End Aboriginal payments by gov'ts

[dumpthemonarchy]

I think aboriginals shouild no longer get any money from gov'ts. Most of their councils are not democratic and perpetuate their hardship. Aboriginals have traditional systems of governance that you would find in Asia or Africa. Isn't the Cdn army in Afhgan to promote democracy? I heard a Tory pol say such things on TV. Why are we paying for undemocratic regimes in Canada? Don't we believe in freedom, democracy, liberty and progress for all peoples in the world?

Treaties? Made in the 17th-19th centuries when non-white people were considered inferior. I say five to ten more years of payments and then, it's over. No money.Turn the reserves into municipailities where anyone can vote and the elected council governs.

 

[karrie]

a move like that could mean war.

 

[tracy]

It'll never happen.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

War? In the peaceable kingdom? Ha, too much inertia here. Don't bother the little people. Democracy? Barely heard of it.

This would mean a serious debate in the country, which during elections and anytime else, does not happen these days. Yet Canada says it supports human rights. Most of the time I guess, when it's not too much of a hassle. Lecture China, but ignore abuses in Canada on reserves with Indians.

 

[Nuggler]

It'll never happen.

Not likely. Not soon, anyway.

I really don't know where I stand on this. Not that it matters. But it hurts to see a people so badly screwed over, both by their own chiefs, and us.

Personally I think they are inculcated with what to say, re: ancient hunting/burial/tribal/laws, grounds, living in the old way; to ensure a steady flow of cash. Of which. The ordinary native likely sees very little.

And so the cycle repeats...........just goddam terrible, and "we" would be up in arms if something so *obvious* was happening to us................I hope.

**Not that our own govt. ain't doin it to us, but it's not as *obvious*.............:sad1:

 

[karrie]

I see more and more native families doing this for themselves. Moving off the reservations and choosing to not apply for treaty status for their children. Integrating. It's a great way to go, IMO. It's great to see people live side by side as neighbors, instead of separated.

But, that is by choice. I don't think we can say 'hey that worked for them', and just wipe out the reservations for the rest, or stop the treaty payments, without causing a total uproar. They're not children to be told what WE see fitting for them. The white men did that to them once already, doing it a second time to turn their lives upside down yet again would just be ridiculous.

 

[tracy]

Some would argue that throwing money at people because of their race is also a way of infantilizing them ("They can't survive on their own, we need to look after them" kind of thinking).

 

[karrie]

Some would argue that throwing money at people because of their race is also a way of infantilizing them ("They can't survive on their own, we need to look after them" kind of thinking).

Which is exactly what I meant when I said that they'd had it done once already.

Taking it away again is just the flip side of the coin. "I decided you're not good with the allowance I promised you Jimmy."

Change needs to come from within, not from nannying white folks trying to decide what's best for them, or best for our pocketbooks. Urgh... that sounds way grumpier than I mean it to, but I can't think of a better way to say it. lol.

 

[tracy]

Taking it away again is just the flip side of the coin. "I decided you're not good with the allowance I promised you Jimmy.".

Maybe, or maybe it's recognizing that Jimmy doesn't get an allowance anymore because he's a grownup and doesn't need it. My parents stopped giving me an allowance because I got a job and was mature enough to pay my own way. It had nothing to do with how I spent the money.

 

[MHz]

I think aboriginals shouild no longer get any money from gov'ts.

They wouldn't need it if the Gov released all the royalty money they are due. The land they were left with included mineral rights that belonged solely to them, not some scraps that they have been handed over the last few decades, every nickle before the Gov tax breaks for big oil kick in, that would also include royalties for water that is withheld from their land (water held back by dams and/or given to the oil companies)
Those payments would be 100's of times higher than what they receive now.

 

[karrie]

Maybe, or maybe it's recognizing that Jimmy doesn't get an allowance anymore because he's a grownup and doesn't need it. My parents stopped giving me an allowance because I got a job and was mature enough to pay my own way. It had nothing to do with how I spent the money.

I hit the point where I said 'thanks, I don't need it anymore'. That's my only real point is that the way this is so often presented is 'native councils are corrupt', 'natives drink it all', 'natives have drug and gambling problems', therefore we should stop paying the treaties because they're doing something 'wrong'. That's the wrong way to go about it.

