85 year old woman stops burglars...


thomaska
#1
I'd say this effectively craps all over their "Street Cred"...

LAKE LYNN, Pa. --

An 85-year-old great-grandmother from Lake Lynn, Fayette County kept an alleged burglar at bay using a .22-caliber pistol.


According to police, a 17-year-old suspect was attempting to burglarize Leda Smith overnight.


That's when Smith grabbed her gun and told the teen that she would shoot him if he moved, police said.

"I had the gun on him before he turned around and said, 'you've had it,' " Smith told Channel 11-News.


According to police, Smith ordered the boy to dial 911 and then gave him some advice.

"Dial 911 and don't attempt to throw the phone at me, or do anything bad or i'll just shoot you," Smith said.


When police arrived, they took the teen into custody.

Charges have been filed against the boy and an alleged accomplice.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/17223812/detail.html
 
Colpy
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaskaView Post

I'd say this effectively craps all over their "Street Cred"...

LAKE LYNN, Pa. --

An 85-year-old great-grandmother from Lake Lynn, Fayette County kept an alleged burglar at bay using a .22-caliber pistol.


According to police, a 17-year-old suspect was attempting to burglarize Leda Smith overnight.


That's when Smith grabbed her gun and told the teen that she would shoot him if he moved, police said.

"I had the gun on him before he turned around and said, 'you've had it,' " Smith told Channel 11-News.


According to police, Smith ordered the boy to dial 911 and then gave him some advice.

"Dial 911 and don't attempt to throw the phone at me, or do anything bad or i'll just shoot you," Smith said.


When police arrived, they took the teen into custody.

Charges have been filed against the boy and an alleged accomplice.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/17223812/detail.html

And in Canada, the boys would have been released, and Granny would have gone to the slammer.

No joke.
 
thomaska
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

And in Canada, the boys would have been released, and Granny would have gone to the slammer.

No joke.

I just cannot fathom how someone breaks into your house, and they have no reasonable expectation of getting shot.

It seems like it doesn't cross their minds...like they are entitled to come relieve you of your belongings or worse, with complete impunity.

To be honest, I would have shot that kid. I can only assume the worst if someone has broken into my house. For my and my family's sake.
 
#juan
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaskaView Post

I just cannot fathom how someone breaks into your house, and they have no reasonable expectation of getting shot.

It seems like it doesn't cross their minds...like they are entitled to come relieve you of your belongings or worse, with complete impunity.

To be honest, I would have shot that kid. I can only assume the worst if someone has broken into my house. For my and my family's sake.

Colpy this sounds a lot like you would welcome the opportunity to blow somebody away. The kid could have been scared witless. You have to think a little bit before you pull the trigger. Granny didn't have to shoot. Why would you?
I sometimes think the Second Amendment nuts are as bad as the criminals
 
Colpy
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

Colpy this sounds a lot like you would welcome the opportunity to blow somebody away. The kid could have been scared witless. You have to think a little bit before you pull the trigger. Granny didn't have to shoot. Why would you?
I sometimes think the Second Amendment nuts are as bad as the criminals

That wasn't me....it was Thomaska.

When I was a kid, I got into a lot of trouble........luckily, it didn't ruin my life as I was never convicted of anything....

Suffice to say, I'd be hesitant to shoot a kid in my house unless I was threatened....which doesn't change one bit the fact that a man's home is his castle, and those that violate his premises should do so at their own risk.
 
#juan
#6
Sorry Colpy

I grabbed the wrong guy here. Thomaska said he would have shot the kid.......I guess because he would likely have gotten away with it. Who was the accomplice?
 
Ron in Regina
#7
In Canada, the 85 year old woman would most likely have been beaten and/or stabbed by this 17yr old.
This would have been just another unsolved crime statistic. As far as the scared 17yr old "boy," he'd just
broken into this woman's home, and with adrenaline racing he'd have been prepared to get himself out of
her home if push came to shove with somebody's grandmother. Good on Granny!!!

