Texas execution sparks international legal debate

[Praxius]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/06/us-execution-mexico.html

Authorities in Texas have carried out the execution of a Mexican man in defiance of the International Court of Justice in The Hague, in a case legal analysts said could have implications for U.S. citizens travelling abroad.

Jose Medellin, 33, who was convicted of the rape and murder of two teenage girls in Houston in 1993, was executed late Tuesday after he lost his last-minute appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"I'm sorry my actions caused you pain," Medellin told the teens' parents late Tuesday before being executed by lethal injection in Huntsville. "I hope this brings you the closure that you seek."

Elizabeth Pena, 16, and Jennifer Ertman, 14, both of Houston, were gang raped, beaten and strangled in June 1993. Their remains were found four days later.

The brother of one of the gang members, disgusted to learn about his sibling's involvement in the attack, tipped police, leading to the arrest of Medellin and others.

Medellin's appeal to the top court relates to the Vienna Convention, an international treaty the U.S. signed that gives detained foreigners the right to consular help from their government.

The International Court of Justice, known also as the World Court, has argued that never happened in the case of Medellin and some 50 other Mexicans on death row in the United States.

U.S. President George W. Bush asked the states to review the cases, but the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year that neither the president nor the international court could force Texas to wait.
Death row inmate came to U.S. at age 3

Texas authorities argued Medellin, who came to the U.S. when he was three years old and grew up in Houston, never sought Mexican consular protections until four years after he was arrested. By then, he already had been tried for capital murder, convicted and condemned.

But international legal researcher Mark Warren said there are greater issues at stake, and that as a result of the execution, other countries would no longer be obliged to offer Americans the protection laid out in the treaty.

"I think the U.S. is in a very difficult position now because of the obstruction and belligerence of the state of Texas," he said.

But Ted Poe, a Republican congressman from Texas, told CBC News that the case is a matter of sovereignty.

"The Supreme Court has ruled according to our law and constitution that none of those entities have any say as to what takes place in Texas," Poe said.

Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said it sent a note of protest to the U.S. State Department about Medellin's case.

The statement said officials "were concerned for the precedent that [the execution] may create for the rights of Mexican nationals who may be detained in that country."

A bill to implement the international court's ruling wasn't introduced in Congress until last month. The Texas legislature doesn't meet until January.

Medellin was one of five to get the death penalty for the killings of Pena and Ertman.

Derrick O'Brien was executed two years ago. Peter Cantu, described as the ringleader of the group, is awaiting execution, but a date has not been set.

Well there you go... I guess it's open season on US Citizens abroad.

 

[Risus]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/06/us-execution-mexico.html



Well there you go... I guess it's open season on US Citizens abroad.

Whats good for the goose.....

 

[karrie]

That's a scary precedent. I wonder if their citizens realize that their courts just essentially said that revenge is worth more than their safety?

 

[missile]

I believe that we live in one of the few countries where Americans can visit in relative safety and do not understand how a person can live in Texas all those years and still think of himself as a mexican national. As for executing him..3 cheers for Texas!

 

[thomaska]

The guy tortured, and raped two teenage girls for over an hour, then kicked them to death. Then when one of them showed a faint sign of life, he and his buddies, of which another had already been sent to hell by Texas a few years ago, strangled them both with a belt, "just to be sure". And he readily bragged about it to whoever would listen, and confessed to the police that he did it too.

So allll the "hubbub" is over whether or not he got to talk to his Consulate, like that would have made a bit of difference. In Texas, you see, if you like to rape torture, and kill folks, we like to kill you back. We're fair like that.

So a big "F.U" goes out to you liberal weenies( if the shoe fits, wear it), and in case you hadn't noticed, its pretty much open season on us anyways. We're used to it.

Not sure who this International Court is, but they can go pound sand in their ass too.

 

[tracy]

Really, I think the fact that he never asked for consular protection is the issue. This is a technicality his lawyer came up with long after he'd already been sentenced. We're talking about someone who has been in the US since he was a toddler.

I don't believe in the death penalty in general, but I see this for what it is: a muderer's hail mary on a technicality that has no real substance.

 

[Praxius]

Oh I couldn't give a rats ass what happed to this guy, he had it coming..... but the technicalities of the whole situation can start a big stink when it comes to US citizens living abroad and not being able to be protected by the US.

Of course Harper already is practicing this with Omar in Cuba.... so if he's going to be left to the dogs based on the information surrounding that case, then I guess we can treat US citizens the same way.

And if Harper in any of those cases shows compassion to any US citizens.... I'll be the first to kick him in his hypocritical nads.

