Time to renegotiate NAFTA

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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I agree, Canada should reopen and renegotiate NAFTA. The current deal is too much for big corporations and keeping the public out of trade law. Deregulation has gone too far. Oil and water are national resources are too important to be left in the hands of capitalism.


http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=15af810f-ab06-4da3-9f2b-7c37f2262343

Renegotiate NAFTA: NDP


Janice Tibbetts , Canwest News Service

Published: Monday, September 22, 2008

HAMILTON, Ont. - An NDP government would fight to reopen the North American Free Trade Agreement to beef up protection for Canadian jobs, NDP Leader Jack Layton said Monday.

"We want a new NAFTA. We want a North American fair trade agreement," Layton told a crowd of about 100 supporters. "We want a fair deal, not a sellout."

With the prospect of the next U.S. president reopening NAFTA, Layton also said his New Democrats, among other things, would fight to add "meaningful" labour and environmental standards to the deal, reform the energy provisions, which require the export of fossil fuels to the United States even when there are shortages in Canada.

He said the NDP would also fight to remove the deal's contentious provision that permits foreign investors to legally challenge Canadian policies.

Layton said he is prepared to do whatever it takes to get his party's proposals onto the federal cabinet table, including partnering with other parties to stop the policies of Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

While Layton insisted he is campaigning to become prime minister and would work with any party from that position, he told reporters he would negotiate with any Parliament that Canadians elect, minority or otherwise, in order to "put kitchen table issues front and centre" - such as a national daycare program and training more doctors and nurses.

"It goes back to my days on municipal council, you roll up your sleeves and you try to solve a problem," Layton said during a television interview in the morning. "I think right now the problem we have is Stephen Harper and his Conservatives. They're taking the country down the wrong path."

In his speech, Layton condemned Harper's policies on the environment and Afghanistan, promising the NDP would roll back $50 billion in corporate tax cuts he says the Conservatives have bestowed on their "corporate boardroom buddies."
As for fighting violent crime, he said Harper was wrong about a proposal to publish names of young offenders to crack down on troubled youth.

"I think to deal with serious violent crime, we need more police officers, we need serious handgun controls, we need a witness protection program that actually works so people aren't afraid to come forward with information," Layton said. "We need investments in youth programs so that young people don't end up on these paths toward gang participation. I have yet to meet anyone who has said to me that the most important issue on their mind is the publishing of names of underage offenders."

He also lashed out at Liberal Leader Stephane Dion, accusing him of "propping up" Harper's minority Conservative government since winning the leadership in December 2006.
He urged Canadians to be skeptical about the promises and policies introduced in the Liberal party's new election platform in areas such as childcare and pharmacare.

"What we've seen so far is the things that they promise they may decide not to follow through on," Layton said. "What's new about this election is they'll make a promise and say mid-election that it's no longer their promise. I don't think Canadians can have a lot of confidence in the kind of commitments we're seeing laid out by the Liberal party today."
Layton chose to deliver his economic messages in southern Ontario, where the manufacturing sector has been hit hard by job losses.

He was also scheduled to head to Quebec on Monday, where he plans to make several stops over two days to try to shore up hopes of picking up a seat or two in the province, where the party held one Montreal seat when Parliament dissolved in early September.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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Renegotiate? Kill it. You can't set honourable terms with someone who crosses their fingers at the bargaining table and sets the odds in their favour. Does softwood lumber bring anything to mind?
 

B00Mer

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Renegotiate? Kill it. You can't set honourable terms with someone who crosses their fingers at the bargaining table and sets the odds in their favour. Does softwood lumber bring anything to mind?

Agree. What are we forced under NAFTA to send 60% of our natural gas resources to the USA.. something like that..

Anyone watching the markets.. Wall Street down 400 points and oil up $25 in 1 hour. 8O

Canada needs to worry about Canadians 1st. Screw the rest of the world..
 

Unforgiven

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May 28, 2007
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Jack Layton is Canada's Obama.. without the soul.

That's why he hooked up with Chow. Legally he's entitled to half hers. So technically it's like Canada's B Hussein Obama with just a pinch of soul. I tink so.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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Unforgiven, can you stay on the topic. Make another thread if you want to talk about a person's private life. This is a thread about policy options.

