Brave Israeli Soldiers Shoot Woman In The Head Despite Waving White Flag


Stretch
#1
'At around 8 am, the witnesses said, a 50-year-old Palestinian woman left the home of a relative while waving a white flag to allow the rest of her family to leave the home safely.
According to the eyewitnesses, Ravhiya al-Najar was shot at just as she stepped out of the house and immediately fell to the ground. She continued to wave the white flag to indicate that there were no armed men in the area, but then one of the bullets struck her head and killed her, they said.
An ambulance driver who arrived at the scene said the woman lay dead at the side of the road, but added that he was forced to backtrack after IDF forces opened fire in his direction.'
B'Tselem: Gaza woman killed by IDF despite waving white flag - Israel News, Ynetnews
 
Cannuck
#2
You mean "allegedly" I presume.

"The IDF said in response to the B'Tselem report "we have no knowledge of these incidents. The army is targeting Hamas gunmen who are operating out of populated areas and using civilians as human shields. The civilian population in Gaza is not being targeted.""
 
Zzarchov
#3
I can actually believe this occurred. Someone randomly stepping out from cover in a warzone waving a hankerchief isn't likely to be discernable in a warzone at 500m-1km. Someone breaks from cover a soldier (any soldier in any military in the world) is trained to open fire as a reaction.

Gaza citizens should be given basic training for how to remain as safe as possible in a warzone. Of course then whatever you tell them will be exploited by some yahoo militant group looking for a kill and ruin it for everyone.

The rules of war, are there to protect the underdog, not the superpower. Why Hamas insists on fighting against the rules of war, hiding in cities I do not know.
 
Unforgiven
#4
How many Hamas gunmen were in her 'family" following her out the door?
 
Zzarchov
#5
Even if they weren't, you don't get in the middle of a gunfight and run out suddenly from cover if you don't wanna get shot from both sides within a fraction of a second.
 
Stretch
#6
well, I s'pose if israel is going to shoot at clearly marked ambulances, un compounds, schools, and safe houses, then a white flag is gunna mean bugger all, isn't it!
 
Zzarchov
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by StretchView Post

well, I s'pose if israel is going to shoot at clearly marked ambulances, un compounds, schools, and safe houses, then a white flag is gunna mean bugger all, isn't it!

Well lets be fair here, all of the above have been used by militants before, thats why using ambulances and schools as military vehicles is against the rules, as it means they now get shot.

The UN still doesn't see a problem with its staff also being militants and being able to remain neutral.

When UN employees are picking up rifles, and firing mortars its kinda hard to see them as neutral, even if they are "off the clock" while they shoot (And on the clock when shot)
 
darkbeaver
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by ZzarchovView Post

Well lets be fair here, all of the above have been used by militants before, thats why using ambulances and schools as military vehicles is against the rules, as it means they now get shot.

The UN still doesn't see a problem with its staff also being militants and being able to remain neutral.

When UN employees are picking up rifles, and firing mortars its kinda hard to see them as neutral, even if they are "off the clock" while they shoot (And on the clock when shot)

You got it real bad Zzarchov. Next we'll here about the 500 dead child militants who make a habit of hiding in sandboxes and prams to trap the kind humanitarian IDF heros. You're bottomless Zzarchov, get some help.
 
Stretch
#9
there are no rules left, are there, back in the "good ol' days of war" wars were fought with rules....but since the us of g introduced and condoned torture, then the rule book was basically torn up and tossed out the window. Now its every man for himself............
 
darkbeaver
#10
There are no men in the IDF only cowards thievs and murderers, every last one of them should be worked till they drop rebuilding Palestine and eraseing all evidence of Israel.
 
Praxius
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by ZzarchovView Post

Well lets be fair here, all of the above have been used by militants before, thats why using ambulances and schools as military vehicles is against the rules, as it means they now get shot.

Who said they have been used before by militants? Israel? Yeah I thought so.

