NASA says retired space shuttles are up for grabs

Praxius

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CTV.ca | NASA says retired space shuttles are up for grabs

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA's soon-to-be-retired space shuttles are up for grabs.

The space agency says it's looking for ideas on where and how best to display its space shuttles once they stop flying in a few years.

It's put out a call to schools, science museums and "other appropriate organizations" that might be interested in showcasing one of the three remaining shuttles.

But beware -- NASA estimates it will cost about $42 million to get each shuttle ready and get it where it needs to go, and the final tab could end up much more.

The estimate includes $6 million to ferry the spaceship atop a modified jumbo jet to the closest major airport.

But the price could skyrocket depending on how far the display site is from the airport.

Only indoor, climate-controlled displays will be considered.

"The orbiters will not be disassembled for transportation or storage," NASA insists in its nine-page request for information.

One space shuttle appears headed to the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum in Washington. The remaining two would be placed in storage at Kennedy Space Center until their final homes are decided.

If a space shuttle is too pricey, NASA is offering some of its shuttle main engines for anywhere between $400,000 and $800,000, not counting shipping costs.

The space shuttles, so you know, will not come with any main engines.

NASA plans to retire Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavour by Sept. 30, 2010, in keeping with President George W. Bush's initiative calling for a return by astronauts to the moon by 2020. A transition team set up by president-elect Barack Obama is reviewing all the options, however, including the possibility of keeping the shuttles flying beyond 2010.

If that happens, then all space shuttle deals are off.

I'll open the bid at $2 for the set.
 

Praxius

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Actually one thing that crossed my mind, is the contract or agreement they made.

They won't sell any of the shuttles to anybody unless they keep them in climate controlled, in-door display.

What are they going to do if someone buys one of the shuttles, pays for it, they send it to them, they put it in the display...... and then a week later, starts working on the thing by putting new engines in them and start flying the thing around the place?

What is NASA gonna do? It's not theirs anymore as they just sold it, and they met their agreement by having the climate controlled indoor display.

What happens if the buyer then re-sells it to someone else later on because they need the space or just simply no longer want it?

If I was gonna buy a shuttle for that much money, like everything I buy, it'd be pretty pointless if I couldn't use the damn thing.

Last weekend I bought my very first cowboy hat for like $20 at a christmas party. Good quality, sturdy hat. I never had one, but I've been wearing it on and off for the last few days. I hate country music and I sure don't live the cowboy life, but I paid for the thing, I'll be using it.

Heck I could buy a Luke Skywalker figure still in its original packaging for around the same amount of money as the shuttle......

..... where the hell is my package for the shuttle? And the damn thing's been used at that..... if others were allowed to use it and I'm paying for it, I damn well will be using it too! *Stomps foot*
 

Tyr

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Actually one thing that crossed my mind, is the contract or agreement they made.

They won't sell any of the shuttles to anybody unless they keep them in climate controlled, in-door display.

What are they going to do if someone buys one of the shuttles, pays for it, they send it to them, they put it in the display...... and then a week later, starts working on the thing by putting new engines in them and start flying the thing around the place?

What is NASA gonna do? It's not theirs anymore as they just sold it, and they met their agreement by having the climate controlled indoor display.

What happens if the buyer then re-sells it to someone else later on because they need the space or just simply no longer want it?

If I was gonna buy a shuttle for that much money, like everything I buy, it'd be pretty pointless if I couldn't use the damn thing.

Last weekend I bought my very first cowboy hat for like $20 at a christmas party. Good quality, sturdy hat. I never had one, but I've been wearing it on and off for the last few days. I hate country music and I sure don't live the cowboy life, but I paid for the thing, I'll be using it.

Heck I could buy a Luke Skywalker figure still in its original packaging for around the same amount of money as the shuttle......

..... where the hell is my package for the shuttle? And the damn thing's been used at that..... if others were allowed to use it and I'm paying for it, I damn well will be using it too! *Stomps foot*

I worked on the Canadarm and the ISS and there is no way they would "sell" any part of the Shuttles except the metal for scrap. Even then it would be a waste of time as most of the shuttle is RCC (reinforced carbon-carbon)
 

Tonington

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What are they going to do if someone buys one of the shuttles, pays for it, they send it to them, they put it in the display...... and then a week later, starts working on the thing by putting new engines in them and start flying the thing around the place?

Do you know anybody who has purchased a purebred dog? You have to pay more if you're going to breed the dog. Otherwise there's problems registering and whatnot, and legal issues. Now, that's for a $1000 dog. You can imagine that a government agency and a multi-million dollar aircraft might be a little more insistent on the letter of the agreement they make.