 

[thomaska]

Oh I couldn't give a rats ass what happed to this guy, he had it coming..... but the technicalities of the whole situation can start a big stink when it comes to US citizens living abroad and not being able to be protected by the US.

Of course Harper already is practicing this with Omar in Cuba.... so if he's going to be left to the dogs based on the information surrounding that case, then I guess we can treat US citizens the same way.

And if Harper in any of those cases shows compassion to any US citizens.... I'll be the first to kick him in his hypocritical nads.

So, when should we expect the first bus load of all those military deserters hiding out in Canada, to show up at Ft Leavenworth?

 

[missile]

I've read of many cases where Americans were railroaded into mexican jails and treated very badly, so this is just giving a bit back at them. The drug cartels have been shooting at Texans since before there was a Texas..in some ways, the war never really ended.

 

[Nuggler]

The guy tortured, and raped two teenage girls for over an hour, then kicked them to death. Then when one of them showed a faint sign of life, he and his buddies, of which another had already been sent to hell by Texas a few years ago, strangled them both with a belt, "just to be sure". And he readily bragged about it to whoever would listen, and confessed to the police that he did it too.

So allll the "hubbub" is over whether or not he got to talk to his Consulate, like that would have made a bit of difference. In Texas, you see, if you like to rape torture, and kill folks, we like to kill you back. We're fair like that.

So a big "F.U" goes out to you liberal weenies( if the shoe fits, wear it), and in case you hadn't noticed, its pretty much open season on us anyways. We're used to it.

Not sure who this International Court is, but they can go pound sand in their ass too.

___________________________

Double that for me, Thomaska. Except, up here, we never know if we got the right perp er not. We like the cops to arrest ya then build a case from whatever. Like if you're funny looking, or act "weird", or homeless, or black, or sort of off white, or Indian.............

BUT, if yer sure you got the perp, killem dead as you can...........damn straight!!! They won't do it again, eh

Damn, I shoulda been a Texan.

8OYippee?

 

[coldstream]

There is no jurisdiction that has the death penalty that would not execute someone for this horrific a crime. As i understand it, Medellin had only a legalistic definition of citizenship with Mexico, having lived in the U.S. since age 3. He did not raise the issue of his citizenship at his arrest, or trial. It was his obligation to inform them and request consultation, rather than the onus of the state to determine his status, which was not obvious in the circumstances. I'm sure if he had he would have been allowed to consult with the Mexican consulate. I believe that is standard procedure these days, if only to avoid this legal complications later on. It's very difficult see how they could have possibly changed the outcome in any event.

This only came out as a possible route to commutation later on, after his other appeals started to run out. A last effort, to bring international pressure to bear. I am supporter of the sovereignty and integrity of nation's justice systems, providing there is rule of law. It is the responsibility of alien visitors to acquaint themselves with those laws and conduct themselves accordingly. Although i'm sure Medellin knew the gravity of his crime. He just thought that the gang code of silence, rather than foreign citizenship, would protect him. I'm not really a supporter of the death penalty, but if anyone deserved it, it was Medellin. And the persons to mourn in this case is not Jose, but those two young girls he helped kill.

 

[Praxius]

So, when should we expect the first bus load of all those military deserters hiding out in Canada, to show up at Ft Leavenworth?

They haven't commited any crimes in Canada that I'm currently aware of, so that question is irrelevent.

Nice reach attempt though.... but I don't see how Canada has any responsibility to prosecute them for the US... let alone do the dirty work for the US by sending them back.

The situation is related to people from one country, commiting a crime inside another, and facing the penalties of those crimes based on that country's laws. I don't see your connection.

 

[coldstream]

They are scheduled to execute someone else today in Brownsville. Heliberto Chi convicted of killling a shop supervisor in a botched 2001 robbery. He too was a foreign national, Honduran, who was not informed of his right to consular consulation. Now it seems there were a couple of extremely aggravating circumstances in Medellin's case. It involved both gang rape and brutal torture of 2 minor girls. It's true that the shop employee was just as dead as those girls, but the circumstances here seem less aggravating than those for Medellin, in that an armed robbery does not involve a necessary predisposition to murder, although the threat is obviously there.

If you have a death penalty, then it needs to be applied in an exemplary way, treating any extenuating circumstances that might warrant mercy with real seriousness. Texas has never done that. Its Clemency and Pardon Board has NEVER recommended mercy to the Governor, which makes the process a joke. If the process is not seen as fair enough to discriminate between levels of aggravation, then its deterrent effect is lessened. With executions occurring in assembly line fashion in Texas, not only is the deterrence lost, but people simply stop paying any attention to them. There's far less coverage of this execution, because the circumstances around it are much less horrific. And frankly because it doesn't have the same popular appeal in America of giving the finger to the International Court of Justice. Once all mercy has been leeched from the system, then the process is about vengeance, not justice.