My home has only been broken into once, and I wasn't home, but my dog was. The dog was fine when I
did get home, and there was quite a mess to clean up, and I haven't had a break in since. I was pretty
worried (this is Canada after all) that the police would show up on my doorstep to fine/arrest me, and to
have my dog put down. The criminal, once he made it out of my home, must have crawled into a hole
somewhere to lick his wounds...and must not have gone to the police or a hospital. That fact that as a
home owner and a taxpayer, that I should even have been concerned about legal issues due to a thief
say's that there is something really wrong with our Justice system.

http://xs330.xs.to/xs330/08342/my_do...f_them_866.jpg
Last edited by Ron in Regina; Aug 19th, 2008 at 08:16 PM..Reason: Picture didn't show up...some JPEG to URL thing...
 
no color
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

And in Canada, the boys would have been released, and Granny would have gone to the slammer.

No joke.

Oh, you didn't know? The criminals in Canada have way more rights than we do. Our justice system is catered to favor the criminal. Nice society we live in.
 
quandary121
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

And in Canada, the boys would have been released, and Granny would have gone to the slammer.

No joke.

In Briton the woman would have been arrested for attacking the criminal so to speak..

NO JOKE....

A woman in the news about a month ago, worked in a shop ,some guy came in and began to rob the place, armed with a hammer,someone in the shop confronted him, and was hit several times,the woman shopkeeper attacked the man with a broom ,who then ran off ,all this was caught on cctv ,and when the police turn up ,they caution the woman..go fig..
 
Nuggler
#10
Ron in Regina


Congrats to your dog, Ron. Don't sell it.

Big dog?

LMAO.......sorry about the mess, though. Assuming any blood was the perps......
 
Ron in Regina
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

Ron in Regina


Congrats to your dog, Ron. Don't sell it.

Big dog?

LMAO.......sorry about the mess, though. Assuming any blood was the perps......

SELL HIM???? He's Family!!! Yeah, he's a bit oversized for his breed. He stands 33" at the
withers, an weighs in at just a hair under 70kgs. Loves all Kids and is as friendly as can
be, unless he's protecting his home or his famiy. Yes, my Dog was just fine. Canada's
legal system is such a mess.
 
Ron in Regina
#12
OK....I can't sleep and I've got to tell a story to compare to the topic of this thread.