But, flying it around? The thing isn't meant to 'fly around'. It's designed to fly up, under the power of three booster rockets @37 million HP, and then glide back to Earth. You'd need a whole team of engineers and rocket scientists, machinists and the like to even try, and what would be the point? To crash your $50 million piece of history into the ground?
 

#juan

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As Tonington says; The space shuttle is a glider. It can't fly under it's own power because it has none. It can get into space with two big solid fuel boosters and a huge fuel tank but it is a very limited glider and the pilot has to get the landing right the first time, because it can't go around and try again
 

Praxius

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I worked on the Canadarm and the ISS and there is no way they would "sell" any part of the Shuttles except the metal for scrap. Even then it would be a waste of time as most of the shuttle is RCC (reinforced carbon-carbon)

Wouldn't most of the technology in them be sorta out dated anyways? It'd be like trying to protect the technology of a Commadore 64.

And if they were just selling the hull, that would be pointless and I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much for a chunk of metal, no matter what historical background it has. There's no real history if you strip the thing to the bones.

But all I heard was that they wouldn't be shipped without the main engines, they didn't specify in the report that they'd take anything else out. (Funny thing is that the engines are still for sale, so you could work it around through a few rich friends to get a complete shuttle)
 

Praxius

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Do you know anybody who has purchased a purebred dog? You have to pay more if you're going to breed the dog. Otherwise there's problems registering and whatnot, and legal issues. Now, that's for a $1000 dog. You can imagine that a government agency and a multi-million dollar aircraft might be a little more insistent on the letter of the agreement they make.

And that's why I leave those sales to the chumps who got the money to burn.

A dogs a pet, a living animal, and if it wants to screw other dogs, it'd gonna do it, unless you train it to understand and follow the contract. :-? Pure bred or not, if it breeds with a different dog or just simply breeds, the dog I own and purchased will still be the same pure bred dog.

I look at pets not for their profit or how many future dogs they can spit out, but as a pet, a companion. An animal with character.

Like I said, I ain't one of them star wars freaks who spend a crap load of money on something you can never use because it'll bring down it's value.

Is this what the world has come to? (Never mind that's a different subject)

I don't normally go out to look for the Ferrari of the dogs when I look for a pet dog, I look for the one that looks like it needs attention, help, has character, etc etc.

Anyways, when you sell or give away an animal to someone, you no longer own it, therefore you have no say in the matter what happens to that animal after it is taken from you.

If you still had a say, then it'd be more of a loan or a lease..... it's like paying an arm and a leg for an adoption of a child a parent doesn't want to take care of, but still wants a say in how it's raised.

What if I was giving away or selling my pet for whatever reason? What if I don't want my pet subjected to being a breed machine for some sick person's profit seeking? Last I checked, the only thing I can do is hear what their intentions are, see what kind of a person they are, if they are lying, etc.... but once I say ok, here you go.... it's their's, not mine anymore.

I would say I have my temp-controlled, specialized room for storing my new shuttle, I would pay them their money, get it shipped to the new location, and the deal is done.

I said I'd store it there.... I never said where it would be when I am using it. :twisted:

But, flying it around? The thing isn't meant to 'fly around'. It's designed to fly up, under the power of three booster rockets @37 million HP, and then glide back to Earth. You'd need a whole team of engineers and rocket scientists, machinists and the like to even try, and what would be the point? To crash your $50 million piece of history into the ground?

No

Sure I know it's supposed to fly up, which is what I mean, fly it up and around the world. And I know it needs them booster rockets.......

....... or does it?

I wonder what I could put in here:


^ I sure wouldn't be bringing up giant sats and parts for the space station and I'd have this huge hanger to retro-fit into something...... more practical. And since those engines won't be included with the shuttle, I can change the type of propulsion it uses.

And yes, the shuttle is supposed to fly up..... but it doesn't have to fly straight up. Extend the length of the wings a bit, lighten it's load...... hmmmm.....

Oh yes.... I can think of all kinds of things one could do with one of those shuttles.

Then again, half of the things I can think of right now tend to involve me and my shuttle getting a long range missle shot at us. :-?
 
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#juan

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At at least forty two million for a shuttle with no engine, they are hardly "up for grabs". All the conditions of sale will drive away most potential customers. We all know NASA is broke and a few hundred million $ for used space shuttles would keep the wolf away from the door for a while.
 

Tonington

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And that's why I leave those sales to the chumps who got the money to burn.

A dogs a pet, a living animal, and if it wants to screw other dogs, it'd gonna do it, unless you train it to understand and follow the contract. :-? Pure bred or not, if it breeds with a different dog or just simply breeds, the dog I own and purchased will still be the same pure bred dog.

The terms of the contract are not placed on the dog, they're placed on the dog owner. If you can't accept that agreement you shouldn't buy a pure breed. Mutts are healthier anyways.