So even in the remote chance that they actually used an ambulance for cover from the enemy, that means all ambulances here on in are fair game?

And you think the UN would actually allow militants to use their own compounds to launch attacks? So now any attack on the UN is justified?

You know what I really love about this whole conflict?

No matter what actually happens by the hands of Israel, no matter how evil or inhumane...... there's always someone out there to justify those actions.... Oh, they should be allowed to defend themselves, they have to suffer from randomly fired and crappy home made rockets that usually hit nothing but dirt...... so let's head on into Gaza and Genocide the whole lot of them.

That'll smartn' them up and show them who's boss..... afterall, it's their right to kill off the undesirables anyway they wish.

Quote:

The UN still doesn't see a problem with its staff also being militants and being able to remain neutral.

You have any proof to back up that claim? No wait, I forgot, you don't supply sources and just expect us to find it ourselves.

Tell you what, I'll actually try and search for anything that could collaborate what you claim:

Nope.... not a damn thing out there except reports of people claiming militants used the UN school for cover that Israel bombed...... oh and this:

Israeli forces shell UN headquarters in Gaza
Israeli forces shell UN headquarters in Gaza - wtop.com

"Israel shelled the United Nations headquarters in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, engulfing the compound and the main warehouse in fire and destroying thousands of pounds of food and humanitarian supplies intended for Palestinian refugees.

The U.N. chief, in Israel for the day, demanded a "full explanation."

A senior Israeli military officer said Israeli troops shelled after coming under fire from Palestinian militants inside the compound _ an account dismissed by a U.N. official there at the time as "nonsense."

^ Great people you're siding with.

Quote:

When UN employees are picking up rifles, and firing mortars its kinda hard to see them as neutral, even if they are "off the clock" while they shoot (And on the clock when shot)

Once again, provide sources to back up your claims, because I spent 5 damn minutes looking for anything that could relate to what you said and found nothing.

So either start backing up your claims or stop lying.
 
Zzarchov
#12
Sure I do, I've posted it before, CBC 2004:

This claim:

The very idea that individuals with clear links to the Hamas terrorist network maybe on the Unwra payroll is totally unacceptable and should be properly investigated


Dan Gillerman
Israeli UN ambassador

Followed by this refute to the CBC

Mr Hansen acknowledged that some of Unrwa's 24,000 Palestinian employees were probably members of militant groups such as Hamas.
"I'm sure that there are Hamas members on the Unrwa payroll," Mr Hansen said. "I don't see that as a crime."


That would be Peter Hansen, head of the UN efforts in Gaza at the time.
 
Praxius
#13
The very idea that individuals with clear links to the Hamas terrorist network maybe on the Unwra payroll is totally unacceptable and should be properly investigated

^ Maybe.

Going with that Guilty before proven Innocent mentality they use down there in Gitmo?
 
JLM
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Who said they have been used before by militants? Israel? Yeah I thought so.

So even in the remote chance that they actually used an ambulance for cover from the enemy, that means all ambulances here on in are fair game?

And you think the UN would actually allow militants to use their own compounds to launch attacks? So now any attack on the UN is justified?

You know what I really love about this whole conflict?

No matter what actually happens by the hands of Israel, no matter how evil or inhumane...... there's always someone out there to justify those actions.... Oh, they should be allowed to defend themselves, they have to suffer from randomly fired and crappy home made rockets that usually hit nothing but dirt...... so let's head on into Gaza and Genocide the whole lot of them.

That'll smartn' them up and show them who's boss..... afterall, it's their right to kill off the undesirables anyway they wish.



You have any proof to back up that claim? No wait, I forgot, you don't supply sources and just expect us to find it ourselves.