Tonight I got to deal with the Police again...and I know that every time that
a member of the Public ever has to deal with the Police, it's always a potentially
fatal situation for that member of the Public. I relearned a lesson tonight that I must
have somehow forgotten. Only call the Police for File numbers after the fact and for
insurance purposes only, and that'll minimize your contact with them, which may
very well extend your life. I will not ever forget that again.
Tonight is Tuesday August 19th, 2008. In hindsight, I guess the Baby-bonus
must be out. After supper tonight, I was taking my garbage out to the can in the
alley, and out behind my garage (leaning up against my buddy's travel trailer) are
four Native peoples (three males and a female) dressed in the MTV version of
Ghetto with the white ball caps worn at a 45 degree angle, etc...smoking Crack.
I asked them to please move alone. They said, "Stop being so white, Whitey!
F**k Off! We're not doing nothing (double negative, yeah, I know)!" So I asked them
to move on up the alley to continue their doing nothing. Things started to get ugly. In
an effort to convince them to move along, I called my Dog and my Son as I was
outnumbered four to one. As my Son was distracting them, I quickly called the Police
(at 7:56pm) and got right back before my Son got jumped or stabbed. It took us over
ten minutes to get the Crackheads to leave.
I called the Police back (at 8:17pm) and told them that it was all over and that we'd
gotten the Crackheads to finally leave, but like cowards, I fully expect (when I'm not
home) to have broken windows in our home and cars and slashed tires and such, so
is there a file number I can get (even thought the Police didn't show up) to tie back to
the near future damage I expect. I was told that all there is, is an RA# for the call and
that is RA0804968.
After that, a cat got out of the house and it took about an hour to get it out from
under the deck on the back of the house, and then we assembled and installed a
ceiling fan downstairs as it got up to +33c today...and where sitting out on the deck
cooling off at about 10:30pm when the dogs started barking at someone out in our
front yard in the dark. The dogs where barking at the front gate, and all I could see
was the silhouettes of at least two people. Because we where sitting out on the deck
at the back of the house, I didn't have the motion light on at the front of the house. I
did have a 3ft piece of pipe in my hand as I though the Crackheads where back, as
the Police never did show up. Once I was at the gate I was able to see that it was the
Police, so I told them to step back from the gate (due to the dogs) so I could come
through.
I came through the gate backwards so I could keep the three dogs in the yard and
was telling the dogs, "No!" (as in, "get down," in the limited vocabulary that a dog would
understand) when the female office yelled "Put down the pipe!" and then grabbed me
and attempted to throw me to the ground. Being a law abiding citizen, I dropped the
piece of fence and just went with the motions while asking her, "just what the hell was
she doing?" She was yelling that she's the authority and I should have listened to her
and she claimed she almost pulled her gun and shot me. nice...I told her to get off my
back (literally) and get the hell out of my yard.
Things really became ugly at that point, and my Son and his Wife where coming down
the front steps, and my Buddy was coming out of the side gate. To keep my Son out of
the mix, I told him to "Go inside and call our Lawyer, Now!" and he did.
Both officers (I'm using the term very loosely) proceeded to throw out F-bombs and
threats to myself, my Son, my Friend, and the male officer threatened that he'd shoot
our dogs through our fence and then claim that they got out. It was surreal. All the while
I'm telling them that over two hours ago, there was a crime they could fight, but not now
and please leave. Go. Go away. Get off my property. Repeatedly over and over.
The Female Officer told me I was going to be arrested (she didn't say why) and I kept
telling her that she could leave my property and go fight some crime somewhere. They
where not needed or wanted hours after the fact, and someone somewhere might actually
need or want some kind of Police response.
These Officers just wouldn't leave, though the little one (the male) did back into the
vacant lot beside my house but seemed hell bent on trying to pick a fight with my Buddy.
It was stupid. It took my Lawyers wife arriving (turns out our Family lawyer is out of town)
for these officers to start behaving like non-antagonistic criminals. The Female says, "We
have a dangerous and stressful job, and if you don't like our response time, call your
City Councilor and request more funds for more Police." Huh??? This city already has a
Gang problem with crime stats at the bottom of Canada, and this Officer wants me to fight
for more Gang members (with badges) to come out an assault the public (hours after a
response would have even been relevant) after the Police knew full well we'd run off the
Crackheads off our own, as we had no choice without a (even remotely) timely Police
response. We really don't need more Police like these two. We need real Police!!!
How about we get ride of the incompetent cops, and the ones that are left can do their jobs
instead of assaulting the public like this goat rodeo tonight. The officers that responded where
a petite female and a small male, who I believe where compensating for their physical short
comings with HUGE CHIP's ON THEIR SHOULDERS and violence against the public. Honest
to God, the time they wasted as we tried to just get them to leave, they could have gone out
and responded to an actual crime that might actually require a response in a still relevant time
frame. They might actually get to deal with a real criminal then. Actually, in hindsight, by stalling
and trying to pick a fight with my Friend (I kid you not), they ensured that they'd show up long
after any danger for their next call. They where worse to get rid of than the Crackheads. We
actually managed to convince the Crackheads that the Police where coming, and even criminals
are answerable (in a lenient fashion) to the Law. Not so for the Police it seems....
If a complaint is ever filed, the Police Police the Police, and then have something that I
believe is now called the "Public Complaints Commission" (formerly the Police Complaints
Commission) to rubber stamp it. This process will be drawn out over about a year and a half,
at the taxpayers expense, when everyone knows in advance that the Police will Police the
Police and find the Police innocent. "Thanks for Coming" sort of thing.
The Public in Montreal is shocked and outraged to recently discover that this is how
complaints are dealt with out there. Here, it is business as usual. I license my car, and I license
my dog. I don't speed or steal or pimp or prostitute myself on a corner near the Police Department.
I cross in the crosswalks, and pay my taxes, and mow my lawn, and pick up discarded needles in
the school grounds and parks and such and dispose of them in the garbage before some kid finds
them....and I was assaulted and threatened tonight by the Police. If my Lawyers wife (God bless
her) didn't arrive when she did, I would be in jail tonight and who knows what the story would have
been. It would have kept these two sorry excuses of Police officers out of harms way for another
baby bonus by ruffing up a non-criminal who wouldn't have fought back against them, instead of
going out and actually fighting crime. I believe that I have learned tonight just why Regina has the
highest crime rates, year after year after year...it's the Police that we have, instead of the real
Police that we need. I am so thoroughly disgusted. I know that filing a complaint is a useless
gesture, and thus the reason this Constable wanted me to file a complaint. She seemed to be
trying to dare me to file a complaint, as both she and I know how that (or almost any) complaint
would turn out. I didn't even see any sense in accepting her business card, but my Lawyers wife
did accept it.
"Protect and Serve," but protect and serve whom? In Saskatchewan, between April 1,2007
and March 31, 2008 a total of TWO complaints where found substantiated out of the 142 that
where filed. The previous year, less than 14% of the complaints filed in Saskatchewan where
found substantiated. Why where the other 86+% even filed when the Public knows what a long
and drawn out process (with zero personal gain whatsoever) the complaints process really is?
The Police seem to be out to protect and serve the Police, but not the Public. The truly ironic
thing is that the Police are still members of the Public, but just in an elite class where the Laws
that most of us have to follow; because it's the right thing to do; only apply if there are enough
witness's and video that reaches YouTube and the Media before the Police can claim and hide
it. Who's going to Police the Police? It seems to not be the Police. No wonder Saskatchewan
has the crime rate that it does.