But that's not the point. The point is when there are purchasing agreements, they're meant to be followed.

Anyways, when you sell or give away an animal to someone, you no longer own it, therefore you have no say in the matter what happens to that animal after it is taken from you.

Purebred animals aren't given away. The shuttles aren't being given away. There are all kinds of things that are sold with agreements attached. They're legal documents. It's a sales contract.

I would say I have my temp-controlled, specialized room for storing my new shuttle, I would pay them their money, get it shipped to the new location, and the deal is done.

Oh yah? Where is it? You think they're not going to do background checks?

Sure I know it's supposed to fly up, which is what I mean, fly it up and around the world. And I know it needs them booster rockets.......

Well, despite what you said and say now, you're jumping the shark here. It's not a simple proposition of putting rockets on it. Where are you getting the rockets? Who is mixing the fuel? Who is pumping the fuel? Who is programming the flight computer? Does it still have a flight computer? Who is piloting the space craft? How are you tracking the space craft? Do you have a satellite to use for communications? Do you have a vehicle to ferry the craft to a launch pad? Do you have a launch pad?

These and a thousand more preparations to make, eventualities to plan for, like your trial.

I sure wouldn't be bringing up giant sats and parts for the space station and I'd have this huge hanger to retro-fit into something...... more practical. And since those engines won't be included with the shuttle, I can change the type of propulsion it uses.

What kind of propulsion can you think of that would create enough thrust to lift that hunk of metal off the ground, and still be navigable?

See, this is why NASA would not sell to someone like you, if you even had the money or desire to buy it. They don't need bad PR. They don't need the legal hassles associated.

And yes, the shuttle is supposed to fly up..... but it doesn't have to fly straight up. Extend the length of the wings a bit, lighten it's load...... hmmmm.....

Then it's not a shuttle. If you want to fly into space, there are plenty of private companies. There was an X-prize for this very thing. The money you would need to spend on the shuttle isn't worth it. That's the whole point of the X-prize, and part of the reason they're scrapping the shuttle. It requires massive amounts of money to fly and operate one.

Then again, half of the things I can think of right now tend to involve me and my shuttle getting a long range missle shot at us. :-?

It would be interesting though. People would talk about your insanity for decades. There might even be movies made about it. :lol:
 

Praxius

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The terms of the contract are not placed on the dog, they're placed on the dog owner. If you can't accept that agreement you shouldn't buy a pure breed. Mutts are healthier anyways.

But that's not the point. The point is when there are purchasing agreements, they're meant to be followed.

And who's going to be there to continually check if they're being followed? What about after a year? 5 years? 10?

Purebred animals aren't given away.

Sure they do, depending on the person and their intentions..... there's no law stating only greedy people are allowed to own purbreds and that they must sell them. It is unlikely they would give them away, but it's possible.

The shuttles aren't being given away. There are all kinds of things that are sold with agreements attached. They're legal documents. It's a sales contract.

Yet after I sign the contract and everything is paid in full, I have not once had someone come around to check up on me or to make sure things are going as they wanted.

Sure there are all kinds of agreements and such with things like vehicles, etc.... but those are mostly through lease agreements. If you pay for and own the vehicle, you can drive the thing off some cliff if you wanted to.... if not, then demolition drivers are in a world of crap.

Oh yah? Where is it? You think they're not going to do background checks?

Where is it? The same place where all my millions are locked away.... in my head. But if I had enough to buy a shuttle, I imagine I would have enough money to have some form of compound to keep it in...... but once again, that doesn't mean I'd keep it there the whole time.

Well, despite what you said and say now, you're jumping the shark here. It's not a simple proposition of putting rockets on it. Where are you getting the rockets?

The same place I got my millions of dollars to buy the shuttle.... my imagination. Once again, if I had the money to buy a shuttle, I'd have enough money to develop my own technology to put into it.

Who is mixing the fuel?

Who said anything about fuel? I was thinking of a giant rubber band...... no but actually, I was thinking more of a nuclear fueled or perhaps a new form of energy.

This guy on The Dragons Den a few days ago invented an electric battery which its power was amplified greatly through a magnetic pass through process..... basically you get more energy from less that we're normally used to burning these days..... there's a few options out there.

Who is pumping the fuel?

Me and a foot peddle.

Who is programming the flight computer? Does it still have a flight computer?

Flight computer? Bah, who needs those things.... that's like cruise control on the highway.... where the fun in that? I'll have a system programmed to tell me if I am going a big off course or in danger, etc..... but I don't want my shuttle to be easy for others to steal. If someone is going to steal my shuttle, then I'd rather make it as difficult as possible to use so that they end up crashing it and dying...... that way if I can't have it, nobody can.

Who is piloting the space craft?

Me.