The US has screwed Canada on softwood lumber, a good reason to renegotiate NAFTA in itself. The US in a year or so will require us to have passports to travel there. For thr US it's always hardball. Empires do that sort of stuff.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Renegotiating NAFTA is desireable but dangerous. Under that agreement we are obliged to provide our good neighbour with oil and gas especially when that country is at war which they convieniently always are. When in times of emperial collapse there occurs a contraction of the sphere of influence that present sphere includes hydro-carbon deposites that the junkie empire thrives on. We will most likely be sucked dry by a thirsty remnant of empire who can no longer conduct overseas forays and raids for its necessary resources. I think our man Mulrooney was made abundantly aware of these facts of life as has every Prime Minister since because I don't think you'd make a deal like we've made with the yankees without a goddamn big gun to your head then now and forever. We got water, we got trouble.
 

B00Mer

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darkbeaver, before I reply to your post would you please go shave so we can call you BaldBeaver from here on?? :lol:

Your post is saying that Canada should fear a U.S. invasion. Do you not think the U.K. and other European nations would come to our aid if the United States tried to invade or threaten invasion for resources?
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
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Where to start.

The opening statement in this thread is a typical dipper brain cloud (I liked that show) .

Free trade has created jobs, new businesses and expanded old businesses.

Jack is a socialist from way back and firmly believes in state control and protectionism.

There are a couple of slight issues with Jack's theories however.

Open up or try to renegotiate free trade and the whole deal goes out the window.
Now considering that over 80% of our exports go to the USA how do you think that will affect our businesses?
We sell the Americans 80% of our exports and they sell what...15% or 20% of their exports to us. Frankly I cant be bothered to look it up but I know it's disproportionate.
Do you really think we can win a trade war against the Americans with those numbers?
Why try when we are staring a global slowdown in the eye?

The energy thing.
First off its Alberta's oil and gas and Alberta get's to decide if, when and who buys it.
Actually its not all Alberta's, its also Saskatchewan's, BC's, the Yukon's, Nova Scotia's, Newfoundland's and wee bit from Manitoba.
Nobody tells Quebec who they can export their excess power to.
Nobody tells PEI where it can sell its potatoes.
And so on.
So unless you live in Alberta why worry about Alberta's oil and gas?

Then we have the old, "we have to sell the Americans our oil thing".
Well no, actually we don't.
Alberta can sell its oil to whoever it wants.
Or I should say the oil companies operating in Alberta can sell it to whoever they want.
Free trade just means if we are selling oil anyway we have to allow the Americans an equal shot at buying it.
So if we want to build a pipeline to the coast and a LPG liquefaction plant and sign a long term contract with the Dear Leader in North Korea we can.
The Americans just get to try and outbid them.
If the province of Alberta decides tomorrow that all the oil and gas not used in Alberta stays shut in there is not a damn thing the Americans can do.
Well... except for sue us within an inch of our lives for breach of about a million contracts.

Lone Wolf is right, the Americans did screw us on softwood. They ARE bullies.
Where else are we gonna sell it?
It's not like other countries are outbidding the Americans for it.
Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
The best way to get back at the Americans is make money off them.

And finally Jack drags out gun control.
You would think most tax-payers would wake up screaming at the thought of ramping
that rats-nest up again.
Jack wants strict controls on handgun ownership.
It's obvious to me that Jack hasn't registered too many handguns in Canada.
You could license your basement as a nuclear weapons research facility quicker than
you can get a handgun permit in this country.
Believe me when I tell you that as far as handgun permits go...it already seems fairly well regulated.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
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Ahh an American I see.

Quote
"Correction: time to expunge NAFTA."

If your markets keep tanking and your dollar goes down the toilet.
Alberta in a few years will OWN you all.