Wow...I feel better now that that's off my chest. Sorry for the rant but it's interesting in comparison
to how the 85 year old woman in the USA was treated. Morning comes in three and a half hours.
I think I might be able to sleep now.
 
Ron in Regina
#13
Ironically, if someone else was to tell me the story above that I've just shared, I'm not sure
that I'd believe them, and would be thinking in the back of my mind that they must have
somehow provoked or incited the whole incident. In this case, that's just not the case.

In the USA, I bet the Police would have identified themselves before I was about six feet from
them in the event that I was better armed than they where. That sure didn't happen here...
 
MissAnnika
#14
i say "way to go!" i'm very territorial, so i'd kick some *** too if ppl were trying to steal my stuff, no matter what age i am.
 
tracy
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

And in Canada, the boys would have been released, and Granny would have gone to the slammer.

No joke.

I call bulls**t on that one. As long as your gun is legal, cops aren't going to arrest you for holding a robber until they get there. It wasn't too long ago that an alleged drug dealer shot a couple of cops and killed one without going to jail and you think this kind of story would result in jail time for the little old lady?
 
Colpy
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by tracyView Post

I call bulls**t on that one. As long as your gun is legal, cops aren't going to arrest you for holding a robber until they get there. It wasn't too long ago that an alleged drug dealer shot a couple of cops and killed one without going to jail and you think this kind of story would result in jail time for the little old lady?

Having a restricted weapon (a handgun) loaded in any place other than an approved range is an offense under the Criminal Code....if I remember correctly, one having a mandatory sentence of two years.

Having a restricted weapon accessible (unsafely stored) is also an offense..........it must be trigger locked and stored in a locked container, with the ammunition stored separately.....or stored in a safe designed for firearms. Obviously, if Granny had immediate access, the weapon was not safely stored in the manner laid out in Canadian law.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc...nchorbo-ga:s_6
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc...alse#codese:15
Sorry Tracy, but like most Canadians uninvolved in shooting, you have no idea how ludicrous, or how onerous Canadian gun laws really are.
Last edited by Colpy; Aug 20th, 2008 at 10:42 AM..
 
tracy
#17
I know the laws are often silly. I also know that laws are broken everyday without charges being laid or convictions being obtained. The letter of the law and its application are two very different things.