How are you tracking the space craft?

Why would I need to track the shuttle if I'm going to be inside of it.... I'll know where it is :p And I'll retro-fit the whole thing to be stealth. When it goes for landing the thing, it'll be more or less by eye. I'll just point the nose towards Canada and then tilt up to deflect the heat, when the heat is gone, then I will then open up my newly modified cockpit's transparent floor for better viewing.

Do you have a satellite to use for communications?

Hmmm, I suppose I will need one for sending out my demands in regards to me using my Doomsday Ray.... I'll just hack Fox's.

Do you have a vehicle to ferry the craft to a launch pad?

Naw, it'd be like Airplane II or Thunderbirds



There won't be a launch pad per say. There will be an angled take off area which will propell the shuttle into the air like a sling shot at the same time the new proto-type engines, extended wings and lighter weight will project it up and into outer space.

The reason why the shuttle now needs those boosters, is because of it's current design and that it is usally carrying a large payload. It's been used continually as a work horse, a cargo vessel, etc.... with a few mods, it could be something much better.

Do you have a launch pad?

Well if I have millions apon billions of dollars to spend on a climate controlled hanger, a 2nd hand shuttle, which I then retro-fit with new technology I have invented or purchased, and all that jazz, I think a launch pad would be a given.

These and a thousand more preparations to make, eventualities to plan for, like your trial.

Geez Ton, you're forgetting, this is Rocket Science, not Brain Surgery. I've seen enough Star Trek TNG to know what I need, now hand me that ice cream scoop.

What kind of propulsion can you think of that would create enough thrust to lift that hunk of metal off the ground, and still be navigable?

Neuclear would be one.... cold fusion would be another.... that Energizer Bunny seems to do a good job for power:



And that other technology I mentioned earlier that a guy seemed to have working pretty sweetly.... a few modifications and a few tests over a couple of years could pan something out.

At least it'd give me a hobby.

See, this is why NASA would not sell to someone like you, if you even had the money or desire to buy it. They don't need bad PR. They don't need the legal hassles associated.

You just jumped the gun before I could even answer..... seish....

But it doesn't really matter what NASA wants, cuz whoever they sell it to will probably end up selling it on Ebay for even more, like that soviet sub that used to be on there...... I can then purchase it and then NASA can take a flying leap. :twisted:

Or I could persuade the purchaser that it would be in his or her best interests to sell it to me and my organization of world domination..... wait, I said too much.

Then it's not a shuttle. If you want to fly into space, there are plenty of private companies. There was an X-prize for this very thing. The money you would need to spend on the shuttle isn't worth it. That's the whole point of the X-prize, and part of the reason they're scrapping the shuttle. It requires massive amounts of money to fly and operate one.

Now how am I supposed to get my doomsday device into outer space or the moon with those small little things?

And where's the creativity?

It would be interesting though. People would talk about your insanity for decades. There might even be movies made about it. :lol:

Well after I take over the world with my one shuttle and my doomsday device, it would be a compliment to make movies about my heroic adventures.

And of course if I fail, then it'll just be some Warner Bros. Spoof.

Then again, maybe it'd be cheaper in the long run to just build my own from scratch.... I don't really want to use 2nd hand zero gravity poop tubes.
 
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Tyr

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As Tonington says; The space shuttle is a glider. It can't fly under it's own power because it has none. It can get into space with two big solid fuel boosters and a huge fuel tank but it is a very limited glider and the pilot has to get the landing right the first time, because it can't go around and try again

It's more like a "curbed" descent. It doesn't glide very well and drops like a rock.
 

Tyr

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Wouldn't most of the technology in them be sorta out dated anyways? It'd be like trying to protect the technology of a Commadore 64.

And if they were just selling the hull, that would be pointless and I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much for a chunk of metal, no matter what historical background it has. There's no real history if you strip the thing to the bones.

But all I heard was that they wouldn't be shipped without the main engines, they didn't specify in the report that they'd take anything else out. (Funny thing is that the engines are still for sale, so you could work it around through a few rich friends to get a complete shuttle)

You wouldn't get the Navigation system or the optics. They're the same technology as "spy" satellites and they just don't sell that kind of equipment
 

Tyr

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Wouldn't most of the technology in them be sorta out dated anyways? It'd be like trying to protect the technology of a Commadore 64.

And if they were just selling the hull, that would be pointless and I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much for a chunk of metal, no matter what historical background it has. There's no real history if you strip the thing to the bones.

But all I heard was that they wouldn't be shipped without the main engines, they didn't specify in the report that they'd take anything else out. (Funny thing is that the engines are still for sale, so you could work it around through a few rich friends to get a complete shuttle)

You might be able to get the engines, but what would you use for fuel? It's not ordinary avgas