Canadians are gonna start snapping up houses down there because its cheaper than stayin at the Motel 6.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Under this, or any agreement, can first nation people of their respective countries trade amongst themselves that are free from all taxes and tariffs? The same articles one can get at any first nation store should also be available for trade.
Taken to the extreme it is only these people that should be on any board that makes decisions in this are, not big business, a watchdog (it is their land they are protecting) on big businesses to verify they are playing fair and square.
Right off the bat, cocoa leaves should be also on the trade able list, but just for this select group.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Renegotiating NAFTA is desireable but dangerous. Under that agreement we are obliged to provide our good neighbour with oil and gas especially when that country is at war which they convieniently always are. When in times of emperial collapse there occurs a contraction of the sphere of influence that present sphere includes hydro-carbon deposites that the junkie empire thrives on. We will most likely be sucked dry by a thirsty remnant of empire who can no longer conduct overseas forays and raids for its necessary resources. I think our man Mulrooney was made abundantly aware of these facts of life as has every Prime Minister since because I don't think you'd make a deal like we've made with the yankees without a goddamn big gun to your head then now and forever. We got water, we got trouble.

Sounds like shades of "War Plan Red." It's and old plan but a very interesting read. What
you are hinting at was once on the drawing board.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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darkbeaver, before I reply to your post would you please go shave so we can call you BaldBeaver from here on?? :lol:

Your post is saying that Canada should fear a U.S. invasion. Do you not think the U.K. and other European nations would come to our aid if the United States tried to invade or threaten invasion for resources?
No I don't, especially since they are and have been under American fascist control from Old London Town and Wall Street. If that influence remains they would concievably aid in an American takeover. We are a resource rich nation of some thirty million, those resources will become vital to the western coalition as the American sphere shrinks. Every Canadian Government since Mulrooney has bent over backwards to accomodate American business and security needs , economically we have already been brought under control by internal treason by our business class. Uncle Sam is on the ropes Boomer and desperate, no option will be removed from thier famous table. It would take very little to mobilize American sentiment for that purpose, just a few months of winter with less than enough heating oil and gas works wonders to mobilize a underinformed population against percieved terrorists. The blueprint has already been successfully used many times. Historically it's not farfetched in the least, as a matter of fact it's common as dirt.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Sounds like shades of "War Plan Red." It's and old plan but a very interesting read. What
you are hinting at was once on the drawing board.

Exactly Ron. The necessary revisions to those plans have already been made and are updated constantly. Pentagon gameing runs 24/7, the minute it becomes profitable to bomb and invade Canada it'll happen. It's nothing personal it's just good business.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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Through NAFTA Canada has lost control of its resources through legislation. Foreign investors have to be treated equally like Canadian investors. And the gov't can no longer intervene to favour Canadian investors except in extreme circumstances. We must now sell oil to the US, even if we are short.

Basically, political control of the economy is being eroded. Canada is one of the best countries to invest in. Yet NAFTA takes away more power from Canadians.
 

Lester

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Sep 28, 2007
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So what do we do? capitulate. We need a poison pill, a financial scorched earth policy that would push the US economy down a steep slippery path should they be so arrogant. But, I think that in here, the power of supplying 3,000,000 bbl of oil per day to the US(2015) domestic market is underestimated. If something were to happen to that supply, chaos would ensue in the U.S.. It would not be a simple matter of inconvenience, how would they replace it? It would be difficult for the US to invade, we are not iraq. we could do serious damage without firing a shot.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
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your all nuts!!! period...

We make a fortune selling gas to the U.S. they are quite willing to buy it..It's called free trade ..it works.

If I see a bbq on the u.s. side made in north America for cheaper..I buy it there and pay gst and bring it home..If it's cheaper on this side i buy it here. It works!!

Wal-mart coming to Canada (as much as I dilike the store) was not a disaster for Canada, It made Loblaws, Zeller's and others much better stores to shop in. The now compete and do play on the same field as the U.S. giant.

Most of the problem with our manufacturing is china NOT the U.S! Come to think of it our problem is also the U.S.A.'s problem. Our efforts collectively should be placed on the Asian deficeit, not on minor differences of two nations that for all intense purposes are concidered the same place around the world..It's only at home that these slight differences are magnified!

You want more manuf. at home...get people to stop buying the cheapest item possible, You can't force people to not cut of their noses..they seem quite willing too, then blame our southern neighbour instead..duh!
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
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btw they are not Canadian resources? Where did you ever get that from..we are not a socialist state. They are owned and controlled by the companies who drill and mine for them. They sell them and pay taxes...where is this citizen ownership idea coming from?