 

[tracy]

I guess I just see it differently because I don't think fault matters. It doesn't matter if aboriginals are "wrong" or not. The act of giving money hasn't produced good results, so trying something else would seem to be a reasonable idea. I don't think we will mind you. I'm sure your kids' kids will still wonder how problems on the reserves could be helped.

I also wonder how many people will honestly choose to turn down free money ever. I see people here that have relied on the system their entire lives with no end in sight. Then they have kids who continue the cycle. I also see the resentment it causes. I don't know what the answer is, but I know that what we've been doing isn't working all that well

 

[gerryh]

people REALLY should read their history.... read the treaties........ and if their not willing to do that....then shut the f*ck up when it comes to Native Issues and government "payments".

 

[lone wolf]

Reading the treaty is one thing. Understanding the hundred interpretations couched in the legalese flowerspeak is another. "Yours as long as the waters run free..." could mean as long as there's no dam on the river. Then, how many generations does this four-beaver-pelt blanket payment cover? The people who lost something they could actually walk upon are gone now. All that's left are the debates over words less clear than a Bible.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Yeah. long wolf, right, the treaties mean whatever the gov't of the day says they mean. Which usually means Indians just languish as before because the gov't has to give them as little as possible. Who in this world survives as an adult, by getting money from other adults for not working? Very few. Taxpayers just feel negatively about it all and the problem staggers on.

In the US, Indians got treaties after they were soundly defeated, which cultures can accept because you win some and you lose some. In Canada, it's never over because the British governors and Indians made treaties that never acknowledge any defeat to set a tone. Defeat is de facto of course but not de jure. The law is important.

Time for a clean break from the past and put aboriginal reserves on the road to democracy. We can get democracy sooner in Canada on reserves than in Afghanistan.

 

[Risus]

I would like to know where all the money they are getting from the casinos is going. The people who need it aren't getting it...

 

[stopnativefunds]

We need to end this , for CANADA and most important our children and for the future of the native population
There are 2 groups = Canadians and the natives , they want equal rights, yet they want special treatment they want money and more money and they blame everyone else for there people stealing there money
This has to stop and our generation is the one who will start the movement to
End Native Funding = E.N.F =Enough
why will my grand children need to pay for something that happened before there time , ?
whether it was 200 years ago or 20 years ago it was inevitable that someone was going to come here to build on this land
We’ve all seen refugees from a 3 world country with there families that are working 2 jobs and going to university and yet they are doing it
we are creating generations of welfare recipients (hence creating more problems)
free housing , no tax, free skidoos, free trucks , money from there bands for school
　
We are collecting new paper articles of racist comments from chiefs blaming the "white man " for there problems and anything else that pertains to your cause
Please email EndNativeFunding@yahoo.ca
if you want to join this isn’t a racist movement its a movement for the greater good of tomorrow of Canada and its people E.N.F is enough
we might be rough around the edges but we have a point so spread the word

 

[Machjo]

I think aboriginals shouild no longer get any money from gov'ts. Most of their councils are not democratic and perpetuate their hardship. Aboriginals have traditional systems of governance that you would find in Asia or Africa. Isn't the Cdn army in Afhgan to promote democracy? I heard a Tory pol say such things on TV. Why are we paying for undemocratic regimes in Canada? Don't we believe in freedom, democracy, liberty and progress for all peoples in the world?

Treaties? Made in the 17th-19th centuries when non-white people were considered inferior. I say five to ten more years of payments and then, it's over. No money.Turn the reserves into municipailities where anyone can vote and the elected council governs.

I fully agree. We ought ot rescind out treaties with them, pull out and move off of their historical lands, and then let them sink or swim on their own

 

[JLM]

people REALLY should read their history.... read the treaties........ and if their not willing to do that....then shut the f*ck up when it comes to Native Issues and government "payments".

There's one main problem with treaties, the ones who made them aren't the only ones who are obligated by them. I don't like dead people deciding where my money is being spent. :smile:

a move like that could mean war.

The best situation of course would be that we are all "Canadians" with equal opportunity, responsibility and benefits. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. :smile:

 

[Cannuck]

people REALLY should read their history.... read the treaties........ and if their not willing to do that....then shut the f*ck up when it comes to Native Issues and government "payments".

Treaties became irrelevant once these so-called nations latch on to the public tit and refused to let go.