aether has since been replaced by relativity.
So people say god can't be disproved for two reasons: they don't know he has already been disproved, or they are being nice to the religionists.
But you are right.
There is no god and that is indeed a fact.
I do not believe there is no god but instead I know there is no god; just like I know there is no Santa, unicorns, or trolls under bridges, and there are no pennies in my pocket (currently).
Last edited by Scott Free; Feb 3rd, 2009 at 04:07 AM..
#27
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009
Last time I checked, I was in fact able to prove that there were no pennies in my pocket.
With respect, Niflmir, that is nonsense. How do you prove there are no pennies in your pocket? Try to prove it to me.
If you put your hand in your pocket and come up empty handed, I will claim that you do have pennies in your pocket, but chose not to bring out any. If you invert your pockets, or ask me to examine them for myself, I will claim that you are a magician, that you indeed did have pennies in your pocket, but salted away somewhere by sleigh of hand. I not being a magician, you were able to fool me easily (then are you going to try to prove that you are not a magician?).
So, how do you prove that there are no pennies in your pockets? It cannot be done.
As to proving that 2+2 do not make 5, you can prove nothing of the sort. You can prove that 2+2 make 4, and by elimination you prove that it is not 5. You are not proving a negative here, you are proving a positive (that 2+2 make 4, and hence do not make 5).
Logically a negative cannot be proven. E.g. try to prove that you haven’t been to Ulan Bator, Mongolia in the past 10 years (I assume you haven’t). You cannot, same as you cannot prove that there are no pennies in your pocket.
With respect, Niflmir, that is nonsense. How do you prove there are no pennies in your pocket? Try to prove it to me.
If you put your hand in your pocket and come up empty handed, I will claim that you do have pennies in your pocket, but chose not to bring out any. If you invert your pockets, or ask me to examine them for myself, I will claim that you are a magician, that you indeed did have pennies in your pocket, but salted away somewhere by sleigh of hand. I not being a magician, you were able to fool me easily (then are you going to try to prove that you are not a magician?).
So, how do you prove that there are no pennies in your pockets? It cannot be done.
As to proving that 2+2 do not make 5, you can prove nothing of the sort. You can prove that 2+2 make 4, and by elimination you prove that it is not 5. You are not proving a negative here, you are proving a positive (that 2+2 make 4, and hence do not make 5).
Logically a negative cannot be proven. E.g. try to prove that you haven’t been to Ulan Bator, Mongolia in the past 10 years (I assume you haven’t). You cannot, same as you cannot prove that there are no pennies in your pocket.
Last edited by SirJosephPorter; Feb 3rd, 2009 at 06:40 AM..
#28
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009
The reality is that god should be omnipresent and blatantly apparent. There should be a material that does not change, is not affected by time, distance or anything else and permeates the entire universe. Such a material should be detectable and all things should be made of it to some degree or another. If this material exists so does god, if it doesn't then neither does god.
Scott Free, that is your interpretation. I would claim that the reality of God is apparent only to those who are willing to receive it, those who are objective about it, those who are not blinded by science (I am playing Devil’s Advocate here, I am an Atheist myself).
And why should there be a material that does not change? I postulate God as a spiritual being who is present everywhere, but cannot be detected by the scientific means we have available at present.
I would argue that even if God is present in material form, the techniques of us mere mortals are too unsophisticated to detect that material.
Now go ahead and prove that God doesn’t’ exist.
Scott Free, that is your interpretation. I would claim that the reality of God is apparent only to those who are willing to receive it, those who are objective about it, those who are not blinded by science (I am playing Devil’s Advocate here, I am an Atheist myself).
And why should there be a material that does not change? I postulate God as a spiritual being who is present everywhere, but cannot be detected by the scientific means we have available at present.
I would argue that even if God is present in material form, the techniques of us mere mortals are too unsophisticated to detect that material.
Now go ahead and prove that God doesn’t’ exist.
#29
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter
Communists are Atheists; they used to be the majority of the world.
Zzarchov, Communists may be Atheists, but Atheists are not Communists, don’t confuse the two. You can be sure that there were plenty of Atheists in the Gulag.
I wasn't aware I had confused the two.
If All X are Y, that does not follow that all Y are X nor is it implied. Logic is still taught in schools I assure you.
#30
Re: The Atheist movement coming to Canada
Feb 3rd, 2009
Side note:
Its not that you can't "prove a negative" or must "prove a positive"
Its that you cannot disprove, you can only prove something contradictory.
To prove there is no god is possible, one must first have a definition of god, then set about proving something contradictory.
Given our abilities, and the vagueness of the answer you are liable to receive, you will most likely instead get to a situation where you can neither prove god exists nor does not exist. Much like the Flying Spaghetti Monster of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
Its not that you can't "prove a negative" or must "prove a positive"
Its that you cannot disprove, you can only prove something contradictory.
To prove there is no god is possible, one must first have a definition of god, then set about proving something contradictory.
Given our abilities, and the vagueness of the answer you are liable to receive, you will most likely instead get to a situation where you can neither prove god exists nor does not exist. Much like the Flying Spaghetti Monster of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
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