Again, look at that man in Quebec. He actually killed a cop and injured another and was found not guilty in court because he said he thought they were criminals breaking in. Do you really think a prosecutor is going to waste time trying to throw an old lady in jail for something like this? That's just silly.
 
karrie
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

Ironically, if someone else was to tell me the story above that I've just shared, I'm not sure
that I'd believe them, and would be thinking in the back of my mind that they must have
somehow provoked or incited...

To play devil's advocate a bit, it sounds like your dogs are provocation to begin with. While you were telling the story I couldn't help but picture you as coming off, almost instantly, as threatening and dangerous through the possession of violent animals that you can barely contain or control (from the way you describe your having to sneak out to not let them out, etc). If I were an officer, what you describe of you leaving the yard would have had me unsettled and waiting for confrontation from the get go.
 
Ron in Regina
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

To play devil's advocate a bit, it sounds like your dogs are provocation to begin with. While you were telling the story I couldn't help but picture you as coming off, almost instantly, as threatening and dangerous through the possession of violent animals that you can barely contain or control (from the way you describe your having to sneak out to not let them out, etc). If I were an officer, what you describe of you leaving the yard would have had me unsettled and waiting for confrontation from the get go.

Would you honestly consider that justification for what I described. My dogs where inside
of my six foot fence line, and I ensured that they stayed there. A dog barking behind a
fence just doesn't justify assaulting a member of the Public by Law Enforcement in my
opinion...but that's just my opinion.

I am not a victim. Please don't look at me as one as I don't see myself as one. I did need
to vent last night and this was useful, and it's an interesting comparison between the very
different cultures (in some respects) between the USA and Canada, with respect to how
the Great-Great Grandma with a gun was treated, and myself last night with how things
transpired. Going forward...Good on Granny!
 
Colpy
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by tracyView Post

I know the laws are often silly. I also know that laws are broken everyday without charges being laid or convictions being obtained. The letter of the law and its application are two very different things.

Again, look at that man in Quebec. He actually killed a cop and injured another and was found not guilty in court because he said he thought they were criminals breaking in. Do you really think a prosecutor is going to waste time trying to throw an old lady in jail for something like this? That's just silly.

He was found not guilty by a jury, much to the disappointment of the prosecutors, etc.

in Firearms Law, often the onus is on the offender to prove themselves not guilty......and, I promise, if some little old lady was keeping a loaded handgun ready for defense, she WOULD be charged....
 
karrie
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

Would you honestly consider that justification for what I described. My dogs where inside
of my six foot fence line, and I ensured that they stayed there. A dog barking behind a
fence just doesn't justify assaulting a member of the Public by Law Enforcement in my
opinion...but that's just my opinion.
I am not a victim. Please don't look at me as one as I don't see myself as one. I did need
to vent last night and this was useful, and it's an interesting comparison between the very
different cultures (in some respects) between the USA and Canada, with respect to how
the Great-Great Grandma with a gun was treated, and myself last night with how things
transpired. Going forward...Good on Granny!

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
assaulting a member of the public... I'm sorry, you made it sound like you were pinned, not assaulted. I mustn't have read it thoroughly, I didn't realize it had come to blows. It did sound like you got some especially assholish cops alright. But... well... take a look at some of the videos of the stellar officers coming out of the US, and then try to tell me that it's a Canadian problem. While the law might look more kindly on granny with a gun, the police and the law ARE two separate entities.
 
Ron in Regina
#22
I'm sorry if what I said might has mislead to assuming that it came to blows, as it
did not. I was very compliant and allowed myself to be thrown down and pinned as I am a
law abiding citizen and wasn't going to resist until I was able to sort the matter out.

I had a 6" height advantage and about an 80lb weight advantage on this officer, and she
didn't use leverage to an extent that I would have gone down if I decided I wasn't going down.
Her swinging around on my forearm wouldn't have helped the situation much. I complied. Even
with me on my belly and with her knee in my back, I could have gotten up at any time if the
situation warranted it. I use the term assault in that, if I put my hands on you and attempted
to throw you to the ground, I would be guilty of assault. Nothing will come of this and I'm not
going to file a complaint as I understand how the system works.