 

[scratch]

They are scheduled to execute someone else today in Brownsville. Heliberto Chi convicted of killling a shop supervisor in a botched 2001 robbery. He too was a foreign national, Honduran, who was not informed of his right to consular consulation. Now it seems there were a couple of extremely aggravating circumstances in Medellin's case. It involved both gang rape and brutal torture of 2 minor girls. It's true that the shop employee was just as dead of those girls, but the circumstances here seem less aggravating than those for Medellin, in that an armed robbery does not involve a necessary predisposition to murder, although the threat is obviously there.

It you have a death penalty, then it needs to be applied in an exemplary way, treating any extenuating circumstances that might warrant mercy with real seriousness. Texas has never done that. Its Clemency and Pardon Board has NEVER recommended mercy to the Governor, which makes the process a joke. If the process is not seen as fair enough to discriminate between levels of aggravation, then its deterrent effect is lessened. With executions occurring in assembly line fashion in Texas, not only is the deterrence lost, but people simply stop paying any attention to them. There's far less coverage of this execution, because the circumstances around it are much less horrific. And frankly because it doesn't have the popular appeal in America of giving the finger to the International Court of Justice. If the deterrence is lost, then the process is about vengeance, not justice.

Busharoo state. He loves executions. I don't think he knows what clemency means. Love the 'Roo way. Not!

 

[Scott Free]

If Texas doesn't want to obey the law and their treaties then they will be treated like criminals. I feel sorry for any Americans that get themselves in trouble in a like minded country; say Iran or somewhere.

 

[Praxius]

If Texas doesn't want to obey the law and their treaties then they will be treated like criminals. I feel sorry for any Americans that get themselves in trouble in a like minded country; say Iran or somewhere.

Exactly my point.

 

[thomaska]

They haven't commited any crimes in Canada that I'm currently aware of, so that question is irrelevent.

Nice reach attempt though.... but I don't see how Canada has any responsibility to prosecute them for the US... let alone do the dirty work for the US by sending them back.

The situation is related to people from one country, commiting a crime inside another, and facing the penalties of those crimes based on that country's laws. I don't see your connection.

K..sorry didnt realize you thought that Mexicans raping/murdering Americans shouldn't get the needle like Americans raping/murdering Americans..but whatever..**** Bush! (Right?)

Didn't expect you to get it anyways.

But you did say something like "Exactly my point" about treaties and laws and stuff just above this didn't you?

Hmm.

 

[thomaska]

If Texas doesn't want to obey the law and their treaties then they will be treated like criminals. I feel sorry for any Americans that get themselves in trouble in a like minded country; say Iran or somewhere.

If the rest of you want to bend over and take it in the Schitter from some court with absoultely no authority whatsoever, then by al means..lube it up!

And if one of us does go about raping and murdering teenage girls...to hell with them..maybe Iran could dish out some of that humane stoning stuff..which would be too nice in my opinion anyways....

One more edit..lol...If an American so much as flicked a booger on the f'ing sidewalk in Iran it would be an f'ing international incident....your example country is crap...like killing that Mexican is suddenly going to make everyone hate us...think we are there already..but at least we have all the right sort of folks hating us.

By the way, Texas has signed no treaties with any Foreign government..we can't...its kinda aginst the law here.

 

[Zzarchov]

Oh I couldn't give a rats ass what happed to this guy, he had it coming..... but the technicalities of the whole situation can start a big stink when it comes to US citizens living abroad and not being able to be protected by the US.

Of course Harper already is practicing this with Omar in Cuba.... so if he's going to be left to the dogs based on the information surrounding that case, then I guess we can treat US citizens the same way.

And if Harper in any of those cases shows compassion to any US citizens.... I'll be the first to kick him in his hypocritical nads.

The only time US citizens abroad are allowed protection by the US is if the country in question has reason to appease the US anyways.

Its no different than say Cuba allowing Canadian citizens consular visits, as long as they want our tourist dollars it will happen.

 

[talloola]

Really, I think the fact that he never asked for consular protection is the issue. This is a technicality his lawyer came up with long after he'd already been sentenced. We're talking about someone who has been in the US since he was a toddler.

I don't believe in the death penalty in general, but I see this for what it is: a muderer's hail mary on a technicality that has no real substance.

Yeah, I was thinking the same, he's no mexican, he's an american, and has been in the
u.s. since he was 3, and the rest, as you described above, leaves him to die, as he should, and did,
for his crime.