Tell you what, I'll actually try and search for anything that could collaborate what you claim:

Nope.... not a damn thing out there except reports of people claiming militants used the UN school for cover that Israel bombed...... oh and this:

Israeli forces shell UN headquarters in Gaza
Israeli forces shell UN headquarters in Gaza - wtop.com

"Israel shelled the United Nations headquarters in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, engulfing the compound and the main warehouse in fire and destroying thousands of pounds of food and humanitarian supplies intended for Palestinian refugees.

The U.N. chief, in Israel for the day, demanded a "full explanation."

A senior Israeli military officer said Israeli troops shelled after coming under fire from Palestinian militants inside the compound _ an account dismissed by a U.N. official there at the time as "nonsense."

^ Great people you're siding with.



Once again, provide sources to back up your claims, because I spent 5 damn minutes looking for anything that could relate to what you said and found nothing.

So either start backing up your claims or stop lying.

They are all nuts over there and have been for 60 years, not sure why this stuff is even "news" anymore. Anyone who was really sane would get the hell out.
 
Zzarchov
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

The very idea that individuals with clear links to the Hamas terrorist network maybe on the Unwra payroll is totally unacceptable and should be properly investigated

^ Maybe.

Going with that Guilty before proven Innocent mentality they use down there in Gitmo?


And then the response from the UN was that he was SURE they WERE on the payroll, and that he didn't see a problem with that.

If you admit to something, thats called a confession..if you admit it without any form of duress and believe your actions are ok, thats a valid confession. Thats evidence, its really all you need.
 
lone wolf
#16
Israel is the yardstick by which they gauge all. Does Mossad and Canadian passports ring any bells?
 
EagleSmack
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post


Going with that Guilty before proven Innocent mentality they use down there in Gitmo?

Or up there in Canada.
 
Zzarchov
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Israel is the yardstick by which they gauge all. Does Mossad and Canadian passports ring any bells?

Israel never claims to be a neutral abriter.
 
Praxius
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by ZzarchovView Post

And then the response from the UN was that he was SURE they WERE on the payroll, and that he didn't see a problem with that.

If you admit to something, thats called a confession..if you admit it without any form of duress and believe your actions are ok, thats a valid confession. Thats evidence, its really all you need.

Let's nit pick this a bit futher shall we? (not like any of it really matters)

"Mr Hansen acknowledged that some of Unrwa's 24,000 Palestinian employees were probably members of militant groups such as Hamas.

"I'm sure that there are Hamas members on the Unrwa payroll," Mr Hansen said. "I don't see that as a crime."

How can they claim that there are for sure Hamas members in the UN, when the line before that claims "Probably" and the line before that said "Maybe"

Once again, no proof since they did say:

..... should be properly investigated.

Investigate means to seek the truth or to obtain an answer of some kind. Why go through an investigation if they already know the answer? (Or think they know the answer?)

And if you know for sure, then it's got to be Bible Quality, because even they don't know for sure.

But rather then playing it safe, rather then sending in a recon attack heli to confirm the location of where the attack came from and to surgically remove the threat, they blanket the entire area with bombs and air strikes, proving they really don't give a sh*t about anybody else except themselves.

Certainly not a way to win over hearts and minds when you bomb civilians or the UN..... for what? Maybe two Hamas troops? Maybe Three??
 
Praxius
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Or up there in Canada.

Yeah, but most recognize it as US
 
lone wolf
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by ZzarchovView Post

Israel never claims to be a neutral abriter.

What are you on about?
 
Stretch
#22
since the "new pearl habour"(9/11) everyone is guilty till proven innocent.... even in the land down under.
 
EagleSmack
#23
Australia?
 
Praxius
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Australia?

Damit and I was planning on moving there too.
 
Stretch
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Australia?

yup and New Zealand also. those in authority don't trust us peasants any more, we could be upto something..........
 
talloola
#26
I wouldn't believe or disbelieve this story, but anyone can write them, and they
are written all the time, so, I ignore them, just part of the mess, but I imagine
there are many who believe them immediately, just as they believe the inquirer.
My long passed away mother-in-law used to read the inquirer, then tell me the
stories in 'amazement', and when I would try to explain to her that they were
unbelievable and unsubstantiated, she would just say, "no", it is written right
here, they can't write things that aren't true, it took me a long time to convince
her to 'think' about that concept.
 