People like this officer will weed themselves out, in that the next person she attempts this
with may not be law abiding or compliant in respect to her badge. If not the next, then the next,
or the next...
 
karrie
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

People like this officer will weed themselves out, in that the next person she attempts this
with may not be law abiding or compliant in respect to her badge. If not the next, then the next,
or the next...

I think (even though you may disagree), that the general assumption is that a man who shows up with angry dogs and a pipe in hand is NOT a law abiding citizen like yourself. While you have one thing in your mind regarding how you live your life and how you portray yourself, and you know what is going on in your mind because of the circumstances of the evening, the unfortunate part of being an officer is that they aren't mind readers, and often aren't heading to a scene with enough info. You're right that it will likely end up getting them weeded out. Sad but true.
 
tracy
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

He was found not guilty by a jury, much to the disappointment of the prosecutors, etc.

in Firearms Law, often the onus is on the offender to prove themselves not guilty......and, I promise, if some little old lady was keeping a loaded handgun ready for defense, she WOULD be charged....

We'll have to agree to disagree. I find it entirely unlikely that a prosecutor would be stupid enough to lay charges that he couldn't possibly win against someone with no criminal record or intent. I've never heard of it happening in a case like this. The alleged drug dealer was a bit different since his actions actually resulted in a cop's death, but even he was let off. A little old lady who didn't kill anyone doing 2 years in jail? I'd love to see an example of that, but something tells me there isn't one because it's ridiculous.

I find your attitude is a bit like Americans I meet who are convinced that the government is out to get them but protect the "bad" people. It seems like a persecution complex that many conservative talking heads promote (whether it be against Christians, pro-lifers, white people, men, gun owners or whatever). I just don't see the decent majority being so in danger of the law or the government or the cops.
 
Ron in Regina
#25
Yeah...I didn't show up anywhere as I was at home. Oh well...and I can see both sides but
this really played out badly. From the badge#'s (high 6's & low 7's) I could tell that these where
both new-ish officers even without their conduct and behavior. Either they'll smarten up or they'll
weed themselves out, or someone will weed them out. I'm sure this would have played out very
differently if a rookie was teamed with a veteran, and not two newbies that where much smaller
that I am. I didn't get a chance to see badge numbers until I was coming up off the ground.

Karrie, I respect your opinion and your perceptions. I learned as a young man to loose the chip
off my shoulder (I think all men get one late in their teenage years) as there was always going
to be someone out their bigger and badder. These two rookies just haven't learned that lesson
yet, and a badge and a gun do not necessarily make anyone bigger and badder.

I do perceive myself as a right leaning (mostly Conservative with some Liberal ideals thrown in),
pro-law enforcement Citizen of Canada. These Officers must not have perceived me in the same
light. Luckily, I bounce very well. No big thing. I did have an unhealthy dose of righteous indignation
last night, but in the light of day, no big thing. I hope these rookies lose their chips off their shoulders
before it costs them their lives, or someone else's. Still, kudos' to Granny!
 
lone wolf
#26
Hell of it is, a lot of our cops ARE too badge-heavy for their fellow officers' goods.
 
shadowshiv
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by tracyView Post

We'll have to agree to disagree. I find it entirely unlikely that a prosecutor would be stupid enough to lay charges that he couldn't possibly win against someone with no criminal record or intent. I've never heard of it happening in a case like this. The alleged drug dealer was a bit different since his actions actually resulted in a cop's death, but even he was let off. A little old lady who didn't kill anyone doing 2 years in jail? I'd love to see an example of that, but something tells me there isn't one because it's ridiculous.

I find your attitude is a bit like Americans I meet who are convinced that the government is out to get them but protect the "bad" people. It seems like a persecution complex that many conservative talking heads promote (whether it be against Christians, pro-lifers, white people, men, gun owners or whatever). I just don't see the decent majority being so in danger of the law or the government or the cops.

Colpy is correct. I asked my dad tonight(a retired OPP officer) who stated that if she did this in Canada she would most likely get charged. And it would not be the police "out to get her", it would be the inane laws that Canada has with regards to guns. Criminals do not care about the gun registry, or anything else the government cooks up to "lessen crime". It is very sad, but it is true.
 

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