Stretch
#27
New evidence of Gaza child deaths



Christian Fraser
BBC News, Gaza



Four-year-old Samar Abed Rabbu is a little girl with a captivating smile to melt the heart of the most hardened correspondent. Samer's two sisters did not survive the attack


When we first came across her in the hospital in the Egyptian town of El-Arish, just over the border from Gaza, she was playing with an inflated surgical glove beneath the covers.
The doctors had puffed air into the glove, trying to distract her from the further pain they had to inflict inserting a drip.
Samar had been shot in the back at close range. The bullet damaged her spine, and she is unlikely to walk again.
At her bedside, her uncle Hassan told us the family had been ordered out of their home by Israeli soldiers who were shelling the neighbourhood.
A tank had parked in front of the house, where around 30 people were taking shelter.
The women and children - mother, grandmother and three little girls - came out waving a white flag and then, he said, an Israeli soldier came out of the tank and opened fire on the terrified procession.
Samar's two sisters, aged seven and two, were shot dead. The grandmother was hit in the arm and in the side, but has survived.
Young victims
One of the most alarming features of the conflict in Gaza is the number of child casualties. More than 400 were killed. Many had shrapnel or blast injuries sustained as the Israeli army battled Hamas militants in Gaza's densely populated civilian areas.
But the head of neurosurgery at the El-Arish hospital, Dr Ahmed Yahia, told me that brain scans made it clear that a number of the child victims had been shot at close range.
Samar's uncle said the soldier who had shot his niece was just 15m (49ft) away. ''How could they not see they were shooting at children?'' he asked.
When we finally got into Gaza, we tried to investigate further. There are no houses left - no mosques, no factories, and no orchards



Finding a house, even with an address, in a neighbourhood that has been bombed into oblivion, where all landmarks have been obliterated and even the locals cannot find their bearings, is not easy.
But we eventually met a man who knew Samar's family and took us to the family house, or what was left of it.
The four-storey building has been concertinaed to the ground.
Father's agony
Khalid Abed Rabbu wears on his face all the pain of Israel's bloody three-week campaign in Gaza. In his hand he carried the teddy bear that had belonged to his daughter, Samar's six-year-old sister.
Its head had been blown off, apparently in the same burst of gunfire that had cut his daughter in half.
He described the events of that night almost identically to his brother. There were minor discrepancies, but he too believes his daughters were shot in cold blood. Khaled Abedrabou found toys in the wreckage of his house


"There were soldiers leaning against the tank eating crisps," he said. "But then one of them jumped down and walked towards the house with an M16 automatic rifle."
He showed me a photo of his eldest daughter under shrouds in the mortuary.
"What has my family done to Israel," he cried. "What has Samar done to deserve all this pain?"
We have put the family's allegations to the Israelis. So far they have told us that they can not comment on specific cases.
Their spokesman said they had made every effort to limit civilian casualties but were fighting a terrorist organisation that often uses the civilian population as cover.
Troubled neighbourhood
The Israelis say is evidence that on many occasions when civilians were killed their troops had been responding to incoming fire.
There are reports of the neighbourhood where the family lived, known as Ezbat Abed Rabbu, had been used by militant fighters in the past. During an incursion in the spring of 2008 the Israelis took over Khalid's house for two days.
But Khalid insists he is not Hamas, he is not a fighter. He said he worked for the Palestinian Authority and is a member of Fatah, Hamas's political rivals.
"There were no fighters here," he added, picking up crisp bags printed with Hebrew lettering that the soldiers seemed to have left behind. "Do you think soldiers eat crisps sitting on their tanks when there is incoming fire?"
Samar's father and her uncle have not spoken to each other since she left Gaza for treatment in Egypt, yet in separate interviews they told us the three girls were outside the house, in plain view, when they were shot.
We toured the part of Jabaliya where the Abed Rabbus lived. In an area that must cover at least a square mile, there are no houses left - no mosques, no factories and no orchards. The entire neighbourhood has been devastated. It may be true that fighters were hiding in the alleys of Jabaliya. It is possible that rockets were being fired from here towards Israel. But for the people who lived here, this is a story of wanton destruction. The world must now decide whether the Israeli action here was justified under the rules of war.

BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | New evidence of Gaza child deaths
 
Tyr
#28
THE shocking level of the last wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence, which ended with this weekend’s cease-fire, reminds us why a final resolution to the so-called Middle East crisis is so important. It is vital not just to break this cycle of destruction and injustice, but also to deny the religious extremists in the region who feed on the conflict an excuse to advance their own causes.
But everywhere one looks, among the speeches and the desperate diplomacy, there is no real way forward. A just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians is possible, but it lies in the history of the people of this conflicted land, and not in the tired rhetoric of partition and two-state solutions.
Although it’s hard to realize after the horrors we’ve just witnessed, the state of war between the Jews and Palestinians has not always existed. In fact, many of the divisions between Jews and Palestinians are recent ones. The very name “Palestine” was commonly used to describe the whole area, even by the Jews who lived there, until 1948, when the name “Israel” came into use.
Jews and Muslims are cousins descended from Abraham. Throughout the centuries both faced cruel persecution and often found refuge with one another. Arabs sheltered Jews and protected them after maltreatment at the hands of the Romans and their expulsion from Spain in the Middle Ages.
 
Stretch
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by TyrView Post

THE shocking level of the last wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence, which ended with this weekend’s cease-fire, reminds us why a final resolution to the so-called Middle East crisis is so important. It is vital not just to break this cycle of destruction and injustice, but also to deny the religious extremists in the region who feed on the conflict an excuse to advance their own causes.
But everywhere one looks, among the speeches and the desperate diplomacy, there is no real way forward. A just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians is possible, but it lies in the history of the people of this conflicted land, and not in the tired rhetoric of partition and two-state solutions.
Although it’s hard to realize after the horrors we’ve just witnessed, the state of war between the Jews and Palestinians has not always existed. In fact, many of the divisions between Jews and Palestinians are recent ones. The very name “Palestine” was commonly used to describe the whole area, even by the Jews who lived there, until 1948, when the name “Israel” came into use.
Jews and Muslims are cousins descended from Abraham. Throughout the centuries both faced cruel persecution and often found refuge with one another. Arabs sheltered Jews and protected them after maltreatment at the hands of the Romans and their expulsion from Spain in the Middle Ages.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
there is no ceasefire.....israeli gunboats are still shelling palestine
 
Cannuck
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

"Mr Hansen acknowledged that some of Unrwa's 24,000 Palestinian employees were probably members of militant groups such as Hamas.

"I'm sure that there are Hamas members on the Unrwa payroll," Mr Hansen said. "I don't see that as a crime."

How can they claim that there are for sure Hamas members in the UN, when the line before that claims "Probably" and the line before that said "Maybe"

It's fairly simple if you read it with an open mind. The statement "Mr Hansen acknowledged that some of Unrwa's 24,000 Palestinian employees were probably members of militant groups such as Hamas.", is the writer's opinion. The statement ""I'm sure that there are Hamas members on the Unrwa payroll. I don't see that as a crime." Is a quote from Hansen.

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Let's nit pick this a bit futher shall we? (not like any of it really matters)

Of course it matters. If the UN has Hamas militants on the payroll and sees no problem with it then they could hardly be considered neutral.

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Investigate means to seek the truth or to obtain an answer of some kind. Why go through an investigation if they already know the answer? (Or think they know the answer?)

Especially if it's the UN investigating itself. It already appears that they are not fair and unbiased.
 

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